Pentagon Creating A Database Of Students

needacoolnickname writes "The Washington Post is reporting that the Pentagon is working with a marketing firm to create a database of students ages 16 through college to help them identify recruits. A little chuckle from the Pentagon in the article: '...anyone can opt out of the system by providing detailed personal information that will be kept in a separate suppression file. That file will be matched with the full database regularly to ensure that those who do not wish to be contacted are not, according to the Pentagon.'"

Comments

the draft

[udderly]

When this fails to get enough recruits can the draft be far behind?

Re:the draft

[demachina]

"The military doesn't want the draft. They want more volunteers."

YEA. WHAT HE SAID. And if there aren't enough volunteers, we need to figure out how to "motivate" people to volunteer event if they dont want to :) Is a person a volunteer if they are coerced or tricked in to volunteering.

There is already a well documented trend of the DOD using fine print, trickery and out right coercion to prevent people already in the military and reserves from escaping when their contracted enlistment period is up. For all practical purposes many people already in the military and reserves ARE being drafted because they can't get out when they were supposed to.

Fact is the Army and Marines, their reserves and gaurds ARE missing their recruitment goals by a big margin and are now missing them every month and the popularity of the war in Iraq is plummeting. Eventually the DOD is going to run out of meat for the grinder. The Army and Marines the two services where the bulk of the sitting ducks being sent to Iraq come from. The Navy and Air Force are doing OK mostly because people who want to join the military know thats the best place to be to avoid ending up on the streets in Iraq.

Believe it or not most kids are smart enough to not want to end up in in an ugly urban guerilla war with no end in sight. A war where they would seldom see who is trying to kill them, where most of the natives hate them, and where lots of their peers are coming home in body bags, with burns or without limbs.

The all volunteer army is GREAT as long as you are never in a protracted shooting war, especially one based on lies and with no clear goal or end game. It simply wont work if Iraq turns in to another Vietnam. You simply wont get the volunteers needed to fight a dirty, messy war with no glory. You can get volunteers to race in on the tanks and declare victory in a week. You wont get volunteers to patrol Iraqi streets filled with an enemy you seldom see who are sniping at you and using IED's to blow your legs off.

Dont think it really matters if the military is structured for "volunteers" now. If people stop "volunteering" the DOD is screwed. Its either a full up draft with the political consequence to the people responsible(i.e. the Bush adminstration and the Republicans), back door drafts where you coerce and trick people in to the military and dont let them out which is basicly what we have now(the histroical term is Shanghai'ing people), or you cut and run on places like Iraq, and it probably collapses in to more of a smoldering hole in the ground than it already is and you just wasted half a trillion dollars and tens of thousands of dead and wounded on a failure.

Lucky for little George that he is a lame duck, because at this point it doesn't much matter how bad a job he does, we are stuck with him until 2008 unless someone acquires the balls to impeach him, which he most certainly deserves.

Well, Duh.

[American AC in Paris]

Of course the Pentagon is going to do this kind of thing. They are in desperate need of recruits. They're caught between a rock and a hard place: they're trying to fight a war that is unpopular with the majority of Americans, and a good chunk of those that do support it think that somebody other than themselves and their loved ones should be doing the actual fighting and dying part.

What do you do? Recruit, recruit, recruit like there's no tomorrow. Use every tool you can get your hands on. Raise the "financial incentives" of joining up--even if you were to double a grunt's pay, they'd still be waaaay cheaper than hiring another mercenary. Make lists. Get aggressive. Be persistent. Get every person you can lay your hands on.

One of the following things will most likely happen in the next few years:

1. We'll pour huge amounts of money into hiring more mercenary forces to augment our armed forces;
2. We'll reinstate the draft in one form or another;
3. We'll claim victory, pull our troops out, and hope that the Iraqis can sort it out themselves;
4. We'll claim victory, ensconce a substantial number of troops in hardened, remotely-located permanent bases, and hope that the Iraqis can sort it out themselves;
5. We'll get a massive surge in recruitment and will be able to meet our military needs with a full-strength volunteer service.
6. The insurgency will die and a stable Iraqi government will take hold.

The Pentagon would much rather have a healthy, full-strength, all-volunteer military force than an expensive, byzantine network of "independent contractors" doing more and more grunt work outside the scope of both military and civil law. To this end, they're gonna do everything in their power to meet their recruitment needs--and frankly, creating a database of students is pretty freakin' innocuous compared to some of the other recruiting shenanigans that have been going down lately...

Re:Well, Duh.

[dedeman]

I'll pick #1 and #4, here's why

#1 Offers an opportunity for the administration to funnel federal monies to private contracting "security" firms, allowing financial incentives for a great many civilians who are not bound by the same rules of military conduct that the soldiers are. It also allows for legal weapons testing. Is is any wonder why the current vice president was the former CEO of the largest conracting agency involved in the war effort?

#5 Even if we claim victory, or achieve victory, or some similar claim, it is (usually) habit to keep an occupying force in a conquered land. There are several bases in the south, Germany, Japan, and I believe we'll see more middle eastern strongholds, thus necessitating larger troop populations, contracting funtions, and *continuing larger military budgeting*. Yep.

The Pentagon would much rather have a healthy, full-strength, all-volunteer military force than an expensive, byzantine network of "independent contractors" doing more and more grunt work outside the scope of both military and civil law.

I don't know if I would necessarily agree with that, for reasons stated above, unless you mean specifically "the Pentagon", rather then the administration. You might be right about that, I'm not sure.

In other words

[Andy Dodd]

The Pentagon is making a database of the poorest and most underprivileged high school students in order to hook them in to military service.

At my high school, which was in a relatively wealthy county, there were almost never military recruiters, and very few students went into the military. Those that did would do so via the rather prestigious military colleges (U.S. Naval Academy, etc.).

Meanwhile, I have relatives that live in upstate New York. Their school district is in a relatively poor section of the country, and they have recruiters almost permanently stationed in the high schools, preying on the students. At this point, even if parents complain, the school can do nothing about the recruiters' presence due to the No Child Left Behind act.

Re:In other words

[ReadParse]

Yeah, but let's not forget that the US Military is a tremendous career opportunity for many people, as an alternative to trade school, minimum wage jobs, unemployment, etc. They take great care of you, the pay is good, and the benefits are extraordinary and last long after you leave the service. I got out almost 10 years ago (having served 5 years) and bought my first house on a VA government-guaranteed mortgage, and will probably buy my second house on another VA mortgage.

Is there a downside to all of these benefits? Well certainly. The purpose of the military, of course, is to fight wars. But if these kids study in school and can do well enough on the ASVAB test, they can get into the Air Force or the Navy, where their lives will be in much less immediate peril and where they can learn extremely useful technical skills.

As Americans, we're spoiled -- and it's easy to forget what actual poverty is like. In many countries, the poorest kids are the ones who cannot go to school because they can't afford it or because they must work to support their families. In America, most of the poor kids are excused from doing well in school because they're from disfunctional families, and that is called poverty. Do they have a TV? Of course. Telephone? Yes. Cable? Very often. Satellite? Big-screen? Designer clothes? You'd be surprised.

Ah, but do they have a part-time job and carry books home in hopes of maybe moving on to something better one day? Some do. But many don't. Military recruiters recognize the more limited future of these kids and that they have something to offer them. Military recruitment is usually a win/win proposition. Let's not forget how much service personnel GET from the US government. I'm one of them and I can attest to it.

RP

your infosec on file

[null etc.]

A little chuckle from the Pentagon in the article: '...anyone can opt out of the system by providing detailed personal information that will be kept in a separate suppression file. That file will be matched with the full database regularly to ensure that those who do not wish to be contacted are not, according to the Pentagon.

For anyone who wonders why this would be necessary, let me give an example.

CapitalOne got it into their heads that they should send me a credit card application every week. After spending an hour trying to track down a telephone number that would let me speak with a CSR without having an account number, I asked them to stop mailing me. The CSR rep replied that the system takes 12 to 16 weeks to fully honor a request to not receive offers! Which is pretty funny, because I asked the rep "so if I sign up for the credit card today, you can take my name off the list, but if I just want you to stop sending me junk that someone can use to steal my identity, it takes 4 months?!?!" He didn't have a good answer.

Anyways, as soon as I move to a new address three months later, I started receiving two offers from CapitalOne every week! They obvious match solely on name and address.

I just don't feel like going through the same bollux again to get my address off the list. Sheesh.

Re:You are expendable pawns.

[KD5YPT]

Well, like it or not, said Student B might actually welcome this scholarship if given the chance. It's not like they're going for mandatory enlistment, they just want to make more efficient recruitment system to raise the chance that they'll actually offer enlistment to people who might want them.

Of course, the extended amount of information they gather is worrying...

Perhaps if they didn't treat recruits like

[antifoidulus]

children maybe they would have more luck. I almost enlisted in the army, but I wanted to talk it over with my family beforehand. I called and canceled my appointment only to have a recruiter call me up and try to play mind games in order to pressure me into joining. I played a game called "Propaganda" in Academic Games in high school, and I was identifying every single technique he was using. He was playing mind games with me like I was 12. If the Army wants to play games, let them play games. Meanwhile recruits will dwindle as they get treated like shit for the chance to die for Dick Cheney.

Re:You are expendable pawns.

[wolfgang_spangler]

Dead on. And the poorer people eat it up. They see it as an avenue, perhaps the only one, from poverty. The government doesn't give two shits about them. They aren't likely to contribute much in taxes in their lifetime and they aren't likey to start a business which can help the economy. In short: they are a nuisance. The governments tell them how great they are and what a good thing it is to fight for your country. It's just glorified welfare with a bloody cost.
What a bunch of crap. The military can be a great way out of poverty. That doesn't mean joining the military will make you rich, but it:

• removes many from a lot of bad situations
• teaches important basics not installed in many poor, inner-city families
  • personal finance
  • personal responsibility
  • respect for others and yourself
  • honor
• provides excellent job skills for many
• can provide security clearances which translate into govt jobs

oh yeah, there is also that little added benefit of a trained military force being the only thing between you being able to post self-righteous crap like this and you being forced to obey the whims of some dictator.
And if you think Bush is a dictator, it really shows how ignorant and coddled you are in this country, protected by the troops which you disdain.

Re:One step beyond..

[sgtrock]

As bad as this sounds, it used to be much, MUCH worse back in the late '70s. Back then, the All Volunteer Force was just getting off the ground. Also, many civilians really believed that anyone who wished to serve his or her country in uniform was either a latent baby killer, or a complete incompetent who couldn't make it in the 'real world'.

I was lucky enough to have an honest recruiter for the Navy warn me up front about what I'd be facing if I put the uniform on. However, once I reached boot camp I heard plenty of horror stories; lots of recruiters who lied about conditions, guys whose recruiters took the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) for them, faked drug tests by recruiters, recruiters who lied on the paperwork about recruits' educational background, etc.

Why was this going on? Well, mostly because the Navy would severely punish sailors who did not meet their recruiting quota. When you have some guy with 15 years in uniform who was struggling just to support his family (on food stamps no less!), staring at the possibility of the loss of his pension because he's about to lose a stripe (which puts him below the minimum rank to be allowed to re-enlist to reach 20 years), he'll do what he has to to avoid it. When you have guys who are facing the possibility of time in the brig if they don't meet quota, they'll do what they have to to avoid it. And forget ever making chief petty officer if you get a letter of reprimand because you missed one monthly quota!

Because the risks to a career were so high, recruiting duty at the time was considered as unpaid hazardous duty by many. Sailors used to volunteer for back to back sea duty tours just to avoid it.