DOJ Wants ISPs to Retain All Customer Records

doubledoh writes "CNET reports that the Department of Justice is 'quietly shopping around' the idea of requiring ISP's to retain all data of their customer's online activities for at least several months. The SEC already mandates that publicly traded firms retain all company emails for at least 2 years, but it looks like John Q. Public may also soon be subject to similar Constitutional violations. Big Brother, here we come."

Comments

Libraries?

[XanC]

I wonder if this would extend to libraries, since they specifically continue to include Internet access from libraries in PATRIOT stuff.

Does this mean I have to start snooping on my patrons, even if I don't currently? At the moment, I don't even store who's using the machines, let alone browsing habits.

So if I build my own internet

[putko]

So if I build my own private internet, and don't connect it to the real internet, am I free of the logging requirement?

How about if I have my own virtual internet, running on top of the real internet? Do I become a virtual ISP and then I have to keep logs?

What if I don't use the same physical protocol to move bits? E.g. instead of volatages on a wire, I used morse code or smoke signals -- do I then esacpe the logging requirement?

How big can a LAN/WAN be before it becomes the internet (assuming it isn't connected to the unfree Al Gore created internetwork)?

What if the information is not contained in the protocols, but some side-channel? Do I, as an ISP (virtual or otherwise), have the duty to discover and provide "side-channel" logs?

A return to the "Black Chambers"?

[N Monkey]

the idea of requiring ISP's to retain all data of their customer's online activities for at least several months. The SEC already mandates that publicly traded firms retain all company emails for at least 2 years

AHH! At last! A valid reason for SPAM. Clog up the backups...

Seriously though, surely to be thorough this would also require the post office to steam open and photocopy all correspondence? It'd be a return to the so-called Black Chambers that once existed in the US and Europe that opened dipolomatic letters.

Re:For the benefit of the non-US people here

[putaro]

You said the right words - don't you think that this is an unlawful search and seizure?

Amendment IV - Search and seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

At least we have tor

[rasteri]

Thankfully, technologies like tor render any ISP's logging capabilities, even if they were to log every single packet, completely useless. You can even run some p2p apps through it.

(Before I used it, I assumed it would be too slow to use. Boy was I wrong - I hardly even notice the difference in web browsing).

Re:Log size?

[phulshof]

As storage technology improves, so will network technology, which means that what can be logged now is what can be logged later. Now for why it's too costly:
1. Divide the profit of an avarage large ISP by its amount of customers.
2. Calculate the cost of storing the avarage data throughput of a client per 3 months.
3. Be astonished on how many years of company profits will go into setting up this system.
4. Wonder how on earth you're going to search through such a huge data storage.
5. ?
6. Profit!

Re:Log size?

[arivanov]

While both of them improve, Jo average speed of typing and speed of perception does not. As a result while the amount of data grows (flash, animations, video), the amount of items remains relatively constant (or grows at a much slowlier rate). Do not forget that the DOJ (or its equivalent elsewhere) can subpoena the data from the source or destination or both. Hence all it needs to see at the ISP level is that the data has been exchanged. Similarly, the fact that the data has been exchanged is sufficient to subpoena the content (Carnivore anyone?).

There is plenty of technology to do this now. No need for storage improvement. They can get it now and they are likely to get it.