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HP Embraces Linux for its Toughest Servers
Colmao writes "Investor's Business Daily wrote up an article interviewing Martin Fink, the head of HP's NonStop Unit. From the article'In a move that suggests Linux is finally ready for prime time, Hewlett-Packard is giving the free software a bigger role on some of its toughest servers.' NonStop servers are HP's most costly machines. They are designed to be always on, mission critical appliances. They are used to run some of the world's stock markets. Linux is making big moves in the datacenter and getting some much needed exposure."
..but I'm glad that the machines my bank uses to hande their online banking site are #6, #7 and #8 on this list.
I don't really remember, that there would have ever been any unavailablilities due to them. (But due to my ISP? Yes.)
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
They have long touted HP-UX as their non-stop platform, but this seems to me somewhat as a concession that it, well, sucks and they need something more adoptable by the mainstream.
I really think HP has the some of the best hardware in the market, particularly the superdome and friends, so hopefully this will help them.
Jerry
http://www.cyvin.org/
I would be very apprehensive about trying to graft the NonStop technology into the Linx kernel. Running Linux as a process under Guardian, just like IBM runs Linux under VM, makes a lot more sense.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Further, IBM has spent enormous sums of money to ensure that Linux is reliable. IBM will soon discover that this aspect of Linux is the Achille's heel of open source. By using Linux, HP essentially gets a free ride from IBM and need not spend the money to ensure that Linux is reliable. IBM has already done the work.
I can already hear the grinding of the reduction-in-force axe at the OS department of HP.
Thanks for the correct link.
Having found the correct article, I'll be interested to see if this ever sees the light of day. I did spend a bit of time working on Tandem Non-Stop systems (since acquired by Compaq, and hence, by HP).
Working on Tandems was kind of like visiting another planet and seeing how an alien race might do operating systems. Hardware-wise, everything is redundant - from the CPUs, to the power supplies, to the system bus. Supposedly, a failure in any one component couldn't bring the system down. Everything was designed to survive a failure. Creating a fault tolerant system was supposed to be easy - except that all the software had to be designed to respond appropriately to a failure event.
The system could definitely use an upgrade using Linux. It was limited to eight character file names (no filename extensions) and you could use directories and subdirectories - only. There was no such thing as a subdirectory of a subdirectory. Just two levels.
The operating system was built around a messaging system that was fast enough for ATM transactions, but was useless for batch type data crunching operations (unfortunate, since somebody at this shop had selected it to do exactly that task.)
If they're thinking about this on the same lines as the original vision of the NonStop operating system, the version of Linux that comes of this will be completely non-applicable to any hardware but HP's. Everything will need to be rewritten/tweaked. Starting with Linux will help their other deficiencies, but will result in a really weird Linux derivative.
But in the end, IMHO, the whole concept is flawed because, while interesting, it only addressed component failure and not disasters such as fires or tornados, etc. At the same time I was working on this system, I read a story about a mass transit system in Denmark automatically (and successfully) failing over to another system in another city as a result of a fire. That seemed far more robust. And those systems were running OpenVMS.
that you may be able to now use Linux-based tools for development and the cross-compiler
HP already have more than a little experience with just what you describe
"The book ia-64 linux kernel by David Mosberger and Stephane Eranian was extremely helpful"
from: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/
in this (very instructive) article: "Porting OpenVMS to HP Integrity Servers"
(Integrity is one line below Superdome, both Itanium - based. Superdome IA-64 is just coming together now.)
hmm, 'kay that doesn't mean they used Linux tools, but it does mean they are sitting on some very recent and very applicable knowledge.
Not being a fan of Linux, for historical reasons, as much as other more practical ones, i nonetheless truly appreciate how OSS just affected positively one of the most closed - source OSs still out there.
(okay, VMS used to be available with source on microfiche, but that's not my point)
More apologies for forgetting to factor in the BSD/IIS combinations. Those are probably Windows/IIS boxes running through BSD proxies.
"My bad," as the kids say.
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
This (virtual)article looks like a followup interview on a RedHat event mid june, where Fink talked about the possibility to run linux natively(as opposed to virtual). It got some coverage then, eg ,
5 /0613linux2.html">here.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/200
Yahoo news has the new interview. It's mentioned in one of the first posts here.
These are systems that are really pretty cool. And really freaking expensive.
They have nothing to do with HP-UX or Unix of any kind. They are Tadem machines (feel free to look that up).
These are rather slow but super reliable machines with a bizzare OS that has had features for decades that mainstream os's still don't have. Take the current clustering and grid tech and meld it all together and you get something like the tandem. The company I work for came out of the tandem space. The typical intro to the machines for new hires is to note that you can smash one with a sledge hammer and you won't lose any transactions.
Who uses these things? Banks, Banks, Banks, Airlines, Governement, Dell, etc...
They (HP) have been working on a unixy layer to run on top of the tandem os for a number of years now. Apparently this hasn't been going too well. Sounds like Linux might help them do something similar to IBM and the VMs on the mainframe.
They did, and still do, run an OS called "Guardian". Superduper fault tolerant. Severely limited by hardware speed, but hardware speed is not the intent in applications that use Tandems.
On top of that, there's a UNIX-like layer that you can use, if you so desire, called OSS ("Open Systems Services"), but it's really just a graft on top of Guardian.
I bet they're just going to replace OSS with Linux, keeping Guardian at the bottom. There's far too much existing software out there, in big time clients (banks and so forth).
"They have long touted HP-UX as their non-stop platform..."
I knew I was going to see this as soon as I saw the article.
NonStop is a platform all its own. It has nothing to do with HP-UX or the HP 9000 line. NonStop used to be called "Tandem". IIRC, DEC bought Tandem, Compaq bought DEC, and HP bought Compaq, which is how it ended up in HP's hands. Somewhere along the line, it got renamed to "NonStop".
HP-UX might be appropriate if you need 99.999% uptime. NonStop is appropriate when five nines isn't even close to what you need. This is totally fault-tollerant hardware. You can loose a processor, a memory bank, even a system bus and the system keeps right on going. Very high-end, esoteric stuff.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
HP's last few decisions about the Tandem line haven't worked out too well. After acquiring Tandem, they moved that product line over to PA-RISC. (Remember PA-RISC, HP's very own microprocessor line?) As PA-RISC sank, they had to move to another processor.
They picked the Itanium. Oops.
NonStop customers are getting very nervous.
My big hope is that one day Compaq will become "HP's Desktop Linux brand" so that it can ship Linux PCs without losing Windows OEM licences on the HP side. Its the best shot for any major PC company supporting Linux on the desktop in the near future.
Open Source Sushi
The point is, Fink is not interested in anything but getting buzz by leveraging brand names. He's admitted that to us internally. He's basically set things up where he can just take the NonStop brand and stick the label on something else and you the customers are supposed to be none the wiser.
For those of you who think there is actually a chance doing what Fink says in the article instead of simply reappropriating the brand name, ask yourself who's left among the Tandem/NonStop folks to work on it. Oops, nevermind. Ask yourself that question a couple of weeks from now.