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Creating a Clever Home?

eKto1 asks: "We've recently purchased an older, dated home which we are in the process of gutting and restructuring. While there are no walls, we are obviously running the standard Cat5, and speaker cable to each and every room, however we would also like to modernize the house even more by making it intelligent, as in 'Smart'. I'd like to install touch screens in the majority of the rooms, to control things such as media (separate audio and video to each wall unit), lighting, temperature, etc. For those of you on Slashdot who have done this, what has your experience been? Are there guides for doing this easily and effectively, without having to sell the farm? Is there a way to allow distributed content to head units while keeping servers down to one or 2 units?"

40 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Conduit by andreMA · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A vertical run of conduit (hopefully through closets) from basement to attic will likely save you headaches later.

    1. Re:Conduit by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And put strings in the conduit. When you want to install new wire, just tie the string to the wire, and use the strong to pull the wire through the conduit. I've known people to lay multiple strings in the conduit, so you can pull new wires in, old wires out, etc.

      Shoving wire through a conduit will drive you crazy.

      I usually use a file to smooth out any jagged metal on the ends of any freshly-cut pipes. If you don't do that, the wire may get damaged as you pull/push the wire through the pipe.

      Some baby powder can help make the wires slide easier.

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    2. Re:Conduit by wowbagger · · Score: 3, Informative

      You forgot to tie another string onto the first, so that when you are done, you have both the new cable, and a string in the conduit.

      ALWAYS pull a second string.

    3. Re:Conduit by austad · · Score: 4, Informative

      Note that this is illegal according to most building codes in the US. This is because it can allow a fire to spread through the home faster either because of increased oxygen supply or because it offers a pathway for hot gases to travel to other portions of the house.

      I looked into doing this, and the building inspector said no way in hell would he approve it.

      --
      Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
    4. Re:Conduit by nytes · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've never heard of using baby powder to make wires slide easier.

      When I used to work for my dad (an electrical contractor) we used to keep a chunk of parafin (wax) in the truck for pulling wire.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    5. Re:Conduit by BiAthlon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's kind of funny. In Chicago (which has one of the most strict electric and fire codes) you are REQUIRED to run all wires in conduit.

      Maybe they need to fire your building inspector.

    6. Re:Conduit by grimarr · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's hard to understand. Conduit between walls,
      especially through fire walls, is common, almost universal. Even if you wanted to use a big 4 inch conduit, and only have a couple Cat 5s in it, it should be OK. The important thing is to seal it, to prevent the flow of flame/smoke/hot air through the tube. My inspector recommended packing it tightly with fiberglass insulation (after the wires were pulled), but putty and other things work, too. Fiberglass is easy to remove and replace, handly when you're adding wires later.

  2. Be CAREFUL! by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 2, Funny


    Before embarking on your project, I would highly recommend you watch this compelling and informative docudrama.

    Forewarned is forearmed, after all...

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  3. +5, Informative. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "For those of you on Slashdot who have done this, what has your experience been? "

    Good

    "Are there guides for doing this easily and effectively, without having to sell the farm?"

    Yes.

    "Is there a way to allow distributed content to head units while keeping servers down to one or 2 units?"

    Yes

  4. Why? by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're going to end up with a "buggy" house that is unsellable.

    Do you really want to be dependent on a server for your thermostats & lights to work properly? Or have to rip out and replace video gear every few years when your OS or applications change?

    So you'll shell out thousands on computer & X10 equipment, then when you decide to move, you're left losing gobs of cash unless you find some dork who wants to take on a house full of aging computer & control equipment.

    I won't even get into having a TV in every room.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    1. Re:Why? by JabberWokky · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Higher end houses (when you exceed a million dollars) already have all this equipment, and it is quite reliable. X10 is the dirt cheap knockoff end of the home automation market. The good stuff is very fault tolerant, ages well and is quite expensive. Rich people like their toys and don't tolerate things that don't work.

      Depending on how he's planning on doing it, it will be very stable and reliable. (But given the way he's worded things, I don't think he's planning on doing it with experts).

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    2. Re:Why? by ReverendLoki · · Score: 3, Funny
      (But given the way he's worded things, I don't think he's planning on doing it with experts).

      That's ok. Since he's a Slashdot user, he's already an expert. At least, that's what I gather by the posts here, where everyone seems to be an expert on every possible subject... Why, I can feel my level of expertise increasing right now, just by making snide remarks!

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    3. Re:Why? by JabberWokky · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Heh. You'd be surprised. Check out science.slashdot.org, and the level leaps up -- at least for the stories that *don't* get posted to the home page. In fact, if a story does not get posted to the home page, it's very likely people in the discussion are actual experts.

      I do note that most topics on Ask Slashdot (anything you'd either hire an expensive expert for, or can only be figured out by doing serious book reading research) get useless replies. Also anything with competition - if you say "What's a good way to do foo with Perl?", you'll get 50 answers on how to do it with PHP, 170 with Ruby, 7 in emacs, and 1 in either Intercal or Ada. And zero useful answers.

      Incidently, if you actually want to use Ask Slashdot as a resource, there is a way: bookmark the discussion, wait a week or two, and then go back through it looking for links or references. A few people have likely posted a link or three to really nicely complete sites or cited a (gasp!) book that is nice. Watch for names to pick out too; you can find actual experts on the subject that people mention in their post.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  5. worry about energy costs first by bluGill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe you already are, but just in case (and for those who are considering this): consider energy costs first.

    Smart homes seems like a neat idea, but what is the gain over just putting a stereo in each room, and a wi-fi receiver for those rooms where you really want mp3s? (As long as you need to remove the inside walls anyway you may as well run CAT-5, but for most people wi-fi works well)

    Spend your budget first on low-E windows, and good insulation. Then put in a good heating/cooling system (preferably a ground source heat pump).

    Saving energy will make the world a better place, and in the long run is good for your wallet. Your 'smart home' is not very smart if it wastes energy, and at best won't make the world a better place.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea. I'm just urging you to take care of the important parts first, then the toys. I also encourage you to think about the toys. If you don't have a radio of some sort in your current bathroom, why put one in.

    1. Re:worry about energy costs first by jesup · · Score: 2, Informative

      As stated in comments to other replies to this message, ground source heat pumps work fine even into the far north. Even air-source heat pumps (with appropriate auxilliaries) are efficient into the northern tier of states. And natural gas is no longer cheap.

      Geothermal cost comparisons: http://tristate.apogee.net/geo/minneap.asp
      (NOTE: those are based on 6/ kWh; 60/ ccf gas; $1.00/gal oil). In most places, it's 8-10 cents/kWh, well over $1/ccf, and $1/gal oil? Ha! Try $2-2.50 at least. Even at the prices they list, in MN (not exactly a warm place), air-source is on a par with oil and better than propane, though behind natural gas. Ground-source beats them all be a significant margin; if you update the figures for current fuel/electric prices, even air-source heatpumps probably beat natural gas, and ground source beats oil by a 2x factor (circa $1000-1500/year), and beats natural gas probably by at least $500-800, maybe more.

      A good energy costs calculator (for relative costs):
      http://www.hearth.com/articles/47_0_1_0_M7.html. Note: for heat pumps, use electric and put in an efficiency value of around 250. That will be a pessimistic guess for year-round efficiency unless you live very far north; year-round average is probably more like 275, perhaps 300 in middle to southern states. Ground-source heatpumps - use a value of 350 to 400. And don't forget to update the local costs of different fuels and efficiencies for furnaces!

  6. don't use Microsoft Windows. But use Doors. by Knights+who+say+'INT · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1. Re:don't use Microsoft Windows. But use Doors. by MindStalker · · Score: 3, Informative

      HAHA, that video was funny. Only in Japan I guess. I would never imagine creating a marketing video when my product half works. Watch it, many of the slits don't go far enough, and it seems like once they do move, they won't go farther if nessesary to accomidate. As well the sensors should have a wider range, as the tops of peoples heads didn't always trigger the sensor for the slit that you would bump your head into if you actually used it. Cool, but this thing would quickly get destroyed in real usage. I guess in Japan people are willing to work around technology like that and duck.

  7. only worry about infrastructure now by bmwm3nut · · Score: 3, Informative

    this is a project that should be done it at least two steps. the only thing you really want to worry about now is getting the wires into the walls. so plan on things like (as you say) cat-5 (i suggest cat-6 incase gigabit become affordable in the future), speaker wire, and don't forget enough electrical sockets. i honestly don't think it's too much to ask for one electrical socket on each stud. make sure they're on different circuit breakers, and if possible maybe set up some of them to be uninterruptable. my ideal wall would have a socket on each stud. 2 out of every three would be regular sockets - but on different circuits, and 1 out of three would be on an uninterruptable circuit that's managed elsewhere in the house. you could even look into the new standard 12VDC power that's starting to be popular for some lightning. it wouldnt hurt to put a line of 12VDC in the wall too.

    once you have all the wires in the wall, then you can worry about hardware. the nice thing is that you don't need to worry about it now. you can just put in a cheap thermostat now and later when you say, "hey, i'd like to control the thermostat with my webserver" you can then put in a new thermostat and you'll already have the wires in the wall and you can set up the webserver to control the thermostat. likewise with anything else, you can add touch screens later. the benefit to going with normal stuff now and upgrading later is that it forces you to think modularly. if you put in touch screens now and set everything up with those screens, you'll probably be mad next year when newer less buggy hardware is out there and it's impossible for you to upgrade. if you think modularly, then you can upgrade the hardware however you want.

    the same goes for your server room. don't worry now about how many servers it's going to take to run your house. just make sure you have a room wired properly that you can put servers in. then when you start putting more services online and you need more computing power, it'll be easy to upgrade as necessary. for example after you get bored having the lights and heat controlled by the computers, you can later upgrade and write your own security system that monitors the windows and doors at night. if some one breaks in, it'll wake you up, auto dial 911, automatically unlock the gun cabinet and give you a lighted path from your bed to the gun cabinet (or at least that's my dream for my comptuer controlled house).

    1. Re:only worry about infrastructure now by BoomerSooner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you kidding me? 1 socket on each stud? Do you realize studs are 18" apart which in a 10x10 room means you have around 26 plugs? WTF would someone need that for? Not to mention copper is f'ing expensive. Go to lowes or home depot and look at how much copper wiring costs.

      BTW I build homes for a living.

    2. Re:only worry about infrastructure now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      26 plugs is just about right for a kid's bedroom if your kid is as geeky as most parents on slashdot become.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:only worry about infrastructure now by Neil+Blender · · Score: 2, Informative

      how are three circuit per room more dangerous than one?

      Aside from kitchens and dining rooms, you might have two in a room at most but they would be grouped and the second circuit would only be there because it is dedicated for a known purpose. Also, that circuit would most likely feed those specific outlets only and not any in other rooms. By dangerous, I meant having your recepticles round-robined on three different circuits so that three outlets within 36 inches of each other are going to be on three different breakers. Besides all that, what are you going to be doing in a room that requires 60 amps all at once?

      Also, any room which is technically considered a bedroom (regardless of what you are using it for) will require three 20 amp AFCI breakers which aren't cheap. On top of that, your plan would probably require three or four sub-panels because of how many breakers you want to install. Plus, you'd probably have to upgrade your service to 320 or 400 amps.

    4. Re:only worry about infrastructure now by gregmac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      here's what i can remember having plugged in in my living room: tv, vcr, dvd player, sterio, subwoofer, 2 lamps, 3 laptops, 1 hub, 1 vga -> ntsc converter, 2 cell phone chargers. that's 14 plugs that i can remember right now.

      So lets say your tv, vcr, dvd player, stereo, sub, hub, vga converter, a laptop and a cell phone charger all together on a tv stand of some sort, while the rest of the stuff is around the rest of the room. That means you take up 5 sockets (2 plugs each), which is 80" of wall. Instead of having them plugged into a decent sized power bar and all contained behind the tv, you have them all string out across the wall.

      We won't get into how you have no surge protection close to the device, either.

      --
      Speak before you think
    5. Re:only worry about infrastructure now by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 2, Informative

      new standard 12VDC power that's starting to be popular for some lightning

      Um... even a 12W fixture chews a solid 1A... multiply this by 20 fixtures (not unthinkable to get a decent amount of light in a few rooms) and you have a nice solid 20A...

      Now add on the heat losses from the current (in the wire, alone). We can assume about 1/2 Ohm resistance in the wire if it's a long run back to a central transformer... I won't even get into the losses in the transformer (which only runs at ~85% efficiency).

      P = 20^2 * 1/2 = 200W of copper losses for 240W of light...

      You should see the reason why mains power is distributed and generally used at high voltages...

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    6. Re:only worry about infrastructure now by ibbey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Gotta say I agree with the others on this... A socket every 16" is ridiculous. Think about it-- you're right that I have more devices then outlets in my office, but most of the devices are concentrated in two locations-- my desk & entertainment center. Why would I want to drag cords all over the room when a carefully placed power strip does the job even better (and adds surge suppression to boot)?

      But where you are correct is that you do want more outlets then are usually provided. My dream room would have one outlet every 64 inches in most walls and one every 48 inches in areas where I expect to need more. Normally, no wall should have fewer then two outlets. Cat 5 (or 6) & cable should be available in opposite corners of each room where it makes sense.

      And here's one that I haven't seen anyone else mention... At least one power outlet in each closet in the house. You may consider adding cat5 in the closet of your office as well. Handy for servers, but make sure it's well ventilated.

  8. CAT6e by Omega1045 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Someone if going to tell you to go wireless, someone is going to say fiber. With more and more WEPs going up in my neighborhood, I am having problems with my setup now and really wish I had wall jacks everywhere. And fiber is just overkill, but this is Slashdot and someone will mention it.

    I say make sure to run CAT6e, which will nicely handle Gigabit over Copper. You may want to stream some sort of HD video or other high bandwidth signal in the future over the network, so go with a cabling that will work. I would also run at least two RJ45 ports into each room, more in the large rooms. Don't worry about phone lines, you can always wire up from the patch panel a traditional line into one of your feeds, and RJ11 (phone) plugs into RJ45.

    Power! People overlook this. Make sure to put in enough outlets. I don't even know how many extension cords and power strips I am running now. I wish my house had twice as many outlets, and it was built in 1999!

    --

    Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

    1. Re:CAT6e by renehollan · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The general rule is to run 2xCAT5e (or Cat6) and 2xRG6/U coax (quad shielded) to every "drop" and home run back to a distribution panel. Each drop is terminated in a modular Leviton (or similar) wall plate module. You put a "drop" wherever you might want telephone, data, or TV. One can even get "Speedwrap" cable that combines the aforementioned cables (with and without 2xfiber as well) -- it adds a bit to the cost over individual cables but is easier and neater to pull.

      The reasoning is as follows:

      One Cat5e is for telephone (some PBXs do require all four pairs, though this is getting rarer). You don't need Cat5e for phone, but it's pennies over Cat3.

      One Cat5e is for 100 Mb/s ethernet. 'nuff said.

      One RG6/U is for RF (cable, local modulated channels, satellite, etc) to TVs.

      The other RG6/U cable is for a "back feed" from a local video source modulated on some TV channel that is not in use -- at the headend you can combine them with the incomming cable/satellite feed, and broadcast through the house.

      Anyway, that's the "recommendation". There are a few areas where it falls short, and a few other problem with it:

      1. Satellite feeds can require two coax cables to each drop (so, forget about the "backfeed"), if you have a multi-satellite dish: if you have a dual satellite tuner, and want to tune different polarizations on the same satellite, or different satellites, you need two cables (at least for DirecTV). Dish Network "stacks" the horizontal and vertical polarizations on one cable, but you still need two cables if you want to watch programs on two different satellites (or watch one and record the other). So, say goodbuy to your video backfeed unless you run extra coax.

      If you want to combine an OTA signal from a TV antenna (including OTA HD), you can diplex it onto and off of one of the satellite feeds, though a separate cable is better. It is generally a bad idea to try to duplex a cable feed with an internal satellite distribution network. So, add another RG6/u cable. That adds two extra coax cables (and quad-shielded ones are thick and somewhat inflexible), to each drop where you might have serious video equipment, i.e. anywhere you have a TV or computer that processes video, or video recording gear intended to archive programs. This will probably be the media/family room, computer room, and perhaps master bedroom. For good measure, you might want to add a second (or even third) such drop in such rooms, if you decide to move the furniture around. To racap: that's one Cat5e for telephone (your satellite and cable box or TiVo might need it), one Cat5e for data network (everything needs a data network port sooner or later), two coax for satellite, one for a backfeed, one for cable TV, and you can diplex the OTA signal on one of the satellite cables if you use both the backfeed and the cable feed.

      Other locations where there might be a TV (kitchen, bedrooms) can probably get by without the extra two coax cables.

      Next, consider the location of wired telephones. You want at least some wired telephones, that use a landline, at least one on each floor, that you can dial real 911 from. You probably want these locations at opposite ends of the room where the TV drops are, if any. Even if you go wireless for phones, you will probably want data network drops on the opposite end of the room to plug in your laptop, etc. Run 2xCat5e for phone and data.

      "But why not wireless phone and/or data or MythTV over the LAN (or wireless), or VoIP over the LAN (or wireless), etc. and avoid all that cable?" I hear you cry.

      Three reasons.

      1. Security.

      2. Bandwidth.

      3. Expense.

      You may have wireless phone (and VoIP, and data), to be sure, but keep it in the DMZ on your network. You definately want some real hardwired landline phones for emergencies. Wireless bandwidth is never going to be as good as what you can get on a wired network, and wired networks are easier to segment

      --
      You could've hired me.
  9. Be very, very careful by Fished · · Score: 2, Informative
    We were doing much the same thing until we discovered that our infant child had high blood lead levels. I had always thought that the issue was kids eating paint chips--well, that's bad, but what's worse is kids (and adults) breathing the dust kicked up by renovations in homes with lead paint. It is very difficult to avoid kicking up dust from plaster walls and paint, so you need to make sure that you are taking steps to protect yourself and your children! I mean it! This is double-plus-un-good.

    The older the home, the more dangerous it may be, as paint manufacturers steadily cut the lead content of their paints from the turn of the century on. Don't guess, get it checked. And, if you have children, walk away and bleed money if you have to rather than expose them to lead.

    That's what we did, and I now own a home built in 2003, and am very grateful that I don't need to worry about my kids' being poisoned by it.

    --
    "He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
  10. Remember, whatever you do will be obsolete quickly by Ken+Hall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've been into this for close to 30 years now. I've been in my current house for 17 years, and I've rewired FOUR TIMES as the technology has changed.

    I can absolutely tell you that the most important thing you can provide is ACCESS. Several others have mentioned conduits and wiring channels, and I can't overemphasize how much I agree with that. The only thing that's saved me is the suspended ceiling downstairs, and the clear opening between there and the attic. You don't want to be opening walls a year or two down the road because you need a new kind of wire somewhere.

    X10 is great when it works, but it's inherently limited. Unfortunately, the alternatives are WAY more expensive. You can do a really cool setup with a couple hundred dollars worth of X10 stuff, and old Linux PC, and a web app from Freshmeat. Start off simple, you can always add wireless tablets as touch screens down the road when someone is selling them off cheap.

  11. Dumb Terminals by Shads · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Using NX/VNC/etc type things to a terminal server should lower your cost substantially.

    --
    Shadus
  12. 2 choices: Reliable (hardwired) or cheap (PLC) by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Reliable or cheap. That's your major choice here. If you want reliable, what you want is an extra run of CAT 5e to every outlet and switch in the house, so that you can choose from a variety of hardwired remote control switches. If you want cheap- you'll want to go with X10, A10, or one of it's variants, in which case you'll want 3-wire power to every switch, including ground, and while you're rewiring all the electric anyway you'll want to install a signal bridge in the switch panel, so that the electirical phases are linked.

    For software, well, that depends on your favorite operating system and programming language: HAL or HomeSeer for Windows, Mr. House for Linux, all three of these choices have a variety of dynamic libraries that allow them to control most whole-house controllers.

    I personally went cheap- but still ran out of money about $1200 into my system. So I've got PLC, in a house that doesn't have 3 wire to every outlet, with only the incandescents and only 2 flourescents actually computer controlled. I also never got my infrared breakout boxes done to control my A/V equipment- and PLC turned out to be rather non-secure in my neighborhood for controling garage door opener and the like (in that it would leave my garage door open and illegal immigrant meth adicts would steal from me in the middle of the night). So if you have the money, you're much better off with a hardwired system. And go for a discount wholesaler like http://www.worthdist.com/ as opposed to somebody like http://www.smarthouse.com/>.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. Account for time by knightPhlight · · Score: 3, Informative
    I do high end low voltage installations for a living. And while most of the hardware is insanely expensive, the same results can be achieved with commondity equipment and open source solutions.

    That being said, pre-wiring is the most important aspect of what you will be doing. Depending on your budget you will want to wire CAT5 (or 6e) into all light switch and telephone locations. At a minimum you will need CAT5 to every video location.

    Wireless technology is too dependant on outside factors to be reliable. Good old copper gets the 1s and 0s to the correct place much more efficently. Plus, if it's called for, power over ethernet doesn't work very well wirelessly :) CAT5 isn't just for bits and bytes any more. It works great for remote thermostat sensors, infrared transmission, etc..

    While we install touch panels by AMX Corp. the same thing can be done with a cheap touch overlay'ed display, PXE, and VNC. I would recommend staying away from X10 products. If you don't want to spend the time to write your own control software, the NetLinx programming language (used on AMX products) is easier than learning QBasic. Some of their controllers show up on Ebay for reasonable amounts.

    The single most preventative aspect of this project is the amount of time involved. We will spend months in design, prewire, install, and programming on even relatively small systems. But if your wiring is not in place, no amount of time spent will be as productive.

  15. Took a while to find it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    But you could save yourself a lot of time by checking out Pluto

  16. http://homephonewiring.com/ by lizrd · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://homephonewiring.com/ is a really good website for understanding the whats and whys about installing proper cabling in your house. The site was a big help to me when I redid all the phone/data cable in my house last year. The guy does sell some stuff on the website, but the information is excellent whether you decide to buy from him or elsewhere. I did end up buying a punchdown block from him and it was a fair price and shipped quickly. Other stuff I got either locally or on Ebay.

    --
    I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
  17. Central Cooling! by SharpFang · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Put a water outlet/inlet by each socket, and a central cooling/pumping station outside. Install water cooling in each computer in the house, and have them quiet, fast and cool :D

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  18. False by bluGill · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not true. Ground source heat pumps work just fine in the far north. However you must go deeper. If you live in the south you can get by with pipes in a trench just a few feet below ground. In Canada you need to drill a well, as a shallow trench will freeze up and produce nothing. (A 24 foot deep trench might work, a 10 foot deep trench will not) If you have the land a shallow trench is much cheaper than a well.

    Maybe when you get to permafrost to very deep a ground source heat pump won't work even with wells, but most of Canada is isn't that cold.

  19. alternate forms of clever house by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    While having lots of cables to run all kinds of signals everywhere is a really cool idea, don't forget that while you have the drywall off it's a really good time to think about efficiency. Heating oil could be really expensive in the near future and the electricity to run your a/c isn't exactly going to get cheaper. A clever house is one that doesn't waste energy.
    • insulate like crazy. additional stud thickness, vapor barrier, expanding foam around every box or hole in the wall, insulate the hot water pipes (and cold depending on climate), insulate an attached garage even
    • shorten the runs of ductwork as much as possible, avoid running them through uninsulated attic or basement space (i have this problem)
    • upgrade to high SEER a/c compressors and high rated burners. climate may indicate heat pump.
    • use electric dampers or a zone system to turn off HVAC to unused rooms. i have my zones on individual timer/thermostats.
    • whole house fans are pretty cheap and can save a lot of money on a/c. swamp coolers are kind of white trash but work okay in some areas.
    • not sure about attic fans. usually if you have good attic insulation and gable vents and soffet vents you're fine, but if you have a large uninsulated attic with a lot of floor area in contact with living space it might help
    • thermo pane windows! not just double glazed, but the kind with an e-coating to cut down IR transmission through the glass, and no wood frames, they warp and leak within 3 years.
    • awnings don't last very long, but roof-like overhangs over south-facing windows are a good alternative.
    • find a good location for a wireless outdoor thermometer so you can monitor temperature and humidity well enough to intelligently choose whether to use the whole house fan/attic fan/swamp cooler/heat pump or a/c that day. or just leave the windows open if it's going to be 70 that day.
    • swap out electric range, oven, water heater, dryer, for natural gas or propane. swap out electric heat (baseboard or cental) for whatever fuel is cheapest in your area.

    Next thing to do in the cleverness front is to actively protect the house. Some of this will indeed involve wiring:

    • central-station monitored alarm and sensors on all doors and windows, don't forget fire and smoke alarms (county inspector probably won't let you for get the last two)
    • if it's an unoccupied cabin/second house you'll also want flooding and freeze alarms
    • outdoor lighting. maybe the automatic IR sensor kind, maybe plain old switch kind.
    • go crazy and wire up some video cameras. these can feed into a server so you can check what's going on around the house even when you're away.
    • actual deadbolts with reinforced doors and frames on all doors. double cylinder if next to a window or window-in-the foor but for gosh sakes let everyone know where the key is.
    • 2 or more fire extinguishers on every floor (near the exits)
    • evacuation plan (esp for kids) very important if you have any rooms that require more than one turn to reach an external door. doors to wooden patios don't count! and rope ladders for 2nd floor bedrooms

    Anyway, I just want to express that there is more to a smart house than just internet and audio/video.

  20. Re:anecdote about a canuckistani heat pump by sporktoast · · Score: 2, Informative

    The important difference there being that you are talking about a heat pump, and the earlier post is referring to a ground source heat pump (sometimes referred to as a geothermal heat pump). The principle is the same, where the heat is pumped to/from is completely different.

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  21. Re:anecdote about a canuckistani heat pump by jesup · · Score: 2, Informative

    As someone else stated, that's a plain air-source heat pump in all likelyhood (though even with ground-source, it may be more efficient/cost-effective to not size it for the coldest possible days of the winter, and use an auxilliary to supplement on the coldest 5% of days).

    Note that when a heat pump (air or ground source) can't keep up, it still produces a lot of heat, just not as much as the structure loses. The controller then calls for Aux heat, which can be electric (most common), propane/oil/nat.gas boiler via a heat-exchange coil, etc. Or it can be manual (wood stove).

    Typical modern air-source heatpumps have an efficiency ratio at 17 degrees of around 2.1-2.5 - i.e., they produce 210 to 250% of the heat you'd get by running the same electricity into a resistive heater (100% efficient). They're usually over 300% (even 350%) at 45 degrees.

    Ground-source heatpumps are more efficient because the source is a fairly constant 45-60 degrees, depending on where you live. In the mid-atlantic, 50-55 is the norm. New Hampshire is around 45-50. Texas is probably 60-65. (Bush has a ground-source heatpump (for cooling)). Thus in heating mode, they run at 300-400% efficiency regardless of outside temps (minus some pumping/etc losses). In cooling mode, they're also more efficient since they're dumping heat into a 45-60 degree heat sink, instead of trying to dump it into 90+ degree outside air. They also usually last longer (20-25+ years, as opposed to circa 13-15 for air conditioners and air-source heatpumps) since they're not exposed to the elements. Downside: considerably higher installation costs for trenching or drilling; hard to find local installers (this may change).

    We have 3 heat pumps (air-source, 2 dual-speed) with electric auxilliary (3 sections of the house with no way to duct between them). When outside temps get below 20-25ish, the aux's will occasionally turn on. We run a wood stove pretty much all winter, especially when it's very cold. With a small woodstove in the main section, it rarely if ever calls for aux if the outside temp is above 10, and not often when it's below 10.

  22. Re:As Michael Eisner would say by stanmann · · Score: 2, Informative

    To elaborate on this post and add my opinion. Figure out how much you can afford to spend, Then SPEND ALL OF IT. 5 years down the road, you will either want upgrades or not, and it may be cheaper for components or not, but don't cut corners. If you can afford to put cat5/6 x 4 in each room, do it because adding wiring later won't be any cheaper. and having the wiring already in means you can upgrade the wall plugable components. Don't cut corners on connectivity within the house. As others have suggested go as wild as you can afford(and is safe) on power. Unless you are personally running every conduit for power, coax and cat5/6, and pulling every cable; the wire is the cheap part.

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