Parents Need To Be Informed

GamerDad writes "Dave Long looks at the recent gaming controversy and lays the blame squarely on the parents. 'If you didn't talk to them about this game before buying it for your child, then you chose to be uninformed and there's nothing myself, the game maker, the retailer or the government can do to help you. The information is out there. In fact, it's right here on GamerDad. Be smarter next time and take a couple minutes to check it out.'"

Comments

Use common sense and TALK to our kids?

[BlackCobra43]

Where's the fantastic lawsuit opportunities in THAT? It'll never fly.

Right on!

[negative3]

Abso-fucking-lutely! I love GTA:SA but would have to be brain damaged to let little kids play it. Whatever happened to parental responsibility?

Re:Right on!

[Pxtl]

Heheh, I actually saw GTA:Vice City sold to a parent once. The clerk quietly explained to her that the game contained violence, picking up prostitutes, shooting cops, etc. She walked over to her 11ish-year-old boy, discussed the matter with him briefly, and bought the game.

Nice, eh?

Also, the ESRB needs to establish a firm guideline on disabled content (which is different from "hidden" content that can be enabled through cheats, etc.) Many games have forgotten or ignored content. For example, there were several clean titles based on the classic Doom and Wolf3d engines (Chex Quest, Noah's Ark) etc. These games were very childish, but the horrible Doom monsters - complete with gory deaths - were still packed into the wadfiles. They just never made an appearance in-game. Likewise, games may have localization data or similar left in that may be controversial in different areas.

The ESRB needs to make a firm policy on the game _data_ as distinct from the game _content_ (content is stuff in the game - data is stuff in the files). Hot Coffee was not physically in the game anywhere - it was physically on the media, but there was no way to access it in-game. The ESRB needs clear guidelines on this.

The future considerations of the medium may make this more complicated. After all, in the future, technological solutions to problems may involve throwing clothes over nude models (a-la Maya cloth). This may go so far as to include nipples for the purpose of providing headlights. Therefore, a trivial hack would be to remove the clothes.

Re:Right on!

[sykjoke]

I used to go hunting when I was a child and haven't killed anyone I know about. Compair that the the unreality of GTA's which is only slightly more interesting movie. What did you do when you were young? stay indoors all day and get mollycoddled by you parents. Gees, most people I went to school with saw no end of horror movies and porn, and I don't believe any of them have ever been arrested for violent behavior or sexual assault.

Misplaced critcism...

[It doesn't come easy]

If you bought this game for your son or daughter under the age of seventeen, then you should have known this.

Yes, but the original rating was M for Mature, meaning anyone under 17 had to have a parent or guardian's permission to have the game. This means it was legal for Rockstar Games to sell the game to minors with permission. However, for explicit sexual content you must be 18 or older. By the description (I haven't seen it myself) it would probably be classified as pornography, making it illegal to sell to minors (it would no longer be up to a permissive guardian). Originally selling the game with an M rating when in fact it could be classified as pornography could actually be a rather serious issue for Rockstar Games.

Re:Misplaced critcism...

[TripMaster Monkey]

By the description (I haven't seen it myself) it would probably be classified as pornography, making it illegal to sell to minors (it would no longer be up to a permissive guardian).

Perhaps you should actually see it before you pass judgement...

I think you'll agree that calling this bit-mapped mess 'pornography' is a serious stretch of the term.

Re:Misplaced critcism...

[Seraphim1982]

Does the texture mod actually ADD the nude skins? I was under the impression that they were in a state similar to the minigame. Specifically that they were already included in the game, but wern't used by anything, and that they were simply activated by a 2nd mod.

Pornography? Give me a break.

[brunes69]

The content was **not accessable** through normal gameplay - it was only accessable via modding.

Classifying this as pornography is like saying that Pocahontas should be classified as pornography, because some clever video editing can remove that leather dress. The modded game is not the same as the game as sold, it is a different game.

The whole charade is ridiculous.

Re:Pornography? Give me a break.

[Otter]

The modded game is not the same as the game as sold, it is a different game.

I think that's a valid point, but it has nothing to with Dave Long's complaining that parents should have somehow deduced the presence of the unlockable content from the box labels.

More like "ObviousDad".

[Seumas]

So parents should assume responsibility for the entertainment their kids consume? Duh.

Really, worrying about videogames should be the bottom of your list. Your kids will encounter far worse influences and situations and threats just going to school every day. Kids aren't stupid. I remember being a kid and tits never warped me or turned me into a sadistic sex fiend (something else is to blame for that). Violent games and television didn't turn me into Manson or a highway sniper. Have some common sense and realize that your kids understand media far better than you ever will and your fears are baseless and stupid.

Seriously, what videogame out there has or could turn any normal kid into a sadistic killer or something, unless he's a fucking deranged ass from a totally dysfunctional and useless family in the first place? Getting a divorce or smacking your spouse around does a million times the damage to a kid that every ounce of television and videogame violence and sex combined could ever do.

Re:More like "ObviousDad".

[Seumas]

I don't know . . . As a still 20-something who remembers being a little kid, I don't think kids have the difficulty of grasping things that we think they do. Sure, when you're ten years old, you might not realize the lack of reality with regard to certain elements - but children know right from wrong. They know know when something is obviously dangerous or deadly or flat-out wrong. We're not talking about kids misunderstanding rocket-science or astronomy here.

If kids were really that stupid and impressionable (as we seem to claim they are), then you would have far more kids immitating that stupid "tate" punk in Florida who killed a (six year old?) girl by bodyslamming her or whatever with his stupid fat ass because he was immitating pro wrestling (but I guess sports and entertainment sports are okay to watch - just not sex or fake violence). If kids were so impressionable little kids would be killing each other with nunchucks and bodyslamming each other to death all over the place.

As a kid, I grew up with violence and porn and everything else and I turned out alright. Sure, I have a disgusting sense of humor, but I've never commited a violent crime or done jail time or gotten a speeding or parking ticket or failed to pay a debt on time.

I think wise parents would let their kids watch or read or play whatever they wanted. As long as you observe your children, you will pick up on whether or not they understand things, what needs to be explained - and be available to answer questions they might have. But if you just go out and say "I want to be a GOOD parent, so I will not let my child play anything not rated E or watch anything not rated G or read anything other than the Bible", you're just taking the cheap way out. Strict parenting is just as bad as no parenting at all, because it doesn't take involvement or intelligence to just lay down a flat rule and say "OBEY ME". It's another thing to let children be curious and experience everything and explain where necessary. That's where the "Guidance" part of, say, PG movies comes in. But a lot of parents just don't want to bother.

And sure, I probably wouldn't let my kid watch hardcore porn - but I wouldn't disallow them from watching a movie just because there was a boob or an ass or even some genitals on the screen. Actually, I'd be far more concerned that my kid would watch The Grinch or something and have their sense of humor completely dumbed down from that and MTV/FOX to the point that they think fart noises are the funniest thing in the world and the only thing you need for intellectual guffaws is crusty sperm on some part of the body in public to put the protagonist in an akward position.

Re:More like "ObviousDad".

[AvitarX]

I know of a few that hve trouble distinguishing reality to a point.

ex 1: wrestling real vs fake. I had arguments into highschool about that one (in fact I be tthe person still thinks it is real)

ex 2: own strength vs professionals. I have an uncle that in a fund raiser paid $20.00 to fight a boxer for a minute (one of the big namesforget who). He said he was getting beet up but thought he was holding his own and very proud. 5 seconds fromt eh end of the time he hears "bite hard" and the next thing he remembers is gainin conciousness. The uy could of KO's in a matter of seconds if he wanted. As a follow up my little brother thinks that his little legue team could field well enough to play agains pros (as long as they had a pitching machine). This was expressed to me in complete sentances.

ex 3: when young and watching Macuyver I thought a lot of stuff that was going on was possible, possibly into my early teens even. That is a clear bluring of the lines of fantasy and reality.

less specifically: younger people do play these games and do get distorted perceptions of reality. There is definatly a bluring between game vs simulation and people do play these games thinking they could easily do such and such.

The problem isn't that people are goingt o play games/watch movies and think it is real, the problem is that people will see the same movie cliche over and over and think it is practical.

I am sure we all know/knew people growing up that watched some movie with a foul mouthed cool protagonist and they thoguht that was cool and appropriate too.

I would like to add that Hot Coffe is fairly innocuous and that they can take my adult oriented TV/movies out of my cold dead fingers (if the FCC takes control of cable and the Shield ends up like NYPD Blue I will become an activist). But I would not watch the Shield with my younger brother (who would probably find it boring) and I wouldn't buy him GTA to play every day after school. He is capable of seeing them both as fantasy, but they can still influence (if your fantasies don't influance your life at all you are probably a sad individual.

I don't think playing a game once would be a problem for anybody, but becomin immersed in a rich alternate reality certainly can (even for adults).

Right. All the parent's fault.

[Wraithfighter]

Look, I agree that the parents need to do a better job of protecting their children from extreme imagery, but, lets face it, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Maybe the game developers can make thier games a little less, oh I don't know, in-your-face about the violence and stuff? I mean, GTA was okay with that, but Manhunt? Manhunt, rockstar? Do we really need a game who's basis is to sneak up behind people and kill them in hideously ghastly ways?

The government could get involved in helping to make sure that the little-uns can't get their hands on Mature rated games, through the classic system of fines.

The stores could get involved, when a 60 year old woman comes in to buy GTA:SA, by asking if its for thier underage kid and asking if they think its really appropriate?

Oh, and the most important culprit: The kids themselves! Are we totally forgetting that the way that a lot of these kids are getting these games is by convincing their parents that "oh, don't worry mommy, GTA really isn't THAT violent a game!"

Show of hands: How many people here have convinced mommy and daddy to pick up an M rated game for them when they were under 17?

*raises hand*

The parents have to do a lot of things. Maybe the other people involved could, *gasp*, make their jobs a bit easier! Some fault does lie with them, but not all of it...

Re:Right. All the parent's fault.

[Tozog]

Game developers should be free to make whatever game they want. Regulating creation of games is stupid and probably unconstitutional.

Re: Manhunt. Yeah, Rockstar needed to make a game who's basis is to sneak up and kill people. People bought it, played, and enjoyed it. It was a game, people had fun.

Fines: sure, fine people for selling video games to people underage for the rating. Just be sure to do the same damn thing with movies, cds, books and magazines. I can't wait to get carded every time I buy a new game.

Stores getting involved. I hate when store employees try to either convince me to buy more stuff or try to convince me to buy different stuff than what I have. If I didn't want the game, I wouldn't have picked it. If it's store policy to question every purchase of an M game, I'll stop doing business there. I'm a perfectly sane adult who can deal with violence and sex in my entertainment. I do not need some do-gooder store clerk try to convince me not to buy a M game or even question my decision about a purchase.

The Kids themselves: WTF would a parent just take their kids words for granted when they say a M rated game is ok for people not over 17? Kids constantly lie to their parents, either bald-face lies, lies of ommission, or exaggerating. Parents have to be skeptics when it comes to the things their kids tell them, its part of being a parent.

I'll raise my hand and say yes, I've convinced my parents to buy what would have been an M game long before I was 17. But you know what? I was mature enough to handle the games and my parents knew it. That's the way the system is supposed to work. Same way the movie ratings work. Parents are supposed to be allowed to bring their child to an R movie if they deem it OK.

People do make it easier, ESRB ratings work just perfectly fine. Otherwise, a quick internet search on a game title to find reviews and screenshots would quickly tell you the content of any game out there.

Please don't try to dumb down gaming and make games 'kid safe' and ruin my entertainment choices. I'm an adult, I can handle it. And quite frankly, the target market of many video games is not children anymore, its adults.

Re:Right. All the parent's fault.

[xero314]

I've never gotten upset at a post before but this time I risk the bad karam because the parent poster is a fucking retard.

It's not the job of the government or any corporation to raise your children. Corporations jobs are to make money, and if people will buy violent sexual games then let them. Kids can't just go into any store and buy an M rated video game, regardless of the fact that a store might be willing to sell it to them. See you miss the point that the child has to get the money for the purchase and be taken to the store, or allowed to go there on there own. The point is, some where in this process there SHOULD be parental involvement. If the goverment has to get involved it should be through Child Protective Services by taking the child away from these unfit parents that facilitate the purchasing of unfit material for thier children. (Then euthanize or at least setilize the parents)

All you idiots that think you can have a child and let it raise it self should fucking be shot by children with guns. Why? Because you are the fucking idiots that allow children to get ahold of firearms. And stop blaming your stupid mistakes in raising children on your parents mistakes. Take some responsibility people.

Re:Right. All the parent's fault.

[ChaosDiscord]

The parents have to do a lot of things. Maybe the other people involved could, *gasp*, make their jobs a bit easier! Some fault does lie with them, but not all of it...

So to make their lives easier, you're suggesting that some products that you have decided are inappropriate (like Manhunt) be removed from shelves, despite the fact that some adults want the game and are mature enough to handle it? To make parent's lives easier you want to increase government meddling in free speech issues? To make parents lives easier, you want the pimple-faced counter monkey at the local game store to act as a nanny for their adult customers?

Yes, parenting is a hard job. You should damn well know that before you try to raise children. Expecting everyone else to change to make your job easier seems awfully selfish. If you can't handle the responsibility do the rest of the world a favor and don't have kids.