Slashdot Mirror
Siberian Permafrost Melting
TeknoHog writes "New
Scientist Reports on a remarkable runaway process of global warming
that has been going on in Siberia for the past few years. 'Western Siberia has warmed faster than almost anywhere else on the planet, with an increase in average temperatures of some 3C in the last 40 years.' As a result, a million
square kilometers (the area of France and Germany) of frozen peat bog have
been found to be melting, according to Russian and international
scientists. This releases methane, a potent greenhouse gas, which
contributes to further global warming."
Cue neo-con denial in 3... 2... 1...
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for that backwards, warmongering son of a bitch. :-(
There is not a *single* scientific report that can prove Global Warming, even as a theory. It's only the nut-job-leftists that tout their unprovable theories as fact.
Come back to me in 1000 years when they've been able to tell the differente between Human intervention and the natural cycles of the planet and then we'll talk.
"The sky is falling! It's all our fault!"
The climate on planet Earth has gotten less than a degree warmer in the last 150 years.
http://www.ecobridge.org/content/g_evd.htm#graph
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
I've heard that one of the reasons that the Russians didn't sign the Kyoto Agreement was because they are tired of the cold and *want* a warmer country.
Global warming may be good for *some* countries.
Table-ized A.I.
And how is this just Bush's fault?
Dude, this is Slashdot. Everything, and I mean everything, from global warming all the way down to the latest fedora core zgrep gzip vulnerability is Bush's fault.
GOOFUS has never stepped foot outside his ivory tower, and has never had a conservative colleague in fifteen years, though he did have a conservative student two years ago (which he flunked). The last non-academic job he ever held was selling candy for high school band, but it was is mom who actually sold the candy. He's never taken one class in economics, but that doesn't stop him from proposing extreme radical economic policies.
GALLANT doesn't get invited to parties where they serve brie and gamay noir.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Don't worry, if we keep going the way we're going, we'll all be living in a cave soon enough. That's only if some crazed madman doesn't take advantage of the economic crisis that follows and blows us all to smithereens.
Oh, wait, that's when Jesus comes down and saves us, right?
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Yeah, and I guess Martin Luter King decided it was man's lot to be racist assholes and decided to walk away from it all?
Sorry, dude, you can't shrug your shoulders. That's fatalistic. Fatalists never get a fucking thing done.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
So your position is to continue to rape the planet, full speed ahead? Sounds sensible. Let's do it.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Since it's going to screw up your golden age regardless of what's causing it, why aren't you interested in doing whatever is possible to reverse it?
If you don't mind, I'll take a run at this one, speaking only for myself, of course.
As a child of the 60's and 70's (I got to see the moon shots on live TV! Woo0t!1!) I remember a long, long parade of weepeers, whiners, moaners, groaners, tooth-gnashers, hand-wringers and other assorted chicken-little types. The ones that said we'd run out of food. We'd have to stand up because of the population explosion. We'd have to wear gas masks when we went outside, because of air pollution. The seas would be covered with oil. We'd be out of oil (evidently it was all floating in the ocean). The sonic boom would stop the chickens laying. DDT was the scourge of the world. Alligators dangled on the thread of extinction. And, yes, the Coming Ice Age would freeze us all. And our Pet Rocks would join forces with the Mood rings to enslave all of humanity! (OK, I made that last one up)
And given that track record I cast a rather jaundiced eye on the Doom Scenario De Jour and go "Meh". Particularly since the scientists of my youth managed to get from Kitty Hawk to Luna, and the current crop have been jerking off in low-earth orbit for the past few decades. Excuse my lack of gee-whizicles, but impressed I ain't.
Reality check: How often does the average member of the Slashdot community trot out the ancient and well-worn "640k is enough for anybody" canard while conveniently ignoring all the other "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE REAL SOON!!!!1!" failed predictions?
I say again: Global Warning? Meh. Take a number, you'll find the dispenser next to the Y2k countdown calendar.
Now if you'll pardon me I have to chase those kids off my lawn...
Excuse me, are you a climatologist? Or are you just an armchair scientist?
All I'm saying is that mankind is raping the fuck out of the earth. That's pretty clear. Coral reefs are dying, there's massive deforstation, massive extinctions, and many, many climatologists clearly believe that mankind is certainly influencing our temperature in a negative way. The only question is basically by how much.
We can't continue to just believe in some fanciful free market consumerist that will magically make our problems vanish. There's absolutely no basis for believing that's a solution, except if you are heavy into the Bible and believe mankind is ordained by God to rule the world.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
China refuses to help?
No reason for the U.S. to ratify it then if China is not going to help.
I bet you'll get a lot of people to jump up and down about how crazy that is.
The only freedoms socialists favor are those they personally approve of...usually those that they themselves benefit from. For everyone else there's the Reeducation Camp!
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Anyone who capitalizes "Global Warming" isn't exactly going to be a font of scientific dispassion and empiricism.
Nobody possessed of a modicum of reason disputes that the globe seems to be heating up, at least a bit. A great many people dispute the cause, the projected trends (which vary wildly, depending on the agenda of the people involved), and what, if anything, can be done about it. Only the loony extremists on either end of the political spectrum are absolutely certain they possess The Truth(TM).
If we act now to drastically reduce our fossil fuel emissions and other man-made greenhouse gasses, we're still mostly fucked.
You don't know that, either way. You have zip in empirical evidence to indicate that "we're fucked", however you define it.
We can't help pristine environments like the Siberian taiga
But if things continue we might be able to sell summer condos there. Me, I think that's a good thing. Siberia is a frozen shithole of little value to anyone other than a few thousand reindeer farmers; any change is bound to be a good one, at least for human beings.
prevent most of Florida from going under-water
That would certainly solve the Social Security problem.
We should probably take drastic action now anyway
Drastic action. Not a single person on Earth - you included - can say with any certainty if ANY action will have an effect, yet you're more than willing to bet the future of everyone on the planet (and a good deal of our present, as well) just to make you feel like 'something's being done'. No thanks, chicken little.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
But anyone who thinks we can just continue to rape the globe forever
Perhaps you haven't figured this out yet, but the whole Gaia-as-goddess thing is a load of horseshit. The globe can't be "raped".
are we going to be stupid enough to continue down this wreckless path?
You mean of technological progress and a better standard of living, at least for some of the race? Sure, sounds good to me.
Does humanity secretly have an unfulfilled death wish?
Only if you define "death wish" as "wanting to live a better life".
Listen I'm willing to admit I'm part of the problem.
You sure as hell are. Have you thought about toning down the drama queen act?
I recognize things have to change.
Starting with the fact that we need to rely on science and empiricism, and not extremist loons chanting slogans or spouting party lines about the man-made doom-of-the-week.
find a way to snap out of these unsustainable lifestyles
So far the lifestyle *has* been sustainable. You're predicting unsustainability on the premise that technology will never progress beyond what we have today - like all alarmists. As if the status quo this moment is all we're ever going to achieve, despite the fact that the entirety of human history contradicts this notion.
avoid the terrible consequences that surely await us if we don't.
Why don't you just pick up a piece of cardboard, write "The End Times Approach!" on it in black magic marker, and start marching back and forth along a busy street someplace? You'll be following in the footsteps of many other folks just like you.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
All I'm saying is that mankind is raping the fuck out of the earth.
You certainly do have a fascination with rape. Counseling might be able to help with that.
Coral reefs are dying
Corals have gone extinct at least three times in the past. They keep re-evolving. What any of this has to do with this 'rape' you keep talking about is unclear.
there's massive deforstation
And this time it's due to human activity, but "massive deforestation" isn't anything new to the planet, either. And while it's locally bad for human populations, there's no evidence to indicate that it's globally bad.
massive extinctions
Nobody has any idea just how many species have gone extinct, nor how many of those extinctions are due to human activity. Any claim to the contrary is unsupported hysteria.
and many, many climatologists clearly believe that mankind is certainly influencing our temperature in a negative way.
Many, many climatologists are convinced that the Earth is in a warming trend, and has been for several thousand years. How much humans are contributing, and whether this is a bad, is still up for debate - at least among scientists.
We can't continue to just believe in some fanciful free market consumerist that will magically make our problems vanish.
So you would rather have what? A world-wide socialist dictatorship bringing your particular views of how things should be to the masses, by force? Get real.
There's absolutely no basis for believing that's a solution
A solution to what? Your obvious angst over the fact that a lot of people just don't agree with you?
except if you are heavy into the Bible and believe mankind is ordained by God to rule the world.
I'm an atheist, but it's a fact that humankind rules the world. And so far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. Much better than if, say, tigers ruled the world - because then I'd be lunch.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Don't you get it?
Apparently you don't. You're a fanatic on a crusade; and like any fanatic you're convinced that you're right, and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.
In case you haven't managed to grab a clue, that makes you somewhat less than credible.
The only bullshit is coming from the neoliberal, right-wing think tanks who the free market is the lord and savior of the mankind.
Riiiight. The free market is the source of all environmental evil. Silly me - I guess I should be working to bring socialism to the unwashed masses!
They are in the business of manufacturing doubt
And you're in the business of manufacturing hysteria.
they don't have to worry about pesky governments
Those "pesky governments" are far more likely to pass pro-business than anti-business legislation. How you've come to the conclusion that government will save us is beyond me. It's also fucking ridiculous, if history is any judge.
These guys are ideologues, not climatologists.
You've just described yourself in a nutshell.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
I'd take the time to debate you but unfortunately you spent so much energy thinking up clever responses that you didn't leave anything of substance.
That's because you never said anything of substance. You're too busy ranting about "raping the globe" to actual put forth anything so crass as FACTS.
And you are predicting that technology is our savior?
It's a sure bet that if we need to be saved, we DON'T have any other tools in our arsenal. Unless you believe in a god, which I don't.
On what empirical evidence do you base this conclusion on?
Perhaps all of human history, from the discovery of fire right up to the flight of Discovery last week. Not a single sane person on the planet can say that we'd be better off without technology.
Is there some paralell universe you've been fortunate to study?
Apparently "parallel universe" to you is what's called "history" to the rest of us.
Give technology to the wrong individuals and society, and you've got yourself a recipe for disaster.
I see. And it's intellectual elites like yourself who get to decide which of the proles get what sort of technology, I'd guess. As in, you're one of the 'right' individuals and those who agree with you are the 'wrong' sort.
I thank the (fictional) gods that you're just an ordinary Joe, with no power in the real world. The society you'd create would make Orwell look like a stand-up comedian.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
GOOFUS spends his time demonstrating his deep-rooted paranoia by posting epic-lengthy cynical comments on some website.
GALLANT gets out and enjoys life -- at least once in a while.
(I served in gulf war 1 ... but not to quibble)
...
You're correct - the term "communist agitprop" should be replaced with "enviromentalist agitprop bullshit" - sorry
How did you know I had an SUV? God you're clever! Its a big one too - a real pig - it flattens small pussy cars without me even noticing it. You probably have a small pussy car right?
Anyway - get back to me when you figured that replace oil with something magical problem
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
Hahahaha. That was the stupidest analogy yet!
Why don't you go back to your unicorns and candles.
Mmmm'k, you little queerbait?
*sob* *sob*
Please don't scare me mister scary NYC man - Us Chicago boys don't know how do deal with scary envrionmentalists like you! Please don't hurt me!
*yawn*
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano