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Open Source Molecules
manganese4 writes "They've been discussed before in relation to Google, but the American Chemical Society has launched a new effort against perceived competitors. They are attempting to limit the government's ability to freely publish the results of scientific work paid for by tax dollars. The British journal Nature and the Univeristy of California reports on efforts by the ACS in attempting to shutdown a free database, PubChem, of molecular structures because it competes head to head with the fee-for-service Chemical Abstract Service. Their rationale is that the government should not spend taxpayer dollars on something private business is already doing. Luckily the government has not backed down."
For instance, private and public health care as well as transportation work very well together.
The owls are not what they seem
Data mining is becoming more and more important for science. But you can't do data mining if the data is locked up and requires cumbersome and costly subscriptions to access.
Chemical, biological, and other scientific databases need to be open, free, and freely redistributable for science and technology to continue to make rapid progress.
Guess we can shut down public schools then, now, eh?
When Osama Bin Laden will apply for US govt to remove and stop funding the US Army, because private parties (him) own private military groups?
Corporate-owned Police, IRS replaced by Mafia, and of course schools under management of MTV. Go Private Property!
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Government shouldn't pay for something that the private sector is already doing. Full stop.
So if I start my own fire brigade I should demand that publicly funded fire fighing be outlawed?
Libraries should be closed since booksellers are missing out on sales?
Private schols certainly have a distorted market with public schools being provided.
Who decides what is critical for the government to provide? Would you not say that health care, for instance, falls under providing safety?
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
The question of whether governments should finance research is a separate issue.
http://redcone.net
A government is an entity which should protect a group of people's interests, namely the citizens of a nation. This includes science.
Also, i believe that scientific knowledge is not even the property of humanity, let alone a corporation. It is fine that they want to sell that information as long as a free choice exists, but when they try to get rid of that free "competition", then we need to take a stand. Science should be open for everyone, the application of science is where companies should strive for profit.
It is possible to consider science the ultimate law of the universe, thus if viewed from this perspective restricting scientific knowledge would be the same as damaging a person's freedom.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Your libertarian ideology, as ever, has little thought for practical matters.
Libertarians argue, for instance, that there should be no public health care and that people should have to pay. Ignoring the fact that it is rather inhumane to demand payment for healing someone, this results in poor people suffering as they cannot afford medical bills. What, exactly, is wrong with a government monopoly over this? By promoting private health care, libertarians are, in effect, causing illness and lowering the life expectency of fellow human beings. I simply say, put yourself in their shoes.
Another example: here in the UK we have the BBC. The BBC's website is probably one of the most linked-to websites from Slashdot, because it is a fantastic public interest resort. It's publically funded. UK citizens, on trips to the US, comment how low quality, and advert-rife, US television is compared to even commercial channels in the UK. This is because the BBC ups the standard and creates a high level for other channels to achieve. Note that the BBC is not the only provider of TV channels!
The government's job is (or should be!) to keep people alive. Sure, this should be done by having a military, police and courts. But everyone loses out if we allow corporations to monopolise fundamental human rights like the most important of all, the right to life.
Libertarianism is too much an ideology, with too little thought for the real world. Please reconsider your views, with more compassion for people who are likely to suffer because of them.
Chris
aterr - an open source threaded discussion board.
Who finds it ironic that Nature charges for access to an article championing free access to information?
www.eissq.com/BandP.html Ball and Plate System. Amuse your friends. Crush your enemies.
You're right. Publicly funded research should be abolished. Nothing that has ever come out of any public university should be available for free. Who needs such things as theory of relativity, quantum theory, Space programs with all the technology coming from it.
Give me abreak...there is too much work that needs to be done, but that no company would do, because it doesn't pay off quickly enough. See, I'm not even saying not paying off. Just not paying off in the same year, or the next year.
See all the hoopla about the cell processor. That was a joint venture of 3 of the biggest private corporations out there...and one of the biggest undertakings of private enterprises. The investment was something like 2 billions, the timeframe was something like 4 years. That is about the most extreme limit any private research and enginieering project would go. Any research, that needs more time and dedication simply wouldn't exist without payment of the gouvernment.
Just because I can imagine doing a hippopotamus, doesn't mean I'd like to do it.
This type of thinking reminds me of Europe in the Middle Ages. Guilds were then allowed to regulate (read monopolise) all branches of industry and trade, backed by government enforcers. Even the most basic information was "trade secret" and not to be revealed to non guildmembers. The perfect job protection scheme, and one of the reasons that Europe was at that time eclipsed by the Arab world in scientific, medical, and technological achievements. I submit that the Government, in looking after the public interest, has every right to support valuable generation (universities) and dissemination (universities and this online service) of knowledge. And since when did the ACS acquire copyright on basic chemical knowledge?
should we also accept that it is the government's job to provide that medicine?
Speaking as someone who has benefited directly and indirectly from a nationalised health service, I say yes, most certainly it is.
Hell, it's rare that I actually require its services, but I don't bergudge the tax I pay to support it at all. Just because *I* don't need it, doesn't mean that my friends and loved ones don't. Even if they don't, people will, and I for one don't mind paying a little extra every month to help make society that little bit better.
Let me ask yo ua question: why must everything be about profit? Why can some things not be done simply because it is the right thing to do?
It's official. Most of you are morons.
That being said it is strange that they are so vehemently against an NIH database which is primary geared towards biological compounds (i.e. proteins and nucleic acids and derivatives) which is pretty orthogonal to most of the chemical research world. But it would be a gross oversimplification to paint the ACS as an evil money grubbing organization.
Besides, chemists are rarely evil. Science fiction proves it's always an overweight doctor come-geneticist played by marlon brando that's evil.
Oh, and I forgot to mention - despite having the NHS here in the UK, we still have a thriving private healthcare system, for those who have the money to pay for it.
Just because the government provides something for the good of all, doesn't mean that companies will find it impossible to make money providing the same thing. It's just like any other form of competition - you just have to find a way to differentiate your offering, and make it more compelling to some section of the target demographic.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Total BS.
You do realize that the government gives grants and scholarships to students right?
I think you have a very naive view of the role of Government. It's not just to play police but also to make sure the various facets of your daily life go smoothly.
Do you like food that doesn't kill you or drugs that are effective? That's the FDA.
Do you like knowing you won't be defrauded by huge companies [*] or investment scams? That's SEC.
Do you like knowing that your kids can go to a school where there are minimal standards that are required to advance? That's another facet of state government.
Do you like driving on roads with street signs and lights?
Do you like electricity that follows north american standards?
Do you like standard cryptography that can protect [**] your banking and medical transactions?
etc, etc, etc...
The government has a hand in many aspects of your daily life that you either ignore or didn't know about.
Yes, all these things could be ran by the CEO of their respective companies. Schools could have their own curriculum and standards. Water plants could have their own levels of "clean enough". etc, etc, etc...
You vote for your government to represent you on these issues. That's why you have NIST for example.
In the case of a chemical database there is no reason why a publicly funded org can't do it. If it's the will of the people then so be it.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
"Their rational is that the government should not spend taxpayer dollars on something private business is already doing"
Of course, you can turn this around: private business shouldn't spend its investor's money on something the government is already doing.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
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