Shanda Box vs. Microsoft Venus After Six Years?

Luyi Chen asks: "Shanda revealed their new PC entertainment center (aka Shanda Box) at China International Consumer Electronics Show (SinoCES) last Friday. It's strategy is to move Internet content to TV. Six years ago, Microsoft Venus was to provide a cheap operating system with basic information processing ability for the TV set-top market. While Microsoft focused on reducing the price, Shanda focuses on reducing the entry level. Both strategies are based on the fact that the number of TVs dwarfs the number of PCs in China, which won't change in six years. What is different is that we have faster hardware, more Internet content and users. Amazingly enough, Microsoft's Venus didn't make it out of the laboratory. Does Slashdot think Shanda will succeed where Microsoft thought it would fail?"

Comments

It's entirely possible

[ShatteredDream]

All it'll take is for some nationalist in the PRC to get a bug up their ass and Microsoft won't be legally allowed to participate without at least a heavy barrier to entry into the market. I wouldn't mind seeing Microsoft succeed because I'm an American and I don't want the communists to get richer at our expense.

It'd be good for the US and China to get into a trade war NOW while China still doesn't have too much leverage against us. Yeah, they could do a good bit of damage, but nothing we couldn't recover from within five to ten years from. However, the fact remains that China has allowed us very little access to their markets while demanding access to our markets. It'd be nice to see Bush actually pull one of his "homeland security" initiatives by getting a law passed that mandates a major US divestment from China. Why we're investing in a country that is belligerant toward Taiwan, Japan and South Korea, three of our largest trade partners and three good allies is beyond me.

What China is proving today is that free market capitalism doesn't inherently lead toward freedom. The people have to really want it and use the free market as a means to get ahead toward that freedom. The Shanda Box succeeding may make life a little bit better for some people in China, but at the same time it'll also help fund the weapons that'll probably kill thousands in Taiwan if and when the PLA invades Taiwan before 2008.

Re:It's entirely possible

[periol]

I'm taking you at face-value, whether or not you're serious.

I'm an American and I don't want the communists to get richer at our expense.

You talk about the free market, but you ignore our freedom to *not* buy their products. Are you an American, or are you selfish? If you're an American, and you're concerned about China getting rich off of us, then stop buying Chinese products. Or, you could selfishly give into the market, and buy whatever is cheapest.

It'd be good for the US and China to get into a trade war NOW while China still doesn't have too much leverage against us. Yeah, they could do a good bit of damage, but nothing we couldn't recover from within five to ten years

IANAE, but I've had this same thought for about ten years. I don't understand the hypocrisy of our trade policy with China. We wouldn't even have to get into a trade war, honestly. It wouldn't come to that.

It'd be nice to see Bush actually pull one of his "homeland security" initiatives by getting a law passed that mandates a major US divestment from China. Why we're investing in a country that is belligerant toward Taiwan, Japan and South Korea, three of our largest trade partners and three good allies is beyond me.

Because Bush isn't stupid (for the record, I'm a member of the Green party) and has read his history. The same history that tells us that whenever America tries to ignore the rest of the world, it doesn't work. We end up getting into wars anyways.

We live in a global economy now. Nothing is cut-and-dry, there are no easy solutions to simple problems. I'd be willing to bet that if we really had a free market, you wouldn't like it very much, since your standard of living would significantly decrease. Significantly.

if and when the PLA invades Taiwan before 2008.

Please. There will be no invasion. It will be a peaceful coup. It will happen anytime China decides to make it happen. But it won't be an invasion.

I almost agree with everything you said. I don't agree with any of it.

Re:It's entirely possible

[PsiPsiStar]

The Chinese 'Communist' party is closer to 'fascist' now. Chinese are going over Mao's little red book for business tips.

What China is proving today is that free market capitalism doesn't inherently lead toward freedom.

While I'd agree with that, China is still a third world country outside of a few major cities.

Of course, China is democratic at the local level.
And America is only so democratic at the national level - we're effectivly dominated by the two major parties, and have proven ourselves unable to elect anyone except the people they put forward.

I guess it's all in how you define freedom. While China still ain't that great a place to live, they do have more freedoms now that 10 years ago. For example, China recently lifted the restriction saying you couldn't sleep with someone unless you were married to them. 15 years ago or so, this law was heavily enforced.

As much as we're indoctrinated to believe it, "freedom" and "democracy" are not absolutes. China has some democracy... but not enough. Their freedom has definitely been increasing as well.

In terms of freedom, China has some freedoms that the US doesn't have - freedom from patents. Freedom from required proscriptions. Freedom from consumer protections. Freedom to buy fireworks and use them outside of major cities. Freedom to buy alcohol and cigarettes without a license or age requirement. For whatever those things are worth... Though I'm not attempting to argue that they're "freer" than the US is. They still have a lot of regulations they have to follow.

Re:It's entirely possible

[jimrthy]

Soap Box

I know this is a dead horse, and way off topic, but I figure I'll get back up on my soap box.

First of all, America is not a democracy. We were never meant to be a democracy. We're a republic. I'm surprised the Founding Fathers haven't gone on a zombie rampage with all the recent talk about bringing democracy to the rest of the world.

Democracy != freedom. Democracy == rule by the mob. We elect congressmen etc. simply because the Founding Fathers hoped we'd elect enough vaguely competent & wise people to make up for most of the buffoons who run for office. We hire them to run the government because most people don't have time to study any of the issues deeply enough to make any sort of intelligent decision.

Even with that, their power is (theoretically) limited by the constitution.

Those two points combined make us a Constitutional Republic rather than a Democracy.

Companies to China

As far as all those companies (and the government) bending over backward to make headway into China...I don't really know. Could they actually be thinking long-term (as opposed to just the end of this quarter) for a change? I think America's economy might be on the brink of collapse. Maybe they figure that giving up some profits from a few industries now is worth getting their collective foot in the door. Wonder what will happen to China if the doom-and-gloom people are right about the next Great Depression being just around the bend.

Or maybe they just see that potential market of a gazillion people and figure it doesn't really matter how poor they are.

Re:It's entirely possible

[PsiPsiStar]

Okay, I've spent too much time arguing on Yahoo boards and have become rather imprecise. Yes, the US is a democratic republic. I've just gotten used to people saying "we're free and they aren't" etc. to justify their own supposed superiority. Knee jerk reaction. Sorry.

Personally, I think it's China who is taking the 'long view,' somthing that the Chinese are known for. They entice companies with short term profits, but the end result is that the Chinese will have their industrial technology. These companies going to China are either selling themselves out or investing in their competition.
Once these companies are knee deep in Chinese territory, China has an established history of selling them short.

In the Chinese view, this is the time when "sheep eat people." Just as various attempts to starve the southern states to feed the industrial north led to the American civil war, China is working to exploit their agricultural base in order to get cheap currency to buy foreign goods. In short, they're doing whatever they can to get industrial technology and the foreign currency that they need to buy advanced weapons.

Add to this the fact that China is massively corrupt, and it becomes clear why this huge influx of money isn't creating the basis for democracy.
Government (at the risk of sounding stuffy here) is pretty much a formalization of existing power relations. And China hasn't created a broad middle class. They're where we were at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution with Robber Barons, cheap labor, etc.

Also, I think some of this "globalization" trend is an effort by Western companies to counteract the power of unions and drive wages down. With industries in several labor pools, each working below capacity, any labor shortage in one pool can be made up for by switching to another.

Having been to China, I can say that there is certainly a market for high tech gadgets in the cities. The purchase of cars has soared. The roads can't take it. Internet bars are everywhere. There are more cell phones there than in the US. High tech stores run a brisk business. But you can't make software since there are no patents and so much readily available pirated software.

Don't believe any of this stuff about the Chinese switching to Linux. In sensitive govt. operations, maybe. But everywhere I went they were running pirated copies of windows.

Of course, I taught in Nanjing, which is in Jiangsu ( the wealthiest province in China) and the other provices are much different. Heck, even the rural areas of Nanjing are different. I guess what I'm trying to say is that 3rd world countries aren't typified by poverty as much as extreme disparity of wealth. There is a market for high end goods.

What ...

[Infernal Device]

All of a sudden we're experts on the Chinese internal market?

Inside China? Who knows? The State might just force all its citizens to buy it at gunpoint.

Outside China? Probably not.

Another doomed platform...

[TheNarrator]

For 90% of the target market, the only thing that matters is if it can display dhtml, flash , javascript, and multimedia as well as IE 6 Running on Windows 98 or better. Another 8% will use it if it can do these things as well as Firefox. Otherwise the target market will go down to the local internet cafe and just use ie6 on windows.

The only platform people are somewhat willing to compromise on is their mobile phone. They can't carry around their windows pc in their pocket so they'll settle for less. For the rest it will be not worth it.

It's kind of like the office suite market. The only question that matters is does the thing read and write word flawlessly every time. If it works 99% of the time it better be free or else nobody will use it.

Watch that voice change

[joe_bruin]

said the submitter: What is different is that we have faster hardware, more Internet content and users. Amazingly enough, Microsoft's Venus didn't make it out of the laboratory.

We? The article started as "Shanda did this", and then transitioned to "we did this". You see, if you're trying to plug your technology by making it appear like a legitimate Ask Slashdot, at least have the courtesy to pretend to be impartial. That and pitting it against a Microsoft research product that never existed outside the lab (six years ago) as if you're competing with it. This has to be one of the worst plugs I've seen.

More importantly....

[appleLaserWriter]

rotten resolution, if apple II didn't look good on the old Philco in the living room, why would dark-blue on blue web pages? I don't get this. sounds like somebody wrote down a dream on toilet paper when they got up, and it doesn't translate into reality.


Chinese text requires far more resolution than latin text. While you might get away with a 6x4 character grid for latin characters, very few chinese characters can be rendered at that resolution.

A set-top-box that does video chat over broadband and displays to a TV might work, but it seems unlikely that a useful amount of chinese text could be displayed on an ordinary TV.