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Java: One Step Closer To Open Source
Ritalin16 writes "Sun Microsystems on Monday intends to celebrate the 10th anniversary of its Java programming language by sharing the proprietary source code for several key Java applications used by corporate customers. Sun officials believe that by making the source codes open to developers, they will spur more involvement and use of Java-based applications."
Ahh, someone who wants to make a front page slashdot article, but doesn't understand Java. What's worse? The editor that posts it, and doesn't understand java.
The source code being released isn't "source code for several key Java applications," its the source to Sun's java application server (called "Platform Edition 9"). Other app servers you probably have heard of are WebSphere, WebLogic, and.... the open source JBoss! The reason Sun is open sourcing their app server is because no one uses it!
If a company wants to run a giant professional website and has money to throw at it, they'll get WebLogic or WebSphere to run it. If they don't, they run tomcat (if no EJBs requried) or JBoss. No one uses Sun's app server cause its new and immature.
This is not a step towards opening Java. The only relation this has to Java is the fact that it runs Java code and is written in Java. Just because sun open sourced it doesn't mean its thinking about open sourcing the Java lanugage.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Isn't the purpose of open-source to allow customizations through new implementations of said software?
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
That could be a leak in the freenet client, no?
-mkb
massive runtime: last I look, the NET framework had me download about 40 megs from msft (includes sp1), while java stands at about 15 megs. The installation is a lot easier than NET (I had to run net twice because of some error, plus the service pack, which I needed for my app to work.
And I don't find any java app to be slow.
I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
Thanks for not understanding anything about Java. Java CAN use native widgets -- check out SWT. SWT apps look great. Take Eclipse and Azureus for example: they're superb applications, they integrate well with nice shortcuts and launchers and whatnot, and they look wonderful. Even swing apps can look great if some effort is put into their design; Netbeans is a great IDE.
Sun still doesn't "get" open source. Check out this interview on news.com with Scott McNealy, Sun's CEO.
We have a strategy that's very different from everybody else's, and it's community development. The way we say that is with the S curve in all our new literature. It's not for Scott, it's not for Sun, it's for "share." We're grabbing that word and saying, of anybody, we own the word "share." We own that space.
The oxymoron appears to have gone unnoticed. But it makes it very clear that Sun is still all about proprietary stuff. They might share it, but they still own it. And that's straight from the horse's mouth.
So.. it has come to this
For some facts please read The Apache Harmony Blog
how the HELL do you expect an end user to run JavaApp123, when all they download is a .class file?
Users almost never download class files. They download JAR files. JAR files can have a Main-Class property which means that with a JRE installed the user need only double-click the JAR to run it.
Why in GODS NAME does Java NOT USE Native Widgets?
Because native widgets can a wide range of capabilities on different platforms. The Java widgets are usually a superset of these capabilities, allowing a rich interface to be cross-platform.
I mean, I can spot a Java application light years away.
That is the developer's fault, not Java's. Java ships with the option to use widgets that have a very close match to the native OS widgets on platforms such as XP and MacOS/X (on the latter, they are indistinguishable). Sun is working to ensure that Java apps are completely visually compatible with Windows apps on the next version of Windows.
It doesn't integrate cleanly in ANY regard.
Yes it does. There is an API called JDIC (Java Desktop Integration Components) that allows very good integration with the GUI of a system, from using the 'systray' to opening native browsers and so on.
The product name is new, the product core is not. Other names it went by include (in chronological order)
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be
how the HELL do you expect an end user to run JavaApp123, when all they download is a .class file?
.jnlp file, which then automatically downloads the latest versions of all necessary .class and other files. It's pretty painless.
You could use WebStart, so that the user downloads a
Why in GODS NAME does Java NOT USE Native Widgets?
One good reason is that many native widgets do not behave equally on different platforms. But that's beside the point, as there are plenty of desktop Java apps that DO use native widgets. Azureus and Eclipse, for two...
My quote "Sure, you can run it, but why would you want to?"
Because one luser bitching about the scroll buttons being the wrong shade of grey is less important than saving the developers from having to rewrite the screen management code from scratch multiple times for each target platform.
SWT runs on Java the language but it is not Java itself. That is to say, it is not part of the Java platform. It is a product of IBM-- it's a third party library-- and is not promoted or supported by Sun. If he wants to complain about the Java language maybe he's being unreasonable, but if he wants to complain about Sun's Java then things are quite different.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Of what you've listed, I've used only eclipse. Really, I don't find it slow for what it does compared to any other complex application. Have you looked at dreamweaver, ilustrator, or any other modern complex application and see how slow they are? And there's no java to blame there. Being slow is a consequence of today's complexity and modern development techniques, you simply can't say "Java" and expect it to mean "slow".
For simple apps to medium apps, java is not slow. I can mention here azureus, sanchez, jedit, hot potato, freemind, some custom apps that I have met in my work, etc.
I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
Oracle, Slow?
Are you mad?
Sure, the instalation software is crap, but I dont think you can blame java directly.
If I wasn't at work I would do a little googling around for performance comparisons.
For reasons like your statement above I did some research a year ago as I was doing some java development to see just how slow java was, and, yes, the first many releases of java were quite slow, but the latest version are not.
Sure, its not as speedy as a C program, but its not designed to be. Ill take the developement cycle and portability ease in most situation that dont require absolute speed.
I have done solar simulations in java with advanced mathematics and OpenGL and they have been very speedy. Just need to do it proper.
Bah.
Here.
This is just one of many articles actually comparing performace: Take a look at the benchmarks, SciMark 2.0 (in Java, C# and C) being the easiest to deduce results.
Clearly Java is faster than even C in some cases, and almost always faster than C#. Momo doesnt even compare, so portability is very inefficient.
Java is awsome, for the right purposes. Dont bash it.
"Sure, its not as speedy as a C program,"
Actually, it _is_ a C program. Only the GUI was ever slow, and that was over 10 years ago. Anyone that calls Java slow today is either ignorant or trolling.
I use Eclipse and its not slow either. Its funny to even call Eclipse slow as it uses native widgets for even faster (but mainly more native looking) operation.
I think he was just a troll.
That's a pretty good summation of how I feel about it. I use Python if I really don't care about the execution speed and want the quickest development times. Java is a step up the rung and its much more suitable for use in business environments.
Python is great for a quick and dirty implementation, and C++ is good if you are making a commercial product, but if your app is going to be used by your average corporate shmuck for an in-house system then Java is a smart choice. Java based database frontends are easy to maintain, robust, and very professional looking, and this is where Java shines most brightly I think.
Clickety Click
If Sun had been sensible with Swing, it could have produced something responsive and useful like SWT.
IF SWT were part of the Java runtime, would you make the same point?
All GUI features have to hook into the OSes graphics library at some point - making them native.
Third party native hooks versus built-in hooks - a bit of a fine line there. Especially since SWT runs on most platforms, and platforms that aren't supported could be ported since SWT is OSS.