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White Wolf Withdraws Pay-To-Play Policy

Posted by Zonk on from the seeing-the-light dept.

WorselWorsel writes "After almost two weeks of fan outrage White Wolf has canceled plans to implement their Pay-to-Play policy. In a forum post, Philippe R. Boulle writes 'Based on all your feedback, it's obvious that the policy as currently worded is not going to accomplish these goals. So, we are pulling it off the table as a blanket policy. I realize that the proverbial genie can't be shoved back in the bottle, but the guidelines I handed to a few people at ORIGINS and posted here last week clearly need to be reworked and rethought, so please consider them withdrawn.' The withdrawal of the policy can be read in full on the forums."

6 of 74 comments (clear)

  1. The headline seems a bit premature by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative

    They've said they're going to go back and "hammer out license terms" anew. So it's not as though they've abandoned their stupid idea; they're going to try again.

    Frankly, I'd find the idea that game developers are trying to impose a license on players (particularly given that it doesn't appear to be even vaguely necessary from anyone's perspective) to be unacceptable all by itself. The terms of the license, whatever they are, are not the part that's objectionable.

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    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  2. Re:Like candy from a baby. by WorselWorsel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Where can I find a WW/WoD LARP with this kind of behavior? WW doesn't have a fantasy LARP setting and there certainly isn't any physical contact. Come on, D&D is boring gamist crap. Level based? What year is this, 1970?

  3. Ha... interesting by obeythefist · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well I RTFA, and it wasn't so bad.

    What White Wolf are saying is that if people run and use White Wolf games at conventions and charge people money to play for a *profit*, then they need to obtain a license to make said profit using White Wolf's material as the key engine for doing so. You can still play not-for-profit for the once off cost of buying the source material.

    I actually think that is fair, if people are using White Wolf IP to make a profit, White Wolf deserves the right to ask for a cut. Whether they will make some cash or not is a different question.

    The problem? RPG's are wholly creative works so all anyone needs to do is just make up their own free system and use that instead. Kinda like open source software coding but much easier to do.

    Heck, D20 system is "open" in that WoTC encourages people to make and publish (for money!) rules and content based on the core system, and they don't ask for anything in return other than the basic acknowledgement.

    --
    I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
    1. Re:Ha... interesting by iCEBaLM · · Score: 2, Informative

      What White Wolf are saying is that if people run and use White Wolf games at conventions and charge people money to play for a *profit*, then they need to obtain a license to make said profit using White Wolf's material as the key engine for doing so. You can still play not-for-profit for the once off cost of buying the source material.

      Not entirely true, charging a fee to simply cover expenses of the venue (and therefore still not for profit) seemed to also require a license fee, which was the big issue.

    2. Re:Ha... interesting by obeythefist · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let's not confuse morality with IP law here!

      You can make a tool and you can sell it on the proviso that people pay you a fee to use it. You can charge however you like, you can pay a intial purchase cost and an ongoing rent, rent only, or whatever you like.

      Now, what prevents this kind of thing from becoming rampant is our good friend the free market economy. You make a $5/month screwdriver, and the guy next door is just going to make a $5 own it for life screwdriver. Who's going to win that price battle, do you think?

      The hard part for people to accept about this is that White Wolf own the IP that you're borrowing, and they want to change their marketing model slightly. World of Warcraft is a good example of this. Once upon a time you used to buy a computer game and play it all you wanted. Now, with MMOG's, you pay rent too. White Wolf wants this kind of revenue stream, and they're entitled to charge you for it.

      As a free consumer, you get to vote with your wallet. Don't buy their stuff if you don't like the price. I sure won't be.

      --
      I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
    3. Re:Ha... interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Like any copyright owner they have a right to tell you when you can and can't use those terms and concepts and storylines in a public forum to make profit.

      No, they don't. Copyright laws don't restrict "use", only copying and distribution. Nothing done in a public, for-pay game constitutes copyright infringement. It's not distribution, it's not public performance (of the copyrighted work). It's nothing.

      If it's infringing to run a paid game at a convention, then it's equally infringing to play a free game in your home. (Compare it against distributing MP3 rips from a CD- whether you do it free private or paid public, it's still against the law)

      PS. As a side note, recall that if you own a book, you have the right to rent it out for money.