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Telcos - How Do Developed Countries Compare?
armondf asks: "I live in South Africa and we are currently laboring under one of the most draconian Telecoms companies in the world (Telkom). Most South African geeks hate this company more than Microsoft. Here, basic ADSL services from our Telecoms provider are charged R270 - R480 - roughly $US40 - $US72 (and that's just for the *line rental*) - that excludes our ISP costs (at least another R200 or $US30) and there is a 3 Gig cap. Our Telecoms provider simply threatens to stop the service if our regulators impose stricter regulations. How do developing countries (like South Africa) become competitive with provision of Internet Services - such as ADSL as compared to Developed countries Telcos? Are there any other developing countries failing to implement affordable broadband solutions to the masses? Did developing countries go through the same teething problems?"
ADSL services from our Telecoms provider are charged R270 - R480 - roughly $US40 - $US72 (and that's just for the *line rental*) - that excludes our ISP costs (at least another R200 or $US30) and there is a 3 Gig cap.
Aside from the 3gig cap, that's not too bad of a deal. With Qwest, you could get something like 256kbps for $30 or so per month. If you want a real ISP with some amount of freedom and no connection resets every couple of hours, it would probably cost you about $70/mo for a 768kbps line from the phone company and maybe $80/mo for the service from an ISP. So about $150/mo for 768kbps DSL.
Or if you went with cable, it would be about $65/mo for 6mbit/768kbps. Of course, you're unlikely to ever get those speeds since al of areas are incredibly saturated. I get about 2mbit if I'm lucky (with Comcast) and it's entirely to do with saturation, because when everyone is gone on particular days, I'm able to almost max out my bandwidth.
Just becuase the US is a "developed nation" doesn't mean our broadband is. In fact, it most certainly is not. There are a LOT of places where you can't get anything but dialup with really dirty lines (probably more people can NOT get broadband than CAN). And since there are usually monopolies in the area, they can charge whatever the hell they feel like. For example, cable has to compete with DSL. cable does not have to compete with other cable providers. And DSL lines are provided by your phone company. Period. So they can charge whatever *they* want for the wire.
Are there any other developing countries failing to implement affordable broadband solutions to the masses? Did developing countries go through the same teething problems?"
Yes! Hell yes. Frankly it sounds exactly like Cable & Wireless, perhaps the most abusive monopoly telco ever. Cable & Wireless is still at it in most of its markets, even today.
The good news is that it all changes quite quickly once there is a competing telco. The bad news is that most of the telcos, like Cable & Wireless, arrange 99 year monopoly agreements with the countries government's. This means that you may have to wait a very long time until a competing telco is allowed to do business in your country.
For a very lucky few Cable & Wireless countries, their governments decided to break the monopoly agreements and allow competitors. This has reduced prices at least in the cellular market where a competitor's infrastructure can be rolled out quickly. DSL markets will take longer due to the infrastructure requirements.
ADSL in Edmonton is $35.00/month (about $24.00/month USD) that's 1.5M down, and 640K up.
Cable is $39.00/month, and it's 5.0M down, 1.5M up (at least mine is.)
There are no hard transfer limits (from any of the companies), but I've heard some people complain that they got letters from their ISPs saying they were using too much (I average 8-10GB/month on my Shaw cable account, and have never heard a thing from them.)
Depending on who you get your service through, support can be either good or bad. In my experience, Interbaun and Shaw have great customer service, while Telus customer service is the worst I've ever encountered.
1.5Mhps 30Gb cap (unenforced) $30ish/month.
--
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15 bucks a month (for the first year) nets you 1.5mbps down and no official bandwidth cap (they say that if you abuse it, though, that they will do something). It tends to be pretty reliable, too, in my area (mid missouri). The rates are supposed to jump after the first year of service, though, but this is the only decent provider in my area (podunk hick town) for high speed access.
"Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
Get some VC funds and start digging. Setup your own lines and provide your own service to everyone. That's how it's done in developed countries.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
Here in Brazil, at least in the state that I live in, the defacto monopolistic telco is actually nice to us ADSL users:
300kbps with 10Gb limit for about R$ 60, US$ 20-ish
600kbps with 15Gb limit for about R$ 100, US$ 30-ish
1Mbps with 20Gb limit for about R$ 170, US$ 60-ish
The service, in my case at least, doesn't suck.
I'm actually happy with the service they offer - ignoring the asshat spammers that scan my firewall every 0.0001 seconds for an open relay, it's not a bad service, IMVHO.
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Plus free of charge blocking of "unsavory sites", its a deal you cant loose on!
...most certainly, still developing, and the local MAN (metropolitan area network) costs 99rmb (~US$12) per month (if you pay for 3 months in advance) for a 10Mbps (10baseT) connection with no caps.
The network is shared and, depending on area, amongst a large number of people and some businesses too, so you typically only get ~3Mbps, unless you pick your time carefully.
Here, for 1.5M/128K, we pay about $13 for the line rental, and about another $10 for the ISP. Not too bad, except that there is NO way to get a faster upload for less than $50/mo. None.
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Here in NZ, I get cable (static ip, no restrictions) 10mbps, 10GB incl (extra is US$10/GB) for US$100 (NZ$150).
:)
You can also get ADSL (dynamic ip), 256Kbps, throttled to 64Kbps after 1GB for US$27 (NZ$40).
There are many, many options in between.
Jason Pollock
Here in Japan, I get ADSL at 12Mbit/s down 1Mbit/s up for Y3000 = US$30 per month with NTT/ODL.
Yahoo! BB gives 40Mbit/s down 1Mbit/s up for about the same price.
In some areas, you can can get 100Mbit/s fibre for about Y5000 = US$50 per month.
My ADSL is reliable, but contended at about 200:1, and I'm NATed.
For what it's worth, I had ADSL installed in my family's home in a fairly rural part of the Pangasinan province of the Philippines, and can report that the ADSL service there is fairly good (if rather slow). We pay 1600 piso (about $30 USD) per month to Digitel for 256 KBytes down and 64 KBytes up, with no cap. However, when considering the price, it's worth bearing in mind that a local school teacher probably less than $100 USD per month! There was an installation fee equal to about one months service. Installation took place 3 days after ordering, and the helpful engineer even installed Windows 98 on the PC. I added a software firewall and antivirus software myself. The service has been pretty reliable for the past few months we've had it - more reliable in fact than the local electricity which suffers brownouts on a daily basis. Brief disconnects do occur from time to time, but the modem reconnects automatically after a few minutes. Digitel have been very helpful - for one month our PC was out of order, and they have not charged us for that month since we never connected! In the same way that cellphone service here is cheap and efficient due to the competition between SMART and GLOBE, I think the competition between PLDT and Digitel has helped keep landline and DSL services reasonable. Note that I'd strongly advise against using Dial-up internet access here from a Windows machine - previously we had problems with trojan diallers which appear to be targetted at the Philippines and ran up a bill of around 10,000 piso ($200 USD) calling a premium number in the Solomon Islands. Unfortunately, Digitel were less helpful here and we had to pay for these calls. For many people here, that would be several months salary.
[warning: bad sarcasm ahead]
Welcome to Australia. Firstly, do you live in an area where the local telco exchange has third party DSLAMs installed? If so, forget whats mentioned below. You can get up to 24mbit ADSL2 you lucky barstard.
You don't? We'll, your're like me. Welcome to telco monopoly by default. Whats a Baby Bell? Sorry, Baby Bell everywhere in the country only means one word: "Toolstra". Pity, we're stuck with only up to 1.5mbit ADSL.
(I'm on 512/128k ADSL with 15gb cap for $50 which ain't too bad, but where my ISP has installed their own DSLAMs people are getting up to 24mbits for the same price).
Cable? Whats that? Unlike our friends in America the whole country isn't cabled in DOCSIS lovin'. It took a while for the Pay TV battlers to figure out their shit didn't sell (and still doesn't), rolling two networks in the one street is stupid and the local city councils don't like them. Lucky? $70 for 10mbit/128k with 12gb. Less lucky because the only cable provider is a certain evil telco whos initals are N.C? ADSL pricing and speeds for you!
Live in outer suburbs? On a farm? On pair gain? Sorry, ISDN is for you. Want something faster? Geostationary orbit sattelites provide you with unencrypted data transmission for crappy prices. Just move somewhere else dammit.
Want access on to go? GPRS? $50AUD p/m on top of voice plan for 500mb. Don't want to pay $50? Sorry, anywhere from 0.11-2.2c/KB for j00.
Lousy Telstra. Want to roll your own network in regional Australia? sorry, thats a monopoly too. My ISP had to use microwave.
Well, here in Sweden I pay $52/month for 24Mbit Dload/1Mbit Upload, no transfer limit and a stable service. Pretty nice I think.
As always...s px
http://www.telepriskollen.se/Internet/Topplista.a
1 SEK = $0.13 or 0.11
ADSL monthly subscription fees from the biggest telco in the Netherlands (KPN), no hard caps ("Fair Use Policy"):
800/256: 21,95 Euro
1600/512: 29,95 Euro
3200/768: 49,95 Euro
8000/1024 74.95 Euro
You do need to lease a landline (minimum around 10 E per month). Usually they throw in some promotion discounts (1st month free, free WIFI modem/router, etc.). Two or three years back it was much more expensive, probably twice or thrice the price, but competition has unleashed a pricewar of some sorts.
In Morocco, there is still a monopoly on the ADSL broadband supply, that makes the prices to be relatively high for a country like morocco,so we pay for 256K, 30 dollars for the Line and the ISP, there is only 100 000 ADSL subscribers,the telecom regulation authority said that there is a potential of 500 000 in the next years. Recently there is a licence which was attributed to a second telecom provider that planes to provide low cost broadband with wimax, by establishing a nation wide wireless network combined with optical fibre. There are also two 3GPP licenses that will be attributed at the end of year, so i guess that is a reason more to make broadband prices to drop. I really don't know what is best suitable for a low cost broadband in developing countries Wimax or 3GPP or classis technologies?
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If you live in Australia, the terrorists have won.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Looking down the list, it seems like we all have about the same choices for roughly the same prices no matter where we live.
To put it crudely, you get to choose who fucks you in the ass with a bowling pin (telco, cable, satellite). The choice lies in who uses a lubricant that you like the smell of (free install, package deals, free router etc). Meanwhile the regulators, local councils, and other government types are there with thier pliers clamped firmly on your genitals. Ultimately you are getting laid (faster than dialup) but you really aren't having as much fun as you had hoped.
I pay USD$49.95 per month to Sonic.net (http://sonic.net/ for 6.0mb/s down, 608kbp/s up. No cap, no limitations.
I'm in California though, I think this is probably one of the cheapest places to get 6.0mb down DSL for only $49.95 a month.
You can get 1.5mb down, 384k up for $14.95 a month from SBC Yahoo, but you have shitty service and PPPoE instead of straight Ethernet.
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
The regulator ruled a few years ago that BT had to open up the local loop to third party telcos, but we're only starting to get widespread takeup of this. As far as I can see, most of the action is in London.
We also have cable TV telcos like Telewest and NTL; I'm not an expert on their pricing (I've never bothered looking into it, since my home isn't cabled, despite being in the inner city and in a street in which all the ordinary houses have spurs) but I think prices start from about £15 per month including a voice line, a basic cable package and broadband (2Mbps/256kbps, I think).
Our Telecoms provider simply threatens to stop the service if our regulators impose stricter regulations.
Well duh! If you beat your dog don't be surprised if he growls at you.
You've got what is known as a "monopoly". The solution is simple. Take away their monopoly. With very few exceptions, monopolies are caused by government grants of monopoly. Stop subsidizing the monopoly, remove legal barriers to competition, stop favoring large corporations over small independents via the tax code and corporate privileges, etc. Problem solved.
Of course, there is no guarantee that you'll get your every want and desire. But it sounds like your not getting that anyway from your government. Utopia is not an option so stop looking for perfect solutions and start looking for less imperfect ones.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Those prices do not seem that far off.
Call me old fashion, but I've been polluted into thinking anything under a few hundred a month, that is greater than 1.5Meg is a deal.
I pay $800.00/month for bonded ADSL (two six meg pipes combined) for a 12 Mbps connection with about 2 Mbps upstream.
A buddy of mine lives in australia, he's getting something like 768/256 for about $80 USD/month.
Here in Sri Lanka ADSL feels much slower than in the UK (I think because of the lack of upstream bandwidth). It is also not terribly reliable and there have been a number of interruptions to service over the last few months (for about an hour this morning, although most have been briefer than that). Service is also restricted to a few areas: Colombo (the capital) and some surrounding areas, and even in these areas there is a waiting list thanks to lack of capacity.
Connection speeds are also slow with the two options being 512kbps/128kbps (sold as a home user service) and 2mbps/512kbps sold as a business service.
Prices are not too bad: Rs 2,000 one off connection fee (Rs 100 approx = 1 USD) and monthly payments of Rs 2,250 and Rs 6,750 monthly, uncapped.
Are there any other developing countries failing to implement affordable broadband solutions to the masses?
There is no chance of broadband for the masses in developing countries for a long time. It is only recently that telephones became affordable to the masses (and not in the poorest countries yet), PCs still are definitely not affordable.
That should, of course read: Developing country telecos may not be as reliable
Bulldog recently billed me two hundred pounds for three months service (which should only be about a hundred quid). In the last fortnight I have sent more emails than I can remember and phoned their finance department over a hundred times. To date I've yet to received a response to my emails (aside from the automatic "Your mail is important to us" response) or get through to a member of their finance staff.
Bulldog were great when I started to use them a couple of years ago. But since they were bought out by Cable & Wireless they've been absolutely awful. Even if you have to pay a little (or a lot) more you should use another ISP as Bulldog are the fucking pits.
The experience with Time-Warner is consistently good from my personal experience and those I have heard from others.
No port restrictions. They do get a tad uppity if they find you have port 25 open, but that's about it. For $45/mo, I get 3Mb down/384kb up, for $90/mo, I could up that to 6Mb/768kb. Transfer speeds seem to be very consistent, despite being shared bandwidth, leading me to believe that they are not overselling their network. Customer service is also very good.
A friend who has Verizon DSL tells me that his bandwidth is heavily variable depending on weather. Sometimes it zips along, sometimes, he says, dialup would be faster. Most of the time, it is somewhere in between. None of the time is it as fast as TW Cable.
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