Slashdot Mirror
Court Rules GIS Data Can't Be Kept Secret
Silverbear writes "In an update from a Slashdot story posted in January, The Connecticut Supreme Court has ruled that there is not a significant security risk to the town of Greenwich in making its GIS Data available to the public, and therefore must do so. Greenwich had claimed that the data could compromise personal and national security, and was sued under CT Freedom of Information laws. The legal ruling is available."
I am actually quite surprised this ruling occurred... I was listening to a news story on NPR a couple of days ago about some people taking pictures near bridges/with bridges in the background, or with other things around (like oil refineries, or in one instance, the FBI building was in the background) ... but these people had their film confiscated... ... and that's just for taking pictures casually... but who knows, maybe Conneticuit courts figure "Eh, we're not New York" ...
... I think its ridiculous... but... I am just surprised...
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Not that I think we should be paranoid, I think this hysteria over terrorism is exactly what both sides want (the government gets to take more control and the terrorists get to disrupt our way of life and our happiness)
MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
One of the things Keyhole wanted to do before they were purchased was to integrate real estate data - taxes, boundaries on land parcels, etc - into their database. If Google wants to continue with this, this court ruling could make it easier for them to do so.
At least the courts knew better this time and ruled in favor of open information that the public paid for.
What is it with the "this time" stuff? After a case goes through the full process of being heard, being appealed, and being heard at higher courts, it's reasonably certain that the outcome is correct according to the law. If the courts produce a decision you don't like, then you probably need to look to your lawmakers, not your justices.
Of course, most of the "decisions" that people complain about around here never go to court. i.e. The case procedes as:
1. Person get cease and desist or notices a rights violation.
2. Lots of complaining about how bad the courts are, and how they're all in Bush's/Clinton's/Jimmy Carter's pocket.
3. Case never goes to court, despite the law actually stating the "correct answer".
4. More complaining about how bad the courts are.
Yeash people. Believe it or not, the US court system does tend to work correctly.
Ok, I'm done with my rant now. You can mod me offtopic. (Because I am.)
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
So when you want to dig in your own back yard you can't call the city and say "can I dig here, or will I hit a gas line?" because you might be a terrorist.
Restricting access to information is retarded. Rules should deal with actions, not with information.
Alas, Babylon.
Check out this mosaic'd TerraServer view of the US Capital and Senate / Congressional office buildings in Washington, DC.
I know why people try to horde GIS data here, and I suspect it may be the same in Greenwich. GIS data is extremely expensive to create and work with, because the software involved tends to have very expensive per-user annual fees associated with it.
Now, you're thinking, "but my tax dollars paid that bill!"
Probably, yes. However, the tax dollars are apportioned in different amounts to different groups within government. Some group has to fight hard to justify a budget allocation big enough to cover their GIS software licenses... and they don't want other government groups to reap the benefits without helping to pay for it.
Around here, government departments tend to charge one another huge fees for their GIS output, thus sharing the cost of the software licenses. If they were required to give it to citizens for free (or, for $900), then obviously they wouldn't be able to charge another government department more than that.
So... they might actually have been worried about security. It seems more plausible to me that some guy was just worried that the folks over in the other department would get his data, and he'd be footing the bill with his budget allocation. Passing it off as a security concern just seems like a better way to get higher-ups on board.
The counties accrue negligible additional costs to share GIS data. In fact, probably accrue cost savings. For example, Richland County covering Columbia, South Carolina and the metropolitan areas freely shares its GIS data and allows the public to view housingh information. Housing prices and other information may be delisted but, I believe, are still available from physically visiting the county office. Also, Los Angeles County provides the information freely as well. It will sell the information in a more compact form but the information can be accessible one property at a time from the Internet. I think they try to get you to buy it but suspect the recent court ruling underscores they are required to make this information publicly available. I've run into city and other public officials before who think the government is a business. They'll try to block your business in order to compete. Best thing to do is let them dive in fully and see how hard business truly is and why the government has no business in business.
Expect Freedom.
As a software developer at a GIS company, I can tell you that it's all spatial information. Modern GIS data often includes names & addresss, parcel information, communities, etc.
Basically, think of it as a new kind of database. One that is capable of generating maps.
And just like any other database, it could have who knows what in it. Some information is very private, and some isn't.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
For those joining us from overseas and parts West, Greenwich, Connecticut is among the more -- what's the word? -- 'tony' of digs. Sort of like a Beverly Hills for the New York glitter- and media-rati who don't like the feel of sand between their toes out in the Hamptons.
Generically, Greenwich is one of about 169 municipalities in the state of CT.
Specifically, it has become overrun with the sort of rich people that give rich people a bad name. The sort of charicatures that leftists and arachists always speak of. Snotty, snobbish, self-important, "do-you-know-who-I-am?!" types. The town is firmly in the political hands of these people and the police could care less if you're a renter in an apartment on the main drag (they exist, more of them closer to the NY border), but if you live in places like Belle Haven, they are practically your private soldiers. I used to be harassed by their police as "not looking like" I "belong here" every single night I had third shift maintenance to do on a telecom co-location. Corporate van, uniform, badge, cell phone, manager's contact info, and they still insinuated I looked like I shouldn't be there.
I would take claims of their PD doing racial/ethnic/economic profiling as a given.
I used to work in broadband/telecom down there and when they make impossible demands on "the help" they aren't mere stupid common users. They already pointedly KNOW what they are asking for is improper, they simply expect the laws of physics and reality to be bent for their benefit on their command.
I lost count of the times I was asked to enter through "the servant's entrance" when working there.
You can say this is too harsh, but unless you've experienced the insulting and condescending stares and words from these people yourself, you have no idea. The worst part is, they absolutely do not care about dispelling this image and work very hard to reinforce it.
And are they really this paranoid? Yes. I've been to homes where I was escorted by paid security guards from the front gates through the building and was pointedly told not to look in certain directions. They actually thought they could continue their personal activities in the house right in front of visiting technicians, and MAKE the technician not look in certain directions as if a horse wearing blinders. Several homes even had their man friday duct tape sheets over alarm panels and sensors around the house so I wouldn't see them and thus be able to break in later with that knowledge.
That's what outsiders need to know. If you want examples of really horrendously crazy paranoid snobs like something out of Caddyshack, Greennwich is your place to look.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Is this a first? Authorized and legal duplication of information is being called "theft" here.
"Especially since GIS people put so much work in the converges, then see it taken and abused by the public."
And here is the other thing wrong with your statement. Government road crews put a lot of hard work into building and maintaining roads, don't they? And yet, if it is not a toll road, you will be shocked to find that there are businesses that actually have company cars and trucks using these roads. Such an abuse! And libraries? There are legions of nonfiction authors who research those free library books and then make a profit from the information when they sell their books. I bet you agree that it would be a great improvement if libraries charged $10 for each book checked out! Stop those profiteers from stealing information!
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Actually, the funny thing is that much of what they do is done in the open. Over the years, I have worked on several projects the involved various groups (DARPA, CIA, NSA, and DOD). In several cases, the work was attributed in one context, but was actually used in another. The first time that this was done was at a major university. The 2'nd at a quasi regular job.
Lowers the costs and with all the noise, it makes it hard to tell that it was anything interesting.
As to concern about what they do, I would worry less about what they do, and worry more about allowing the tech. to flow to DOJ( and by extension the FBI). Now, we are moving from what was professional groups (and down the road more autonomy will be restored) to politically-controlled groups. The tools that were available to NSA and CIA just a couple of years ago, will allows for total abuse under Patriot Act (I, II, and future).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Also, some parts of the patriot act have been found unconstitutional.