Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

DOJ Wants ISPs to Retain All Customer Records

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the keeping-tabs dept.

doubledoh writes "CNET reports that the Department of Justice is 'quietly shopping around' the idea of requiring ISP's to retain all data of their customer's online activities for at least several months. The SEC already mandates that publicly traded firms retain all company emails for at least 2 years, but it looks like John Q. Public may also soon be subject to similar Constitutional violations. Big Brother, here we come."

13 of 471 comments (clear)

  1. Libraries? by XanC · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I wonder if this would extend to libraries, since they specifically continue to include Internet access from libraries in PATRIOT stuff.

    Does this mean I have to start snooping on my patrons, even if I don't currently? At the moment, I don't even store who's using the machines, let alone browsing habits.

  2. Sure thing by jleq · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the government tries to make that happen, the ISPs and users of the world will shout out a resounding "Fuck You". Not only is that invasion of privacy, it is technologically very difficult to store such a massive amount of information.

    I just love it when people try to regulate something that they know nothing about.

  3. So if I build my own internet by putko · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So if I build my own private internet, and don't connect it to the real internet, am I free of the logging requirement?

    How about if I have my own virtual internet, running on top of the real internet? Do I become a virtual ISP and then I have to keep logs?

    What if I don't use the same physical protocol to move bits? E.g. instead of volatages on a wire, I used morse code or smoke signals -- do I then esacpe the logging requirement?

    How big can a LAN/WAN be before it becomes the internet (assuming it isn't connected to the unfree Al Gore created internetwork)?

    What if the information is not contained in the protocols, but some side-channel? Do I, as an ISP (virtual or otherwise), have the duty to discover and provide "side-channel" logs?

    --
    http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_s tone_your_children/dt21_18a.html
  4. A return to the "Black Chambers"? by N+Monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the idea of requiring ISP's to retain all data of their customer's online activities for at least several months. The SEC already mandates that publicly traded firms retain all company emails for at least 2 years

    AHH! At last! A valid reason for SPAM. Clog up the backups...

    Seriously though, surely to be thorough this would also require the post office to steam open and photocopy all correspondence? It'd be a return to the so-called Black Chambers that once existed in the US and Europe that opened dipolomatic letters.

  5. Should check out Penn & Teller by sgant · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Their latest "Bullshit" episode deals directly with the US Patriot act and crap like this. It's pretty interesting, their take on all of this.

    --

    "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
  6. Re:For the benefit of the non-US people here by putaro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You said the right words - don't you think that this is an unlawful search and seizure?

    Amendment IV - Search and seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

  7. At least we have tor by rasteri · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Thankfully, technologies like tor render any ISP's logging capabilities, even if they were to log every single packet, completely useless. You can even run some p2p apps through it.

    (Before I used it, I assumed it would be too slow to use. Boy was I wrong - I hardly even notice the difference in web browsing).

  8. Re:glad i don't live in america by daikokatana · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Not quite. I know someone who works for a large ISP in Belgium, and we've had a very lengthy discussion on this topic.

    At the moment, systems are in please so that they can MONITOR everything that is sent out onto the network.

    The article however, speaks of retaining the information, in other words storing everything.

    I myself work for a hosting company: we host several websites (not much) internally, they generate a total of 18GB log files averaged per day! I cannot imagine storing them for years and years to come.

    --
    http://jcsnippets.atspace.com/ - a collection of Java & C# snippets
  9. Re:Log size? by phulshof · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As storage technology improves, so will network technology, which means that what can be logged now is what can be logged later. Now for why it's too costly:
    1. Divide the profit of an avarage large ISP by its amount of customers.
    2. Calculate the cost of storing the avarage data throughput of a client per 3 months.
    3. Be astonished on how many years of company profits will go into setting up this system.
    4. Wonder how on earth you're going to search through such a huge data storage.
    5. ?
    6. Profit!

  10. Re:Log size? by arivanov · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While both of them improve, Jo average speed of typing and speed of perception does not. As a result while the amount of data grows (flash, animations, video), the amount of items remains relatively constant (or grows at a much slowlier rate). Do not forget that the DOJ (or its equivalent elsewhere) can subpoena the data from the source or destination or both. Hence all it needs to see at the ISP level is that the data has been exchanged. Similarly, the fact that the data has been exchanged is sufficient to subpoena the content (Carnivore anyone?).

    There is plenty of technology to do this now. No need for storage improvement. They can get it now and they are likely to get it.

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  11. Has this been used? by Reverse+Gear · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As far as I know the law has passed in Denmark also.
    I remember some discussions about how small an ISP you have to be to be free from these demands as it is a major expense and even worse for small ISP's.
    I think the limit for this was set to 1000 customers here in Denmark, but I may remember this wrongly.

    Does anyone know about these systems being used by the police etc. in the countries where this has been implemented?

  12. No problem by williamhooligan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm all for it. Provided that the DOJ is similarly obliged to log and deliver to my inbox a notification that someone in the DOJ has mentioned considering making me the subject of an investigation, so that I can run away and change my name. Also, if I get apprehended and the case goes to trial, I want the log of every jury member, prosecutor and member of the judiciary subpoenaed and presented as evidence for the defence. I'd happily be imprisoned for a cause I believe in, but I'll be damned if I'm being convicted by someone that likes shopping for antique furniture and goat porn.

  13. Re:Is it a Constitutional violation? by Peldor · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Actually he'll say, "Daddy, I can't believe you're still bitching about freedom-this and freedom-that. That hippy shit died out in the 2000's. Get over it you old fart, and give me $200 for a movie."

    Properly indoctrinated, he won't even believe in the value of your freedoms.

    I love a good dystopia!