Desktop Linux Mass Migration

Rob writes "With many Linux vendors attempting to push the open source operating system as a desktop alternative to Windows, Computer Business Review reports on Novell's migration to Linux on the desktop. From the article: 'Changing any mission-critical technology is a daunting task, and despite the growing maturity of Linux as a desktop operating system, it is little wonder that the vast majority of businesses are sticking with Windows.'"

Comments

Need more apps

[seanadams.com]

That's great for Novell, but I don't think the rest of the world is going to migrate to the Linux desktop until we have some better desktop apps. Since I had fuck all to do today, I wrote a very useful one - maybe this will drive some people to our awesome platform:

#!/usr/bin/perl

$_='A=15; B=30; select(stdin); $|=1; select(stdout);$|=1; system
"stty -echo -icanon eol \001"; for C(split(/\s/,"010.010.010.010
77.77 022.020.020 330.030.030 440.044.000 055.550.000 666.060.".
"000")){D=0;for E(split(/\./,C)){F=0;for G(split("",E)){C[P][F++
][D]=G} D++}J[P]=F; I[P++] =D}%L=split(/ /,"m _".chr(72)." c 2".
chr(74)." a _m");sub a{for K(split(/ /,shift)){(K,L)=split(/=/,K
);K=L{K};K=~s/_/L/; printf "%c[K",27}}sub u{a("a=40");for D(0..B
-1){for F(0..A-1){M=G[F][D];if(R[F][D]!=M) {R[F][D]=M;a("m"."=".
(5+D).";".(F*2+5)); a("a=".(40+M).";" .(30+M));print " "x2}}}a(
"m=0;0 a=37;40")}sub r{(N)=@_;while(N--) {Q=W;W=O=H;H=Q;for F( 0
..Q-1){for D(0..O-1) {Q[F][D]=K[F][D]}}for F(0..O-1){for D(0..Q-
1){K[F][D]= Q[Q-D-1][F]}}}}sub l{for F(0..W-1){for D(0..H-1){(K[
F][D]&& ((G[X+F][Y+D])|| (X+F<0)||(X+F>=A)|| (Y+D>=B)))&& return
0}}1}sub p{for F(0..W-1){for D(0..H-1){(K[F][D]>0)&&(G[X+F][Y+D]
=K[F][D]) }}1}sub o{for F(0..W-1){for D(0..H-1){(K[F][D]>0)&&(G[
X+F][ Y+D]=0)}}}sub n{C=int(rand(P)) ;W=J[C];H=I[C];X=int(A/2)-1
;Y=0;for F(0..W-1){for D(0..H-1){K[F][D]= C[C][F][D]}}r(int(rand
(4)));l&&p}sub c{d:for(D=B;D>=0;D--){for F(0..A-1){G[F][D]||next
d}for(D2=D;D2>=0; D2--){for F(0..A-1){G[F][D2]= (D2>1)?G[F][D2-1
]:0; }}u;}}a ("m=0;0 a=0;37;40 c");print "\n\n".4x" "." "x(A-4).
"perltris\n".(" "x4)."--"xA."\n".((" "x3)."|"." "x(A*2)."|\n")xB
.(" "x4). "--"xA."\n";n;for(;;) {u;R=chr(1); (S,T)=select(R,U,V,
0.01);if(S) {Z=getc;}else {if($e++>20){Z=" ";$e=0;}else{next;} }
if(Z eq "k"){o;r(1);l||r(3);p}; if(Z eq "j"){o;X--;l||X++;p}; if
(Z eq "l"){o;X++;l||X--;p};if(Z eq " "){o;Y++;(E=l)||Y--;p;E|| c
|c|c|c|c|n||goto g;};if(Z eq "q"){last;}}g: a("a=0 m=".(B+8).";0
" ); system "stty sane"; '; s/([A-Z])/\$$1/g; s/\%\$/\%/g; eval;

Conspiracy #1483

[Anonymous Coward]

<conspiracy theory> Microsoft is paying everybody to stay on Windows<conspiracy theory/>

Re:groupware

[YrWrstNtmr]

That, and the hundreds/thousands of Access/Excel/Word apps/macros/templates that a lot of businesses rely on. Yes, they can be recreated in other platforms, but it will take a significant amount of work to do so.

Not so bad

[Anonymous Coward]

My company (~800 employees) migrated to Linux over the last two years. It was easier for us since before we mostly used Solaris or Irix. The marketing guys still use powerpoint on their laptops, but I think the rest of us get along OK. It took a while for Linux to achieve the stability of my old Sun box, but it's rock solid these days.

We have a windows terminal sever in house in case someone needs to get on Windows for a while. I have never logged into it.

Eating your own dogfood...

[Rick Zeman]

...is explaining why the java-based Linux (and OS X) GroupWise client has reached near parity with the Win32 version in GW 7 (and in terms of caching mode blows it out of the water for its updating speed). I can see where Joe or Jane User would have complained LOUDLY with the 6.5x version.

What about MacTel?

[gbulmash]

I've got to say the Linux desktop has become a truly viable option for large-scale corporate deployments. That said, there are still niggling questions about its long-term viability as a desktop OS.

With the BSD ports collection, the slick Apple interface, many great OSS options being multi-platform anyway, and virtualizing XP for the few XP apps I can't let go of... Why not just go MacTel when I buy my next PC in '06 or '07?

IMO, MacTel could be a Linux killer, or at least help keep it a niche OS instead of a major mainstream competitor.

- Greg

Re:What about MacTel?

[NutscrapeSucks]

No. Real Numbers state the cheapest PowerMac is $2000 and that's what being bought.

Shared video is absolutely not a problem for business PCs, and regardless real video is a cheap upgrade. Furthermore, I explained exactly why Minis are not being purchased, if you bother to read that far. A $550 PC might be junk, but it is fast, functional junk and that's what we need. Finally, this is not a game we're playing, this is real money being spent.

Re:What about MacTel?

[at_slashdot]

IMO, MacTel could be a Linux killer, or at least help keep it a niche OS instead of a major mainstream competitor.

IMO, this is the silliest idea I heard lately.
MacTel will kill Linux when:
1. it will be free
2. it will be gratis
3. it will not be dumbed down.
4. it will work on just as many architectures as Linux does.

Simplicity & Connectivity: Keys to the Deskto

[reporter]

Most people are not technically savy like the SlashDot crowd. The average American likes Windows because it is relatively simple to install and to connect to the Internet.

Note that AOL builds an ISP dialup client only for Windows, not Linux.

If we expect Linux to make a dent in the desktop market, Linux distributions must change radically. They must be as simple to install as MacOS X, a very-simple-to-install UNIX variant. We need the ISPs to board the Linux train by building dialup clients. Yes. Much of America still uses dial, and in the dialup market, AOL is still #1.

I absolutely admire Linux, and if my ISP would provide the same kind of support, for Linux, that my ISP provides for Window, I would switch my AMD-powered desktop over to Linux. Otherwise, I'll wait for the Apple x86 box and switch from Linux to FreeBSD. I prefer Linux; it's got the cooler icon: the penguin.

By the way, some hackers will likely provide the necessary software patch to enable x86 MacOS to run on any IBM PC clone. If the Apple x86 box garners 10% or more of the market, then most of the ISPs will gleefully provide support for UNIX connectivity. Perhaps, the title of this article should be "Simplicity & Connectivity & A Matter of Time for the UNIX Juggernaut called Apple".

unified clipboard

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing that I think would help a lot is a unified clipboard. And I'm not talking about the X clipboard eithor. There needs to be a clipboard that unifies qt and gtk based programs AS WELL AS commandline. As more people switch there will be better apps, however the unified clipboard needs to be worked out as soon as possible...

Re:Funny that

[pnagel]

You install an in-development package from the experimental Sid distribution - and when it fails say Linux is not ready for the Desktop?

By that argument, Windows XP is not ready for the desktop either, because Longhorn build nr. 1823 b0rked some computer somewhere.

Re:Devuce drivers

[morgan_greywolf]

Already been solved. Try a nice, recent Linux distribution like Fedora Core 3/4 or Knoppix or SuSE 9 with good autodetection. Running Fedora 3, and even with lots of oddball hardware, the only thing that failed to detect properly was my free webcam from Comcast. Lots of other USB webcams, digital cameras, my Epson C66 printer, various pointing devices, DVD+RW drive, USB flash drives, etc., were all automatically detected and installed.

Not a fanboy post...

[UncleRage]

...well mostly, not.

I've got a Sales/Service/Repair/LAN Gaming shop in a small (>5k population) town. 18 months ago, I began a test. I sold two of my clients (an 80+ year old grandmother and a mid 40's professional) a custom built box w/ Gentoo installed. (Actually, the formula was a gentoo install w/ a dyndns service so that I could remotely update the system and install packages -- with their knowledge and consent, of course).

To this date, I have not had their system back in the shop.

Two months ago, I began selling low to midrange systems running (k)Ubuntu. The systems are built on Asus mobos and AMD Semprons (higher end CPU's available upon request). The distro detects and configures all devices on install... and auto detects just about every USB device I've thrown at it (from input devices (read gamepads) to scanners).

As far as application support. Crossover Office handles the needs for Photoshop, MS Office (not 2k3, yet...), Dreamweaver, Flash MX, iTunes, IE, etc...

And, using (k)Ubuntu, application installation is easier than ever with Synaptic. Open the app, click an application and install. No depencies, no mucking around w/ CLI's, no problem.

I'm also moving quite a few Thinkpad X21's w/ Ubuntu and Crossover office. At an average price of $350 for a preconfigured linux based thinkpad w/ all the snazzy little thinkpad keys working... they move well.

Anyhow... I just wanted to chime in with the obligatory "Hang on, it's getting there" remark.

Re:Accountability

[kebes]

Good point, accountability is important. Let us keep in mind, however:

1. Proprietary software vendors (including Microsoft) limit their liability to a considerable extent. The EULA basically stipulates that they are not responsible, and that, for instance, the software should not be used in life-and-death applications, etc. This limited liability can be modified by buying increased support and coverage from some company (which is often the company selling the proprietary software). Thus, you can pay Microsoft and they will provide certain guarantees, with a contract, and this will create a chain of accountability.

2. If you download a linux distro and install it on your computer, you do so at your own risk. The license clearly states that the software is free, and provided as-is, with no guarantees. However, you can purchase additional support and coverage from companies. For instance, you can pay Red Hat to give you a linux distro that they support, and they will provide certain guarantees, with a contract, and this creates a chain of accountability.

So I don't think the situation is any different in Windows vs. Linux when it comes to accountability. In both cases, if accountability and liability are important for your application, then you will pay some company (Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Red Hat, etc.) to provide you with guarantees. The company will analyze your mission-critical application, make recommendations, and state whether or not their support and suggested software can run your application properly. You have to pay for the support, for insurance, and for their guarantee of functionality. This is the same for proprietary and F/LOSS solutions.

You pay for accountability in both cases, with professional Engineers signing off on everything... but in one case you can save money on the cost of the raw licenses (and associated administrative hassles). Plus, linux is at least 10 times better.

I'm surprised more haven't switched

[Ritz_Just_Ritz]

Most office drones that I know and work with seem to have rather simple needs on their business PC. They use Word for documents, Excel for spreadsheets, Outlook for email and IE for surfing the Web.

As long as those programs work and the navigation is similar to Windows, they're happy. The fact that they don't have to worry about virus infections, spyware, random crashes is a bonus.

From the CIO standpoint, it's a win (as long as all your core applications work and people can transition easily to the new "look and feel." The CIO/CFO are now off the forced upgrade merry-go-round each time Microsoft decides to foist "upgrades" on their customers.

I have converted my company to the following:
CentOS 3 (clone of RHEL 3)
OpenOffice
Thunderbird for email
Firefox for web browsing

We have a few people with Compaq presario laptops that didn't seem to mix well with Linux (driver issues) so we're swapping in Linux friendly notebooks and donating the Compaq units to charity. The tax credit for the charitable donation makes the purchase of the new notebooks pretty much a wash. We also had to punt a couple of printers and replace them with Linux friendly postscript networked printers. That was rather painless and surprisingly cheap. (Again, we donated them to charity and took the tax credit.)

The next step is to migrate all our servers off of Win2K server. That includes office file servers and web servers. We migrated mail and DNS to Linux a few years ago so that will be a painless move (to CentOS). So every system in the company will be running the same OS and we'll maintain our own internal yum repository to keep things in sync and up to date.

Prior to this, we were probably spending a few hundred thousand dollars a year just in software licensing fees. The IT folks are pretty happy about the change since it makes their life easier in terms of support (we sent the entire group for "RH linux certification" as an incentive to be good sports about the change. After some initial grumbling from the hard core MCSE guys, the overall mood seems to be one of relief...both from the "guys on the ground" and from the "guys who pay the bills."

Cheers,

Did anyone RTFA?

[Linegod]

I know this is /. and no one RTFA, but the 'executive summary' at the top doesn't match the content of the article.

It summarizes the article with "despite the growing maturity of Linux as a desktop operating system, it is little wonder that the vast majority of businesses are sticking with Windows." and then provides two examples.

The first states "Novell had made savings of $900,000 on Microsoft Windows and Office licences as well as maintenance costs from the move." and "A voluntary migration also saw the company beat its goal to get 50% of users onto Linux by the end of October 2004." and the second says ""We came to the conclusion that our requirements are really only met by a commercial distributor" - that commercial distribution being RedHat.

How the fuck did any of this get spun as 'vast majority of businesses are sticking with Windows'?

Re:Desktop Integration, X, GTK/QT, /etc, etc

[Master of Transhuman]

"between GUI world and Console/Kernel world."

And Windows has this integration exactly how?

"X is to Linux as Win 3.1 was to Dos." Not even close. X is a display server. Win 3.1 was a shell on DOS. X can run remote displays. Try that with Windows 3.1. (Not to say X doesn't have its problems, but they're being debated and addressed as we speak, supposedly.)

"But it's still there."

You've never looked at your Windows boot log, have you?

"it's no registry."

Thank God, the Windows Registry is the dumbest fucking idea Microsoft ever had. A nightmare single point of failure with no documentation and apparently no rules.

Text config files are infinitely to be preferred over such a thing. Especially when there are now numerous GUI tools that front-end them and do vetting of your choices so you don't have to worry about typos.

"It would be an almost impossible task to write a GUI to manage all the disparate Linux components as elegantly as Mac OS X or Windows does."

Never heard of Webmin, have you?

And since when is Windows "elegant" in handling its component configuration? You've never used Windows Server 2003, have you?

"I use Linux every day, and I can tell you, I fully understand why people hesitate to adopt it - despite the fact it's free."

No, you're a Windows astroturfer trying to convince people that Linux has fatal flaws and covering your ass with that lame remark.

This is the latest gambit from Windows trolls - pretend to be Linux users "dissatisfied" with Linux or only wanting to suggest "improvements" to Linux. You see it everywhere now on the Linux boards. They give themselves away by their lack of real knowledge about what is available on Linux and how Linux works.

Re:Simplicity & Connectivity: Keys to the Desk

[debest]

This article (and reality) are about converting enterprise desktops from Windows to Linux. In a 5000+ seat environment, "simple to install" and AOL compatibility are just not issues at all!

Linux at home is not going to be at all common for a long time yet. But in big business, Linux on the desktop would be very interesting. The lack of viruses and needing to keep track of licenses could save a lot of admin headaches. Of course, the current love affair with Exchange and MS Office, the lack of native support for big enterprise software, and reliance on VBScript-filled apps in Access and Excel are the real reasons for difficulty in migrating a big company to Linux on the desktop.

Re:Simplicity & Connectivity: Keys to the Desk

[ChairmanMeow]

The average American likes Windows because it is relatively simple to install

The average American doesn't install Windows. They buy the computer with Windows preinstalled, and when their copy of Windows gets to the condition that it needs to be reinstalled, they throw out the computer and get another one.

Re:groupware

[Patoski]

is probably the single most important reason to use Windows,
Outlook 2k3 + Exchange/SBS + ACL is a good business solution (even if it is >2000$)
until Linux can replicate the suites functionality and ease of use (for admin+users alike) our enterprise will be sticking with a Windows thanks

Funny that you mention Exchange for a couple of reasons...

First because MS decided that Exchange 2003 was going to be their new cash cow. So 2k3 is licensed *per client*. Which means if you have 5000 clients you are going to be paying through the nose! $2,000? Hah! That'll run ya ~$200,000 for a few thousands clients or so...

Second because you have OpenXchange (from Novell) which will emulate an Exchange server and talk to Outlook clients. Not to mention Evolution (Novell again) which will talk to an Exchange 2k/2k3 server with their connector software.

Re:Time traveller...

[IntergalacticWalrus]

"My FC4 has two clipboards, one is the auto-copy-when-highlighted, paste with a middle click; the other is the ctrl-c to copy, ctrl-x to cut, ctrl-v to paste. They can hold different things at the same time."

And this is a bad thing because...?

The average user won't use the middle-click-paste anyway, so I really don't see why the concept of having two clipboards for two different kinds of copy-pastings is so wrong.

WPA

[UncleRage]

3 answers ;)

1. Ubuntu does provide a build of wpasuplicant (latest version is 0.3.8, I believe), which provides WPA support.

2. When I have them. I picked up a lot of Thinkpad X21's (700 MHz PIII's) and a handful of NC4200's (1.8 GHz P4 Compaq subs). I'm down to the last of the 4200's right now and am searching for my next supply. Regardless of the OS installed (Linux or Windows), any laptop we sell is ready for war flight.

3. Not really. Our website is sorely out of date and doesn't currenty handle any commerce. I'm just beginning to focus on sales. If I can move another 5 to 10 units as quickly as this last lot... I'll look into the whitebook market. At this time, it's primarily EOL and rebuilding for local clients.

However, if you'd like some help moving in the right direction... I'd be more than happy to offer any assistance I can. Pop me an email at serviceATcompletepcDOTbiz.

Funny thing about all this... I just spent nearly an hour on the phone Friday w/ MS propoganda division. The nice lady on the other end of the phone was trying to make sure I had all the information I needed to help convert any Mac and any Linux clients over. Everytime I look at my MS Action Pack, I get a wee shiver down my spine. But I suppose it's good to have one foot in the shadows... if for no other reason than to bring it up on ./ ;)

Nice site, btw. Love the "Got Evil" bags. Might have to pick one up for my wife.

I'd switch to a Linux desktop today...

[SleepyHappyDoc]

if I had someone to help me when it breaks. I've dallied with Debian and now Gentoo, but each of them has ended up broken (due directly to my own ignorance) to the point where fixing it to make it usable was beyond my knowledge. I'm not a stupid person. I know how to google, and I know that the best answer to a question is a source of information, rather than a set of instructions, but it's not always easy to know what to ask or how to get the responses you need, and even if you do, often you're ignored anyways. I'd love to see a distro step up to address this, maybe with some kind of voluntary mentor/buddy system, where an experienced user 'adopts' a newbie and offers periodic, light email or chat help when needed, till the new user gets sufficiently knowledgeable to fix things herself (at which time, said user could become a mentor for a newer user if they so choose, perpetuating things). This is what keeps me on Windows, and a bit of my soul dies every time I turn the thing on, but I can fix it if it breaks (which, of course, it does).