Microsoft Books and Certifications?

ozTravman asks: "I have been doing my Microsoft MCSE exams, so far I have completed 70-270 and 79-290 and I am about to start preparing for 70-291 'Implementing, Managing, and Maintaining a Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure'. I currently work as a Systems Engineer and for the previous two tests I simply read the Microsoft Press books related to the test. However, I found those particular books to be quite useless and found that cramming for the test using Braindumps and practice exams the night before was far more effective and relevant to the test content. I did not even bother finishing the 70-290 book. So what books have other Slashdot readers have used to help them to prepare for these tests?"

Comments

MCSE Silliness

[Cyphertube]

I'll admit that once upon a time I thought the MCSE was a really cool thing.

My first clue came really early on, when back in the days of the NT 4.0 exams, I bought the official books for server administration. Then I was working on installing a server for a company and realised that these books didn't cover even half the stuff I came across.

Nowadays, I use Linux at home, and have Windows 2000 at work. My boss apparently has some MCSE training, and yet I seem to know how to handle basic Windows stuff far better than he does. We have no sensible standard policy for installing workstations (fixed size pagefiles are a good idea), no fixed maintenance schedules aside from anti-virus (how many years have most of these people gone without a defrag?), and a load of thing using more/less default settings.

I've been looking at Novell's CLP and CLE certs myself, but primarily because I want the further education. They would qualify me to run systems for a quite small company, at least at first glance.

The actual value of certifications

[gseidman]

Yeah, certifications mean nothing to people who know anything about the craft of software engineering. That right there tells you why you'd bother getting them. I've just started with a consulting company, and they require their developers to get four certifications a year (and give a bonus for each one). It isn't because the certifications make the developers better, but because it makes them more marketable to potential clients who know neither jack nor shit about software. The only criteria those potential clients have to judge a consulting company on are 1) case studies of previous projects, and 2) arbitrary measures of skill like "90% of our developers hold MCSE certifications."

Forget for the moment that you know anything about software development. Forget that you give a damn about the differences between C#, Java, C, and Perl. Forget that you actually comprehend why an object-oriented programming paradigm benefits certain kinds of software projects. You're just a guy at some company who has a business or even liberal arts degree, who understands just enough about computers to expect email to be sent and received by Outlook, and who has been tasked with replacing/upgrading some mission-critical software system by the end of the fiscal year. How do you judge who should do the work? You know all the computers at work run Microsoft [sic]. You are told by these consulting companies who are bidding on your project that the M in MCSE stands for Microsoft. You figure that's got to be good, so the company with the most MCSE thud factor sounds the best, especially if their bid is near the lowest.

That's how business is conducted in the real world. This also applies to hiring developers internally. I refer you to Paul Graham's essay on how it takes a good hacker to know a good hacker. For those unfortunate companies who do not have good hackers in their employ to judge the quality of potential developer employees/contractors, the certifications are the next best thing (however sad that may be).

I don't have any certifications at the moment, but I expect to have an MCSE within a year or so. I need to know the material so I can do my job, and that will come by actually doing it. I also need to know the material well enough to pass the tests, and for that I recommend hitting the library. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy books for this crap if I can possibly avoid it. My colleagues at this company recommend the Exam Cram series, but I found MCAD/MCSD Self-Paced Training books (from Microsoft Press) at my library, so that's what I'm using.

Re:The actual value of certifications

[dubious9]

Thank you. I agree completely. When I started reading this thread I waded through the OMG WTF! MSCE is teh SUXOR!!. However, in the real world, it may get you in the door. And anything that helps you do that is pretty much worth the effort.

I'm looking for a job right now and have my resume submitted to several different tech staffing places. Even though I'm not looking for any MS position, they *all* suggested getting an MSCE and RHCE or LPI. Right now I don't have the money to do RHCE, so I'm getting an LPI and MSCE to pad the resume.

Yes most certs are effectively useless and judged that way by the people who know. Rarely, however, do the people that know tech, bring you in for the first interview. 90% are HR people who only care about keywords and certs. "Oh we need somebody to do JNI, if this Java guy doesn't have it on his resume, then it's out-pile for him", even though, to me listing every obscure java related tech looks pretty rediculous.

At the suggestion of several people I wrote two different resumes according to who would be reading it. The dumbed-down "at-a-glace" resume for the HR people to get me in the door and the "real" version that doesn't make me look like a tool to the technical people.

In conclusion, don't knock trying to get an MSCE. Even though it sucks, it will help you. Even though its fairly worthless, it gets you in the door with people that don't know that. Furthermore, if you've gotten it without your employer paying for it it makes you look like you're doing everything you can to stay abreast of things in the indstry.

feeding a troll

[bubbaD]

/.er's make fun of Microsoft because the MCSE is only helpful in getting a job and not really learning about computers.
This has been true for a long time, and has nothing to do with "outdated knowledge." By all means get certified if it gets your foot in the door. But if you want to enjoy using computers, use un*x when you can.
Anyone who doesn't know this already should not be entering the field at all, not debating what kind of certifications to get.

Re:MCE and other certs

[chris_mahan]

At my company (fortune 500 in healthcare), in my group, we could not care less about certs. I know, because I am one of the people that reviews resumes.

I tell you what's more important: the actual experience.

If I see a resume that says:

EXPERIENCE
2003-2005 Some Medium Company,
Software engineer.
Explored, Designed, and Implemented system with Oracle and MSSQL back-ends, data import from csv, excel, access, and xml from EDI and FTP drop-offs, data processing with informatica and dts, tomcat with hibernate and spring, to browser-neutral xhtml1.1, with support for handhelds and pdf generators, with export to excel and automated rule-based email alerts.

I tell you, I read no further. I say: bring the guy in.
And somebody with the above experience: we'll bring in at no less than $90K