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Project Gizmo Challenges Skype

valmont writes "The Register is offering an interesting introduction to Project Gizmo, a new player in the Voice over IP field, poised to challenge Skype with its ability to interoperate with others thanks to the SIP protocol it complies to. Whereas Skype has selectively licensed usage of an API that offers limited insight into a closed protocol, a closed ecosystem solely controlled by one organization, the SIP protocol is open. Free open-source proxy/server implementations are sprouting up, and many developers are actively working on SIP clients. The Gizmo Project is the first to bring a truly-usable, user-friendly, cross-platform SIP client (Mac, Windows, Linux coming soon) to market. Meanwhile, theappleblog.com is already offering a Gizmo Project Wish-List to promote better interoperability between current and upcoming SIP providers, to make it more practical for users of disparate SIP clients to communicate with one another."

20 of 207 comments (clear)

  1. Project Gimzo? by FrontalLobe · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just don't get it wet... or feed it after midnight...

    --
    -FL
  2. Gizmo Interoperability by valmont · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've also posted a couple of tips and tricks on getting Gizmo working with other SIP systems, and also listing some other players in the SIP field.

    1. Re:Gizmo Interoperability by mtaht · · Score: 5, Interesting

      SIP devices still have the problem of routing correctly through firewalls and the like. True P2P telephony is difficult with SIP, due to this. Skype gets around it by using their proprietary protocol. The much simpler and cleaner and far more open IAX2 protocol (a feature of the open source asterisk pbx) is being used by some devices to get around SIP limitations while still retaining (or exceeding) SIP voice quality. At least one IAX2 provider, firefly, gets it - (https://www.virbiage.com/products.php) calls to their network are automatically switched to the other user, getting the middleman out of the loop, and dramatically improving voice quality. Example - I place a call to a friend a block on vonage via vonage on comcast, and the packets get routed through about 17 routers, with a delay of 80ms - to get up the street. I place the same call via firefly - one router, and a delay of 25ms. Yes, theres windows, mac, and Linux clients. Also clients for most unixen, and several embedded devices....

  3. Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What about a BSD compatable client? Last I checked... there are no x86 voip clients that run on openbsd. Although, it is great to see them creating a cross platform client.

  4. Also see Ineen and P2P SIP by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ineen is similar to Gizmo but it also has IM and video. It seems like companies are falling over themselves to give away SIP clients these days.

    Ineen and Gizmo are still client-server SIP systems, but to truly compete with Skype, the IETF is working on P2P extensions to SIP.

  5. Conflict of "Gizmo" name? by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 4, Informative

    SunRocket, a VOIP company, has a hardware device called "The Gizmo" (see SunRocket How to Install and you'll see their adapter named "The Gizmo"). I can't find anything to indicate which came first though.

  6. Another Michael Robertson project by dudeman2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Michael Robertson of MP3.com and the Linux distro formerly known as Lindows. Say what you want about the guy, he's a very good self promoter and knows when to jump on a new technology. This should be interesting to watch.

  7. Open Standards != Open source by l2718 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Having competing standards and companies in the field will make for better services for the users. Open standards are great, since they improve interoperability and reliability. For example, people can writing their own clients, etc.

    However, the project is not open-source. At least, their about us page doesn't mention it. They only say:

    At the core of Gizmo Project is a commitment to open standards
    Methinks someone at the Register got confused. Those other clients written may be open-source or even free software, but the client they offer surely isn't. Their server software is not even offered for download (nor should it necessarily be -- that's what they want to make the money off, of course).
  8. Re:Explanation by ZephyrXero · · Score: 4, Informative

    Didn't you ever hear the rule that once you have to explain a joke, it's no longer funny? ..heh...

    --
    "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
  9. Let's not forget by Swamii · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Credit where credit is due: Project Gizmo is yet another invention of Mp3.com creator, Lindows/Linspire creator, long-time enemy of Microsoft Michael Robertson.

    Can't remember his connection to SCO, though...

    --
    Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit
  10. SIP and NAT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    SIPs achillies heel is its inability to play nice once NAT and/or firewalls are added to the equation.

    For me Skype's most important feature is its ability to play nice with firewalls and NAT.

    1. Re:SIP and NAT by valmont · · Score: 5, Informative

      WRONG, NAT was SIP's weakness ONLY until the STUN protocol came out in 2003. Since then, all SIP clients use the STUN protocol to traverse NAT at least as well as Skype does. I've used EarthLink SIP, sipphone.com SIP, FWD through multiple layers of NATs without a glitch.

      STUN is a major enabler of SIP

    2. Re:SIP and NAT by gst · · Score: 5, Insightful

      STUN helps - but only in about 80% - 90% of all cases. E.g. it won't be able to traverse symetrical firewalls. And even if you get the basic call setup right - try to transfer a call between different phones which are behind different NATs - and have fun! While some may argue that broken firewalls are the users fault, just see this from a users view: Skype works - always. SIP works - sometimes. Which one would you prefer?

  11. SIP SCHMIP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Is it P2P? Does it use strong encryption? Does it have comparable voice quality? So far, the answers have been no, no, no, and that's why Skype is doing so well. There is such a thing as premature standardization.

    Although this project looks kinda interesting...

    1. Re:SIP SCHMIP by valmont · · Score: 4, Informative

      SIP by its very definition defines and enables P2P based on open standards. The SIP protocol is a signaling protocol, which enables two machines to find each-other on the internet and start exchanging data in real-time without going through a 3rd-party.

      SIP opens the doors to far more than just real-time communications (text, voice, video), it also opens the doors to file sharing. It's a matter of someone writing a client that does file sharing over SIP. OH WAIT, someone already did as a proof of concept, and released the source code under a BSD-style license.

      Voice quality is absolutely fantastic with Gizmo, but it entirely depends on which SIP client you use, and which SIP client the party you're calling uses. The SIP protocol, is only a signaling protocol. There are a buttload of other open protocols such as SDP (Session Description Protocol) that come into play and allow for infinite layers of interoperability based on users' computing and network resources. Through handshaking, two SIP clients can easily agree to the best codec to use.

  12. Mandatory FreeWorldDialup comparison by MCRocker · · Score: 4, Informative

    FreeWorldDialup has been doing pretty much the same thing for years now. They even have their own pre-configured software. If you don't like the Pulver Communicator you can always get one of half a dozen other SIP phones (soft or otherwise) that work with the service. They even offer a pre-configured version of The SJPhone, which is essentially what the Gizmo folks are offering. If you want a dial-out service FWD offers a choice of affiliates who can give you that portion a-la-carte!

    So, why would you want to use Gizmo?

    --
    Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
  13. Re:Stanaphone is SIP too by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm not a big fan of Skype, but the "UDP Magic" you speak of is a normal technique used for bypassing firewalls in modern UDP applications. On the protocal level, it's no more of a dirty trick than network address translation is to begin with, and on the user level it's no more relevent than TCP vs. UDP. There's no security issue here.

    --
    -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  14. Compatible with SIP but shares SIP's problems by OlivierB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Skype for all the gripe we may have against it for being closed source and not interoperable with other VOIP providers (FWD, Vonage etc..) does have the most important feature (and holds a monopoly for it too):Encryption

    I didn't like having an old fart snooping on my AIM conversations a few years ago and I put an end to it very quick; I've been using Trillian and now Adium with secure IM and OTR encryption.

    As much as I like having cheap calls and all I rather my private conversations stay.. well... private.

    Skype is the only interplatform secure voice application.

    Gizmo can take it's fancy gui and go right back to the drawing board as far as I'm concerned.

    If you ask me voip with sip (ala vonage) is just a disaster waiting to happen, sooner or later somebody will write an article in NYTimes or some mass distribution newspaper about how insecure and easy it is for somebody on your campus/office/wifi... LAN to record your conversation and everybody is going to freak out.

    Encryption should be built-in NOW before it is too late to change the standards.

    --
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
  15. More about Gizmo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ok, we admit it's a lame name, but we think the product is solid. Here's why it's significant:

    - It is based on SIP so other SIP hardware and software should interoperate. Check out http://www.siphardware.com/ for some of the hardware devices. I have a Call-in-One so a SIP call rings my home phone. Even a wifi SIP phone should work with Gizmo.

    - It navigates firewalls and NATS. Skype has done this well, but SIP clients have generally not. Gizmo Project should penetrate just about any firewall or NAT setup. I used it successfully on Boeing's wifi service on flight to Frankfurt 2 weeks ago bouncing calls off satellites.

    - It's Mac/Win today and YES, there will be Linux client shortly. No, really.

    - We're committed to an open directory meaning that we will interconnect with everyone. We already connect to many big and small networks. See: http://sipphone.com/numbers/. We do enum lookups. We even support the intriguing DUNDI extension for Astericks. I want VOIP world to be like email where one address is reachable by everyone. I hope VOIP does NOT become like IM where AOL can't talk to MSN who can't talk to Y, etc. If you care to read more about why I think this is important, you can go to: http://michaelrobertson.com/.

    - All calls on IP network are free as is voicemail, call recording, conference calling, etc. (try calling 1-222-xxx-xxxx and create an instant conference call with unlimited number of callers.) Only have to pay if touching the PSTN. We do give you 25 cents for free to check out the PSTN quality.

    - Be nice because it's just beta software! Thx.

    -- MR

  16. Don't let anyone snooker you out of your freedom. by jbn-o · · Score: 5, Informative

    The license for Gizmo Project software is quite clear, the software doesn't even qualify for the weaker standard of "open source" (weaker than "free software" which requires that the user have permission to make private derivatives):

    License Restrictions

    You may not reproduce or distribute the Software for any purpose whatsoever. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not copy the Software to any server or location for reproduction or distribution. You may not reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Software. The restrictions contained herein apply equally to any updates that may be provided to you by SIPphone.

    The company offers what they call "Opensource support", which appears to be little more than name-dropping. But I expect people around here to know better than to take on faith whatever a proprietor says.

    At the very least, even if there is no intention to bamboozle users into adopting the software, this is yet another use of the term "Opensource" which shows how people don't understand what that term means. Reminiscent of examples of same from the FSF essay on the differences between the free software and open source movements (examples include Neal Stephenson's writing, the State of Kansas' definition, and a particularly interesting example from a trade show in late 1998).

    As a result of a little digging into Project Gizmo, I still see no real competition for GNOMEMeeting. I see one more proprietor asking me to install a mysterious program on my computer so that the proprietor can do something on my computer that I am prohibited from inspecting, sharing, or modifying.