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IE7 Bugs and Reviews
An anonymous reader wrote to mention a Register article in which the possibility is raised of the current build dumping Yahoo and Google toolbars. At the same time, GWBasic writes "I've posted a review on IE 7 Beta 1. It is very clear that, unlike when Microsoft targeted Netscape, they are using their classic method of producing superior software by catering to the needs of the user. This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design." Flexbeta and ZDNet have looks at the new browser as well.
Yup, Microsoft looks like it made a poor imitation of Firefox. But hey, according to Microsoft apologists, nothing exists until Microsoft (re)invents it. So there you go.
But the next time someone says "OSS only copies from Microsoft", remind them of IE7.
The only thing that could be called truly new is the combined dropdown box for Back and Forward. Interesting idea, but it's certainly not "a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
LordBodak's journal.
The only feature in IE7 that I need is the ability to download the lastest version of Firefox.
I'm so glad IE is supporting tabbed browsing. Now when you visit a malicious website, it will be able to open up multiple tabs and install 30 pieces of adware / spyware / malware simultaneously. Isn't progress wonderful?
They completely broke the UI.
First they violate their own guidelines by removing the menu from the top of the window. To boot, they made the UI a whacked around version of every other browser UI, with the back and forward buttons at the top next to the address and search bars, but the home button elsewhere and stop/reload mashed into one button at the other end of the address bar. They also don't have a dropdown menu on the back button, which is essential for getting away from sites that break that functionality.
Suffice it to say, this is what we've got for "progress" thanks to microsoft's browser dominance. No true significant advancements in the technology because microsoft's held it stagnant for so long. Thankfully they've got competition now, so maybe things can improve.
They've still got a long way to go.
Yes, and what's worse: MS' anti-phishing technique involves sending each link you click to Microsoft for verification against a blacklist. Scary, if you ask me.
'We advise you not to click on that link to cracks.am, which is a well known phishing site.' Oops, or is it?
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
At least the author is pretty open about his bias. The writer goes on and on about the usability of IE, but proves he knows jack-shit about usability with three simple sentences:
"When only one tab is open, the tab bar is visible. At the right of all tabs is a small tab that immediately opens a new tab. This would make more sense as a button immediately to the right of the X to close a tab."
Yeah, that's sensible, put the "open new" button right next to the "close" button, that'll make sense for 99% of the population who don't have perfectly precise mastery of the mouse pointer. He also talks about dropping non-IE browsers years ago because they were "unpolished" but then mentions he switched to CrazyBrowser, which is a cluttered mess in its default configuration! The entire article screams of unprofessionalism.
But if it is a solid browser, that addresses the shortcomings of IE 6, then it will do what it needs to do...
All it NEEDS to do is catch-up. Microsoft is in the position of dominance, and all they need to do is produce something 'good enough.' It is the upstarts that need to aspire to 'great.'
Because, being good enough, and coming installed on 90% of the computers sold is a very powerful combination.
Not to mention the fact that it still has the IE specific features that people use. It is the only browser that runs a good percentage of the WYSIWYG editors out there. And people will keep using it because of things like that.
No reason to lie.
I think the problem is, as this guy said, "I stopped using non-Microsoft browsers over two years ago because I found them to be unpolished." That is the only possible explanation for how he thinks that IE7 isn't "borrowing from the competition."
List of things borrowed:
1) Search bar
2) Tabs
3) Tabs in context menus
4) Not passing the acid test
5) TINY REFRESH BUTTONS THAT ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO CLICK ON OMGZ?
That is all.
It means that the reviewer doesn't know what he's talking about. Sharnig Stop and Refresh is a *GOOD* idea? So if I want to stop a page, and it finishes just as I'm about to click it, the Stop button becomes THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what I want to do! That's screen-smashingly stupid!
Didn't read the article, did you? The author admits to only beeing experienced in the use of the 'Crazy browser' browser. He states that the new features in IE7 are not copies of features from other browsers. It is obvious from this that he hasn't used Safari or Firefox, which combined have implement every feature he lists except for the merged history. Even the design decisions on tabs, like the single close button at the right, is stolen verbatim from Firefox, which the author is obviously oblivious to.
You want IE7? Use Safari or Firefox.
Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
The Slashdot introduction says "This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
I'm sorry but that is about as wrong as it can be. Every single "new" feature mentioned in the article is already present in every other browser that I know of as a built-in feature or an add-on. This refresh of IE is clearly borrowed from the competition. Unless IE7 includes more changes than what was mentioned in the article, it will still be behind the day it comes out in Vista/Longhorn.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
From what I've read so far (direct from MSDN), there's nothing that significantly improves the lives of web developers. Only 2 of the many CSS bugs have been resolved, no improvement in CSS implementation/support, no good debug tools.
So IE7 will continue holding us back.
Does no one find bitching about a beta a little less than productive?
Well to be fair IE 7 is a very important product release, whether it's a blazing success, or a tremendous dud. A beta 1 is usually fairly feature complete.
Having said that, the so-called review was inane, poorly written, and obviously hacked together in no-time to try to get some namespace. The "reviewer" basically just shows a couple of screenshots, and hilariously claims that this is some great new paradigm, and it isn't IE 6 with some tweeks. No, my reviewing friend, IE 7 is IE 6 with some tweaks, and in some ways is inferior to some of the IE 6 "mods" (like MaxIE) released years ago. Perhaps there is something extraordinary hidden in there, but thus far it has been the most astounding is this it???? ever. That "reviewer" is yet another lame astroturfer praying that Bill Gates might read his gloating, tripping over himself "review" and hire him (which are pretty common, and universally pathetic).
You're absolutely right. In the absence of any real functional difference people will simply use the browser already installed (ie. IE).
The only real disadvantage IE 7 has is that it will only be available for XP SP2. And IE 7 is not a big enough carrot to get people to upgrade when they can get the same functionality with Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape for free.
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
"This is not IE 6 with a few features borrowed from the competition, but rather a clear step in the evolution of user-centric design."
Wow, that's the funniest and most completely bullshit sentence I have read all year. Nobody cares about the "evolution of user-centric design" (what the fuck is that supposed to mean, anyway? It's just 100% PR waffle, straight from the arse of a dihorettic bull), the general public variety of users don't know what they want, don't really care and shouldn't be given any say in the matter anyway.
It's us DEVELOPERS who have to put up with the "nuances" (and that's being polite) of Microsoft's sub standard browser offering. It's our employers who pay us a fortune in man hours so that we can work round these "nuances". And it's our future careers that depend on browse consistency and the full implementation of standards like SVG and CSS3. I am absolutely gutted that Microsoft failed on every level to implement worthwhile technologies and bring their browser up to scratch, they insult us developers by implementing long-overdue PNG transparency which we can't use until everyone has switched away from IE5/6 anyway, and claim to have "improved" their abysmal CSS support.
Who gets the real benefit from the new IE? The people who matter most. The mindless drones who will lap up any offering from MS, or get it installed on their PC automatically whether they like it or not. The people too stupid to have switched to a better browser already. The brain-dead end users have their silly tabs and phishing scam (read: user stupidity) filter, and we get nothing.
Even if this is "just a beta" it demonstrates not days, not months, but YEARS... yes YEARS of freaking work and does not include any significant changes. It doesn't even deserve a new version number. We all know it already, but Windows is a joke, IE is a joke, and Microsoft are a joke who can't be bothered to do anything properly because as long as idiot uneducated users lap up their crappy products they have an enduring monopoly and there is not a damned thing we can do about it.
I say us developers should lobby our employers to sue over lost profits. Microsofts failure to implement standards means we are still unable to deliver cutting edge software to our users, and we still have to put up with IE's goddamned quirks. Microsoft should be sued by every company on earth with its hand in web development and FORCED to bring their crap-pile browser up to scratch and keep it that way instead of pissing away their time making sure the browser interface is just the right degree of "fucking confusing" to send any sane persons hatrid of IE into critical mass.
For lack of a better ending. GRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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erm, so like firefox didn't borrow those from opera
your point?
Erm, so like I said the competition, not "just Firefox." Is Opera part of the competition? Why, yes, my dear man, I do believe so. Thank you.
My point is that the thing the guy in the article said about not borrowing from the competition is wrong. That should have been clear if you read my post.
Microsoft's problem is that they're caught between two conflicting objectives under a common goal: They need to make sure that the operating system is the defining element of the PC. In order to do that, they try to a) keep the browser competition at bay and b) reduce the appeal of the (standards based) web. These are mutually exclusive objectives. They can't offer an excellent browser, because that would shift the focus from the OS to the web. They can't offer a lousy browser, because that would drive their customers to the competition and consequently loosen Microsoft's grip on the accepted web technologies.
Mediocrity is the design goal for IE7.
1. Profit! ... ?
2. Profit!
3. Profit!
4. Profit!
5.
6. Catch Up
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I spent my yesterday morning screwing around with IE 7 and the truth is, it wants to be firefox really bad, but it's just not good enough. I admit that I am biased, but I have always used the browser I thought was superior, which means I used IE6 for a long time. After rebooting twice from the installation, it broke trillian and anything with a web browser control, that's probably related to it being a beta product though. The browser itself isn't even a reasonable duplicate of firefox. The tabs are an afterthought at best. I didn't find a way to bookmark tabgroups and the top two bars were locked in place, only the file menu and nav buttons could be moved. It was generally disagreeable and I had to remove it. This is my opinion: IE7 is a steaming turd that has been roughly molded to resemble firefox, just don't touch it, smell it, or _use_ it and it's fine.
So far, only development versions of Safari and Konqueror do.
I'm not sure when they'll be available for public consumption, but the compliant Konqueror should be released with KDE 3.5.
Never start vast projects with half-vast ideas.