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Our Brains Don't Work Like Computers

Roland Piquepaille writes "We're using computers for so long now that I guess that many of you think that our brains are working like clusters of computers. Like them, we can do several things 'simultaneously' with our 'processors.' But each of these processors, in our brain or in a cluster of computers, is supposed to act sequentially. Not so fast! According to a new study from Cornell University, this is not true, and our mental processing is continuous. By tracking mouse movements of students working with their computers, the researchers found that our learning process was similar to other biological organisms: we're not learning through a series of 0's and 1's. Instead, our brain is cascading through shades of grey."

13 of 737 comments (clear)

  1. comparisons by sound+vision · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And it is for this reason that I loathe comparisons of computing power to brain power. "By 2015, we'll have computers as smart as humans." What kind of bullshit comparison is that? They're two completely different processes.

    1. Re:comparisons by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "By 2015, we'll have computers sufficiently powerful to simulate a full working model of a human brain in enough detail to be functionally equivalent" would be what is actually being predicted. Because we have no convenient way of quantifying human smarts, like you said we cannot effectively compare how "smart" a computer is with respect to a human. That doesn't mean that computers will not be able to be functionally equivalent to biological intelligences, and there's no logical reason to suspect that they won't be in due time.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    2. Re:comparisons by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Actually, there is a perfectly logical reason: it's called Goedel's incompleteness theorem. It shows that there are some types of mathematical proofs that a human mathematician can demonstrate to be true, but a turing machine ( read: any current technology computer ) cannot.

      That's wrong. Godel's Theorem shows that there exist true theorems that are unprovable -- by humans or computers. It doesn't say humans can "demonstrate" them better than a machine. At best, it shows you can "guess" a theorem (and wave your hands to make it seem plausible) and no one is able to DISprove it, but not that a human could "demonstrate" its truth when a machine couldn't. A mathematical proof is purely logical and computers can verify and generate these proofs, if not yet as elegantly as humans.

    3. Re:comparisons by RhettLivingston · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unlikely. First, what they are saying here is that there is no clock. The brain is fundamentally analog in both state and TIME. To "simulate" it using computer algorithms would likely require finely stepped integrators for every connection of every neuron and every chemical pathway. Even the modeling of the blood flow and its nutrients is likely critical to a successful simulation of the thought process in some way. Its not at all like a normal computing problem. Its more like computing physics. We'd need processors like the new PhysX chip though vastly more sophisticated. I'm thinking that a high fidelity of all of the connections of a single neuron in real time would likely take a full chip.

      Furthermore, there is no evidence that we'll even be close to understanding how to teach the simulation if we created it. I'd put better odds on the creation of some sensing technology that could fully map the physical connections and the electrochemical state of every neuron and other component involved in thought (does anyone really think we know all of the components?). And I'd still place those odds very low.

      And what if we could simulate it... should we? It is likely that we'd create many insane intelligences in the process, either because we didn't duplicate the processes close enough, didn't put in all of the instinct portions of the brain that actually have much more to do with true intelligence than the thinking portions, didn't provide the inputs that they were designed to have, or tried to improve on a analog machine with a complexity level far beyond modern math's ability to balance. And, whether or not its true, many would call them life. Turning them off would likely be considered the same as killing them. The ethical dilemmas that would come about are tremendous.

    4. Re:comparisons by jejones · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, that's not what Goedel's incompleteness theorem says. It says that any deductive system has one of three flaws:

      1. You can't derive the arithmetic of the natural numbers from it.
      2. There is at least one true proposition that isn't a theorem in the system (i.e. it's incomplete, hence the name of Goedel's theorem).
      3. The system isn't consistent.

      (3) renders a deductive system worthless, and (1) renders it pretty weak, so one can hope at best for (2).

      Note that nothing is said about humans versus machines, and there's no reason that humans aren't as subject to it as programs.

      Example, which I think I read about in GEB (but customized for the current discussion): "lawpoop cannot consistently assert this proposition." Clearly that is a true statement. (Yes, it's silly, but Goedel's theorem goes through a lot of work to generate an arithmetic encoding of "This statement is not provable in deductive system S," which is much the same sort of statement.) Sorry, but there's nothing magic about humans.

  2. Misleading by rjh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article's summation is far more accurate than Slashdot. In TFA, a researcher says our minds don't work like digital computers.

    The Slashdot headline says our minds don't work like computers, end of sentence.

    Had TFSH (The Fine Slashdot Headline) been accurate, this would've been a mind-blowing result and in need of some extraordinarily strong evidence to support such an extraordinary claim. The question of whether the human mind--sentience, consciousness, and all that goes with it--is a computable process is one of the most wide-open questions in AI research right now. It's so wide-open that nobody wants to approach it directly; it's seen as too difficult a problem.

    But no, that's not what these guys discovered at all. They just discovered the brain doesn't discretize data. Significant result. Impressive. I'd like to see significant evidence. But it's very, very wrong to summarize it as "our brains don't work like computers". That's not what they proved at all.

    Just once, I'd like to see a Slashdot editor read an article critically, along with the submitter's blurb, before posting it.

  3. Re:-1, Roland Piquepaille by rpozz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll burn some karma too. In this article he hasn't posted a link to his plaguerised 'overview'. Is this a poor attempt to make it look like that no money changes hands between him and slashdot?

  4. Re:really?!? by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Thank god we have someone like Roland Piquepaille to point out these amazing facts to us!

    Yes, that was sarcasam!

    --
    "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  5. Evolution by __aaijsn7246 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...the researchers found that our learning process was similar to other biological organisms....

    That makes perfect sense, seeing as our brains evolved from other biological organisms.

    Check out evolutionary psychology for some information. You'll view the world differently afterwards.

    Evolutionary psychology (or EP) proposes that human and primate cognition and behavior could be better understood by examining them in light of human and primate evolutionary history... The idea that organisms are machines that are designed to function in particular environments was argued by William Paley (who, in turn, drew upon the work of many others).

  6. Universality of computation by G4from128k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because brains aren't binary or synchronously clocked doesn't mean much. One can create analog computers to represent shades of gray or create clockless computers that don't operate in lock-step synchronization. Furthermore, any digital, synchronous computer and simulate both shades of gray (with floating point numbers) and continuous processes (with sufficiently small time slices). Moreover, given the messiness of neuro-electrochemical systems, one can argue that it doesn't take a very precise float or a particularly dense time slicing to simulate neurons.

    Some people ascribe the seeming magic of consciousness to some ineffable property of the brain, e.g., quantum mechanical effect. While other insist that its just what happens when you connect enough simple elements in a self-adaptive network.

    The question is, are there neural input-output functions that are fundamentally not computable? If not, then a digital computer will, someday, reach human brain power (assuming Moore's law continues).

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  7. Brain vs. Mind by Kaenneth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think the chunk of meat in my head works using digital logic; but I'd like to think my Mind does a reasonable job of it.

    Natural numbers (1,2,3...), true/false, up/down...

    It's not unnatural to divide everything in half, heck our bodys are mostly symmetrical; the distiction comes in where the dividing line is.

    We can weight our decisions in endless ways, if someone makes a statement, our belief of that statement depends on how many times we have heard it, our trust in the stater, if it meshes with known facts in the current context.

    What I wonder is how far can a human mind be pushed in terms of concepts it can grasp and control it has, can a human visualise a 5 dimensional virtual object? control emotional responses, without supressing them? hold multiple contridictary world models? accelerate long-term memory access?

    Even if you think of an electronic computer, it's just hordes of electrons rushing down pathways, only reliable because the voltage levels are continually refreshed at each step, a few electrons might wander off the path, but they are replaced at the next junction. Quantum Mob Rule.

  8. Pretty Please by pete-classic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dear Slashdot Editors,

    Could we pretty, pretty please have a Roland Piquepaille section, so we can opt-out? I've been good all year, and it's almost my birthday, and I won't ask for anything for Christmas.

    -Peter

  9. Re:The brain is not a computer by Lemuridae · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Finally, a few good comments.

    The point under discussion in this article is summed in this quote:

    "More recently, however, a growing number of studies, such as ours, support dynamical-systems approaches to the mind. In this model, perception and cognition are mathematically described as a continuous trajectory through a high-dimensional mental space; the neural activation patterns flow back and forth to produce nonlinear, self-organized, emergent properties -- like a biological organism."

    The goal is to forcefully point out (using an experiment) that the one way we think about mental processing, the digital computational model, is not very useful even at the trivial level of mental signal processing.

    It's interesting how all the sarcastic comments about the "biological organism" reference completely miss the point. The point is that the signal is being processed in a way that could be modeled by the way a biological organism moves through space. It sniffs here, then there, then jumps to the solution. The signal processing itself exhibits emergent properties.

    The reference to the dynamical system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_system) is key. (I think people frequently fail to gloss the additional "al" and think this refers to some sort of generic "dynamic system"). Dynamical systems, although deterministic, are a foundational tool for developing chaos theory.

    For me the interesting idea is that the default state of thought is in-betweeness. We stay jittering back and forth in an unresolved state until, suddenly, we aren't.