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Universities, the GPL and Patents?

nonlnear asks: "I'm about to finish a PhD in Mathematics and am starting to realize that I am not a big fan of my university's policy about inventions, patents, software, and the like. The gist of it is: you invent while working here => we own everything => we will patent everything. I am planning on a career in academia, but am very conflicted about this way of doing things. What Universities out there will allow me to publish (otherwise patentable) software under the GPL?"

15 of 72 comments (clear)

  1. Not mutually exclusive by HRbnjR · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just because something is patented doesn't mean it can't be released under the GPL.

    The GPL is a licence for granting specific permissions for people to use what *you* (still) own.

    In particular, the GPL (as opposed to the LGPL) only allows non-commercial software to use your copyrighted/patented work, so you can still make a good business licensing it to commercial users.

    That said, the current version of the GPL is great for licensing copyright, but somewhat murky on more complex patent issues in a global market, and that is what is being improved in GPL version 3.

    1. Re:Not mutually exclusive by MrResistor · · Score: 3, Informative

      In particular, the GPL ... only allows non-commercial software to use your copyrighted/patented work,

      Please stop spreading this lie. "Commercial", "proprietary", and "closed source" all have seperate, and distinct, meanings, and the GPL only prohibits the last two.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  2. Most Will...You Just Need To Know How To Start by Noksagt · · Score: 4, Informative

    The easiest way to force something under the GPL or other copyleft licenses is to make a derivative work from GPLed code. So consider using the GNU Scientific Library or something similar as your base. Your University will most likely not make you rewrite it and, if they have a legal department, will most likely not ask you to violate the GPL.

    For a good piece on GPL in academia, see Releasing Free Software if you work at a University by Richard Stallman.

    1. Re:Most Will...You Just Need To Know How To Start by Noksagt · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You, ah, DO realize that using GPL'd code without legal authority to release it is copyright infrigement
      It appears to me that the OP wants to be a post doc or a professor at a University. Typically these people don't have the University administration telling them what to work on. Yes, there are agreements with the administration & with the funding agencies. But there is still a lot of latitude in what they work on. How many academic contracts can you show me which prevent you from starting with copyleft code?

      The GPL itself allows you to make derivative works. It just dictates how you distribute those works.
      otherwise known in the academic field as plagarism--correct?
      Absolutely not. Plagiarism would be violating the GPL. Making a derivative work is not a violation. The ony thing you should have to worry about is the contracts with your University and funding agencies.
      Your university or employer can and should expel/fire you if you try and force them to use a copyleft license they have no intention of using.
      It is pragmatically different in the corporate world in that they DO force both a license and what you work on down your throat.
      Just as they can and should expel/fire you if you try and submit "Noksagt Windows XP" as your final project.
      That would be violating a trademark. Your working on GPL software is not breaking copyrights.

      Still, asking both your University and funding agency for permission to start with GPLed code to accelerate production (and therefore getting more papers out sooner & research done sooner) is a good idea. Most Universities and funding agencies don't view every software project as something which will be sold & see papers & academic discoveries as the real ends. They will therefore be likely to give you permission so you can do your job.
    2. Re:Most Will...You Just Need To Know How To Start by Noksagt · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Plagarism is when you publish or submit something and call it your own.
      How, exactly, are you claiming the GPLed code as your own? Many academic papers I read in which the author created a derivative work from GPLed software make it explicit as to what there work is built on & I don't recall saying you should claim authorship for anyhting you didn't write.
      Making a derivitive work, giving it someone else, and not using the GPL *IS* a violation of the GPL.
      And that is why I (and Stallman before me) said it is a good way to release software under the GPL. If you start with GPLed software, you have two choices: keep it in house & don't release it (which many Universities and funding agencies are O.K. with) or release it under the GPL.
      And if you have an agreement that keeps you from doing that,
      As I said, I haven't seen many agreements to that effect in academia.
      How many academic contracts can you show me which prevent you from starting with copyleft code?

      How many academic contracts can you show me that prohibit the teacher from shitting on thier desk? Or stealing money from the administrator's pocket?
      Oh. I guess you haven't seen many agreements to that effect either.
    3. Re:Most Will...You Just Need To Know How To Start by Urgoll · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I do work in academia, and one thing I've noticed is that more and more funding agencies (NSF among others) is that they are more likely to fund your proposal if the proposal states that the software created by the project will be released under an open source license. Open Source is good for the funding agency, as it means that the research will be more widely disseminated, and so will have a bigger bang for the buck. It can also be folded into the 'educational outreach' part of the proposal.

      Once the funding agency has agreed to fund a proposal which stated that the software would be released under an open source license, this thing goes into the contract between the agency and the university, and you're in the clear.

      The university would be really stupid to refuse such a contract - in fact, I've never heard of a university refusing money. :-)

    4. Re:Most Will...You Just Need To Know How To Start by Sancho · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And that is why I (and Stallman before me) said it is a good way to release software under the GPL. If you start with GPLed software, you have two choices: keep it in house & don't release it (which many Universities and funding agencies are O.K. with) or release it under the GPL.

      Precisely. A professor making a derivative work under the terms of the submitter's contract would effectively mean that the University owns the derivative work. As it is derivative of a GPL'd program, the University may choose what to do with it, however if they distribute it, it MUST be distributed under the GPL.

      The professor writing the code won't be distributing it to the University--he is effectively a representative of the University while he is doing it, and thus should have no legal problems unless he himself tries to distribute the code [under the GPL]. Doing so would seemingly violate his contract, but just making a derivative work should be fine until/unless they tell him not to.

    5. Re:Most Will...You Just Need To Know How To Start by croddy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The idea that software code produced as part of academic research could be anything but open-source is appalling. How can the software possibly be peer-reviewed for its merits if its source code is kept secret?

      Personally, I don't trust the results of any research that is based on proprietary, black-box software. Keeping the source code hidden may work in the retail software business, but it simply doesn't cut it in research.

      Show us the source code, or your research is freaking useless.

  3. University of Toronto by baronben · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm in the process of writing a report for the University of Toronto and recommendations for releasing research as open source. I was told not to even concentrate on convincing them to do it, they're already leaning towards that, but rather to make recommendations on licences. As far as I can tell, no department at U of T says that they own research, and profs and grad students generally have a free hand to release their research as they want.

    U of T is also home to the Knowledge Media Design Institute, which is a huge proponent of Open Source. This year they ran a lecture series called Open Source | Open Access which was entirely on the place of open source within the academic community. They're also offering grants to students to work on open source software!

    I'm not sure how good the math program is here, as the maths frighten me. From walking around campus, I do know that we have something called the "Fields Institute for Mathematics", which seems very official and such not. Give it a look, there are worse places to be than downtown Toronto.

    Give me an e-mail if you want some more info on U of T

  4. Lame by Silkejr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's ridiculous and really messed up that a university would have a policy like that. The whole idea of a university is the dissemination of knowledge, not locking it up in legalities.

  5. Re:University of Toronto - I'm sorry by baronben · · Score: 3, Informative

    On further research, it looks like I was wrong. According to U of T's Copyright policy the university holds the copyright to anything "created by an Author in the course of the Author's employment by the University." On the other hand, "For the purposes of this Policy, research and instruction, or the creation of instructional Works, including Instructional Software, undertaken by members of the University's Teaching Staff or librarians shall not be deemed to be made or undertaken in the course of their employment by the University." This leaves me thoroughly confused, which is about par for the course.

    However, in another twist in this dramatic story " Computer Software that is not Instructional Software will be deemed to be an "Invention" under the Inventions Policy, and the rights and obligations with respect to such Computer Software and the disposition of revenues therefrom shall be in accordance with the Inventions Policy." This Invention Policy says that the university essentially everything you make in your office.

    So, we're no different than anyone else, but damn if we don't have the best student union in the greater Canadas.

  6. Pick a UK university by keesh · · Score: 2

    We haven't gone the way of the USA. Yet...

  7. University of Waterloo by roju · · Score: 2, Informative

    The University of Waterloo in Canada generally makes a selling point of the fact that staff, faculty, students, RAs, etc retain ownership of any copyrights or patents that stem from their research.

  8. All of them will by DynaSoar · · Score: 2

    "What Universities out there will allow me to publish (otherwise patentable) software under the GPL?"

    All of them. It's called publishing your research, something they also require. Write it up and send it to a journal. They require that you turn over copyright of the article to them. Make the code available under GPL and write the URL into the article. If the university wants to fight about it, let them fight with the journal and in the process make it clear to all their employed academics that publishing their work will get them problems. Won't happen.

    You can also team up with someone from a different university and publish collaboration, and let the universities fight for the rights whether they have the same or different policies.

    Also, they cannot prove you invented something while there unless you say so and document it as such for them. I have been involved in research with others, including works in progress and undeveloped ideas, for quite some time. I can honestly tell them that I can't honestly sign such a thing without an equally binding document that says my previous work and collaborations, no matter how much or little completed, don't fall under their 100%. I've successfully used this in commercial settings, and they're much more stringent than universities.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  9. how universities really work by belmolis · · Score: 2, Informative

    The situation the poster describes is, I think, atypical. In my experience (and I've been faculty for 22 years) virtually all universities concede to their faculty the copyright on what they write as part of their research or teaching. The only situation I can think of in which the university gets the copyright is when a faculty member writes something at the behest of the university. For instance, if you're one of a number of people who write a policy manual, the university will normally hold the copyright on that. But it is unheard of in my experience for the university to hold the copyright on research publications by faculty.

    Patents are another story. Policies vary quite a bit. A common one is that the university has the right of first refusal. If they turn it down, its yours. If they decide they want it, you get a certain percentage of the profit.

    Software, naturally, is sort of in between, being something written and typically protected by copyright, but at the same time more in the nature of a "thing" or a "product". In practice, lots of software is released under the GPL or BSD licenses. Roughly speaking, the less obvious commercial value the software has, the more closely it is tied to your research, and the smaller the group of people who work on it, the more likely you'll be able to release it freely. If you write a compiler for the cool new dysfunctional language you've designed, all by yourself, the odds are they'll never even notice, much less care. If, on the other hand, a bunch of people create something that looks like a product and looks like a money-maker, the university may take a different view of things. If they can argue that you've used a lot of university resources (other than your research time), that will make it look more like it belongs to them.

    People have sometimes gotten into trouble with big projects like this. Stephen Wolfram left Cal Tech when he got into a fight with them over the ownership of SMP, the symbolic math program that he had written, essentially the predecessor to Mathematica.

    My impression is that unless you get involved in things like SMP that look really attractive as products, releasing software is generally not a big problem, though some places will want to use a BSD-type license instead of the GPL. I'd be curious to see if anyone else on Slashdot knows of problems of this sort arising in practice.