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Convincing Your Superiors to GPL the Code?

jakobgrimstveit asks: "At work I've been developing an intranet/extranet portal framework in PHP based on many other peoples work, including quite a few PEAR modules. I've always wanted to release the coding framework as GPL and publish it on SourceForge, and my boss has - impressively enough - not been too negative about this. This has been going around in the organization for quite a while now, and finally the reply from the company's president was (not surprisingly): 'Why should we do so?' I now have the task of writing a document listing the main reasons for GPLing the code, and this is where I turn to the highly competent Slashdot crowd: How do I convince my bosses to GPL the code I've written? I assume many other developers have the same problems trying to convince their bosses to open up their code."

48 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. hahahaha by heinousjay · · Score: 5, Funny

    the highly competent Slashdot crowd

    Oh, sure, them. We'll just wait for them to get here...

    --
    Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
  2. Meh by interiot · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You must work in a different corporate america than I do. My biggest hope is that my company doesn't enforce their "all your copyright are belong to us" policy, wherein every little unix script I write, no matter how small, and even if nobody at the company will ever make money off of it or even use it, can't be taken with me to my next job.

    In Fortune-100-America, everything possible must be stamped with a (c) or (tm) or patent#. Advancement up the technical ladder is difficult without getting a few patents for the company.

    I think people here would have a heart attack if they knew I ever even thought about GPL'ing code, as that's almost tantamount to selling trade secrets.

    1. Re:Meh by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My biggest hope is that my company doesn't enforce their "all your copyright are belong to us" policy.

      In the past when I've worked for companies with overly broad copyright assignment clauses in their contract boilerplate, I've had them reword it to allow me to maintain copyrights on code that could be considered general purpose. The wording generally goes something like "... with the exception of code that implements functionality basic to the day to day tasks of software development," but sometimes is " retains the copyrights on pre-existing code brought to the company with him, and on modifications and enhancements to such code." I've never had anybody say no when I've asked in the past. Typically the terms are written by lawyer-folk who try to get as much as they can when writing contracts with the expectation of negotiations later.

      Either way, it can't hurt to ask. Worst case scenario, they say no. Same goes for when you're discussing salary.

    2. Re:Meh by MrResistor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, yeah, that's because Corporate America is run by MBAs who could care less about actually running a successful, efficient company, and really only implement policies aimed at getting them the cost-reduction bonuses specified in their contract, and then move on before anyone has a chance to realize how badly their cuts have screwed the company.

      The upside is that they generally have no idea what their employees are actually doing, so it's pretty unlikely that one of those clauses will actually get enforced.

      Still, shame on you for signing that contract. You should have negotiated.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    3. Re:Meh by Eightyford · · Score: 2

      couldn't care less

  3. Who, us? by elemental23 · · Score: 3, Funny

    highly competent Slashdot crowd

    It's funny, laugh!

    --
    I like my women like my coffee... pale and bitter.
  4. Sources of advice by NitsujTPU · · Score: 2, Funny

    I now have the task of writing a document listing the main reasons for GPLing the code, and this is where I turn to the highly competent Slashdot crowd

    Well, that was your first mistake.

  5. Tell them your reasons by Finuvir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you've wanted to GPL it since the beginning you must surely have some good reason for wanting that, right? Just tell them that reason, focusing on the business benefits. If there are no business benefits and you want to open-source it for idealogical reasons then you might need some help. Find business reasons (by looking at other business-led open-source projects, preferably similar to yours) or give up.

    --
    Why is anything anything?
    1. Re:Tell them your reasons by jakobgrimstveit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sure. I have many reasons for publishing the sourcecode, but couldn't write them all up in the post. Here's a few reasons:

      * Other people can gain knowledge from my code
      * I can gain knowledge by other people commenting/submitting patches to my code
      * Security vulnerabilities will be found under peer review
      * I will get Good Karma [tm].

      But me wanting to publish the code is not reason good enough for a boss, of course. He needs to see what he (as in "the company") can gain from this, so I'd like to get as much input as possible on how to articulate myself.

      --
      Jakob Breivik Grimstveit
      "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by."
    2. Re:Tell them your reasons by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's that second one that will convince your boss- but it needs rewording. Plugging into the Dogbert Buzzword Generator for a second, try:

      "I wish to maximize my productivity by leveraging the efforts of the Open Source Development Community, thus getting us development resources at no extra cost to the company."

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:Tell them your reasons by heinousjay · · Score: 4, Funny

      If I were granted mod points, I would mod you Evil.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    4. Re:Tell them your reasons by XO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, agreed.

      Exactly why IS it that you want to GPL the code?

      Will ANYONE benefit by having it GPL?

      Difficult to present a sales pitch only knowing what we want to achieve, and not having any inkling of the steps inbetween.

      --
      "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
    5. Re:Tell them your reasons by PastaAnta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, it is of course important to use the right wording, but I have found that these simple steps will generally lead success:
      - Be honest. Do not exaggerate any perceived benefits or skew the facts.
      - Be balanced. Write both positive and negative effects. Strengths and weaknesses. Cost/Benefit. Every coin has a flip side.
      - Be brief. Your boss will not take his time to read a report. If possible keep it within one page of text. If that is not possible it should contain an "Executive Summary" in ~200 words.

      3. profit...

    6. Re:Tell them your reasons by stinerman · · Score: 4, Funny

      -1 ... you didn't use "synergy".

    7. Re:Tell them your reasons by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Funny
      Difficult to present a sales pitch only knowing what we want to achieve, and not having any inkling of the steps inbetween.

      You must be new here. Everyone knows the step before "Profit!" is:

      (2) ...
      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  6. good luck by quewhatque · · Score: 5, Informative

    you might think it's a good deed for society, donated quality code to the public, but what would a business care about good deeds. they are doing business, which into itself stifles good competition, creating a better market, which does benefit society.

    the only way you can convince him is to state the advatages it gives your company, and not what it gives society.
    1. other people can fix your bugs and security holes for you
    2. other people can add features for you
    3. no need to pay for beta testers

    tell him you can still maintain your rights of it in that you still have the final say in what gets merged into the source code, and that code vandalism wont happen (people putting in their own backdoors)(as if anyone can immediately donate code and have it show up).

    do tell him that one negative of it is your competitors could also use your code, you wouldnt want to get fired for not telling him that someday.

    1. Re:good luck by chris_mahan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is an advantage to your competition using your code, especially if a lot of the competition is using your code. You will be seen as the de-facto standard settig body for the software, and that will attract good-will in the industry, allowing you to potentially hire their finest and brightest.

      Also, bear in mind that this will give you an insight of how they run their business.

      Finally, you could then turn around and sell them "SuperSoftware Enterprise Edition", since they alreay know and use and love SuperSoftware Standard.

      Ultimately, though, your boss does not care unless the business makes moeny off it before year's end.

      Remeber Google: If you want to build an $80B company in 6 years: Use linux and develop your own software.

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

  7. step by step argument by rnd() · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Here is the argument:
    • GPLing the code may have the effect of creating a community of people to enhance and debug the code.
    • If it's not a product that provides significant competitive advantage to your company, there is no harm in spreading it around in exchange for the benefit in the first bullet point.
    • There may be some positive PR associated with the company "founding" an open source project. Who knows, there may even be some way to consider it a charitable donation and write it off of the company's taxes.
    • Most importantly, there are a variety of Open Source licenses, so if your president balks at the GPL, consider the LGPL or one of the variety of others. They provide many of the benefits of the GPL but allow the boss to feel a bit more in control. You can always move to full GPL next year once his/her comfort level has increased.
    --

    Amazing magic tricks

    1. Re:step by step argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      • Never suggest that others are more competent than you.
      • It might provide advantage to the competition.
      • The kind of people who don't know why they should GPL a product don't care what the kind who do know think.
      • The fact that there is a dizzying array of licenses to choose from is not going to make management's decisions any easier.
    2. Re:step by step argument by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The LGPL still requires permission for others to sell derivative works.

      No it doesn't. As long as the others distribute the source of the LGPL'd code along with the closed binaries, they're in compliance. No additional permission is required.

      But since it allows for some closed source arrangements, it may be preferable to some bosses.

      Why would some bosses prefer that others be able to use the company's property in closed source products, commercially, without permission? I would think that they'd prefer to start with a license that is more restrictive than the GPL, rather than one that is less restrictive.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:step by step argument by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ``...if your president balks at the GPL, consider the LGPL...''

      I can't imagine why the boss of the company releasing the beast would prefer to use a license other than the GPL. The GPL's viral nature ensures that nobody else can incorporate the software into a product of theirs, without GPL'ing that product, too.

      At the same time, your company still can use the software in non-GPL'ed products, because they are the copyright holder. When you have contributors assign copyright to you (like the FSF does), you retain that right even when you check in patches from third parties.

      Almost any other license would put your company in a less favorable position, by allowing others to modify, extend, link to, etc. your software, without sharing their improvements with you.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  8. support by file+cabinet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    sell the support. that's what the linux folks do (RH, SuSE, etc.)

  9. Some ideas by Zocalo · · Score: 3, Insightful
    • Free development of new features, some of which you might not otherwise have thought of yourselves if you can get a development community started.
    • Free beta testing across a broader range of users and operating environments which should identify and enable the fixing of bugs far sooner.
    • Free positive P.R. for your company, especially if things really take off.
    • Free advertising for your company as well if you brand the package with your company logo and colours by default. Lots of people don't bother taking that kind of stuff out if it's not too obtrusive.
    There's far more things that can be free than just "beer", and it's libre too, so you can even have some free Karma.

    Realistically though some of that is going to need kickstarting which will require some small financial and time outlay. Things like provisioning the initial website and forums for your applications users to bounce ideas and code back and forth. Some man hours, probably yours, to apply patches and integrate new features until such time as you hopefully have an active enough community to let others external to the company help maintain the code on their own time and dime. Be realistic and give them some negatives too, albeit with a positive spin, to show that you've thought things through and demonstrate that the benefits outweigh the expense.

    Oh, and if you do eventually get the product GPL'd, submit the news to Slashdot as a "Slashback"; that should give your fledgling userbase and development community a running start!

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  10. What kind of doc will you write? by torpor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'll tell you what you should write: code.

    Seriously, if you want to convince anyone of the 'superiority' of open source versus hidden source code, then simply write some glue code of your own which does something special.

    That is to say, position yourself with GPL/OSS code in such a way that you prove that the open stratification of code, abstract on whatever levels you choose, is worth the effort. Write an app using GPL'ed API's that nobody else could've written, quite so quickly, if a deep and sudden understanding through direct study of contributed frameworks wasn't done first.

    The way to profit from F/OSS begins with your own territory. Stake out a claim, find those who support your effort, apply their work to yours, and do it fast.

    I wouldn't bother with 'reports' and 'presentations'.. thats all horseshit in the reality of "./configure ; make ; make install ; ./run" style working processes. GPL and F/OSS are about code and code is all about what runs, not what someone 'thinks' about it.

    Face reality: it ain't good enough until you've added your bit.

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    1. Re:What kind of doc will you write? by XO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, that's a pretty darn good reason why most gpl developers fail miserably in the commercial software world....

      --
      "Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
  11. My boss was pretty cool about it by vsync64 · · Score: 3, Informative
    He even let me set up a Web site to host some projects that we've made from scratch (more on the way) as well as just submitting patches to existing software. As far as convincing, it wasn't hard:
    • He already knows a little bit about open source (although he did complain about how TightVNC "ripped off" VNC), and said that he's seen firsthand that good software can come out of that process
    • Fixes and enhancements for things we use internally
    • A chance that if I get hit by a bus, someone else out there has already used the code and can be hired to help
    • Recruiting tool to technology people; shows some of our techniques, style, discipline
    • Increases our perception as a participant in the community, thereby making people friendlier when we ask for help, enhancements, etc.
    --
    TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
  12. The real question by Zphbeeblbrox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real question here is why did you wan't to GPL the code if you didn't already see tangible benefits to doing so. Don't get me wrong I love Open Source. I use it all the time in my job and at home. But if you don't already have tangible benefits in mind toward opens-ourcing the code then why did you want to open-source it in the first place.

    Or were you asking for benefits your companies exec's would understand? That may be a trifle more difficult to expound upon since we don't even know what your company does.

    --
    If you see spelling or grammatical errors don't blame me. I tried to preview but IE here at work borked the CSS
  13. why did you want to in the first place? by mister_jpeg · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It sounds like you wanted to GPL the code for ideological purposes. If that's the case, there are plenty of GPL zealots around here who will show up sooner or later.


    I think it would be more productive if you would share a practical reason for GPL'ing the code, if you had one.

    --
    -jpeg
  14. Relicensing by Dioscorea · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another potential positive aspect is relicensing. Some companies are so GPL-phobic that they will pay to have you (or your company) give them a one-off, non-exclusive waiver, so they can use your code without the (perceived) GPL albatross hanging round their necks. I've worked on open source projects (e.g. HMMER) that have made money this way.

  15. It's all upside by bwt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First off, there's no downside:
    - It costs nothing
    - It risks nothing, as there is no marketability
    - The licence clearly states no warantee, no support

    It's "fair" and good for "the community"
    - You use open source, so you should "give back"
    - Others may benefit from it, appreciate you
    - If everyone takes cost free steps for mutual benefit, everyone will be better off

    The upside is all positive:
    - You may get help finding & fixing bugs
    - You may get help enhancing it

    It highlights publicly good work that your company has done
    - Releasing code is comparable to publishing in a trade journal, and is valuable for the same reasons
    - Associates your company, department, and you specifically with an area of expertise
    - May place your company in higher esteem among the IT community, which helps hiring
    - Generally, networking with others with similar business problems is good experience

  16. What's the problem? by hahafaha · · Score: 2, Interesting
    You could turn to our good friend GNU Emacs for help. Just type in C-h-C-p. Or, if that doesn't work here are some reasons to use the GPL:
    • It's risk free
    • It allows competent people who do not have the opportunity to work for your boss to help your company along
    • It opens the software to a broader scope of people
  17. I agree... by joto · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...with your boss.

    If you can't find a coherent argument for why it's in your companys interest to release the source code under the GPL, then there is probably little reason to do it...

    Then again, unless your company is in the business of selling "intranet/extranet portal framework"s then it shouldn't hurt much.

    Apart from GNU ideology, the decision boils down to:

    • Will it create good relations to someone the company cares about?
    • Is the source code embarassing to show to others?
    • Will the company actually benefit from other users sending patches? (and no, this isn't as clearcut as open source ideologes claim, see the question below...)
    • Will this take significant amounts of your time that would be better spent doing other things that benefit the company more?

    If you can find reasonable answers to those questions, a reasonable boss will make a reasonable decision :-)

  18. Another Route by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the company doesn't feel okay about GPLing this piece of software, but doesn't really care about hanging on to it you might be able to talk them into simply disclaiming copyrights over it. One imagines that copyrights would then devolve to you, and you could GPL it.

    Outside of that check out ESR's various works for "business minded" reasons to go "open source". He has particularly compelling arguments for just the sort of thing you've written.

    -Peter

  19. Reasons to NOT GPL private code. by WarmNoodles · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1) Assume, you're not as bright as you think you are
    The security architecture flaws in the code will be revealed, exploits developed that with your self ingratiating credits attributing your handiwork to your company by way of email addresses with the companies domain and along with the unwitting conspirators names and emails who helped with the code all of which are very easy to track down using Google.

    GPL Lesson 1
    Do not attribute the code so that it can be linked back to the associates or persons or company you work for that uses it.
    Do not gain personally from your companies work. It just smells like your trying to look good in the GPL community.

    Assets of a company are company property even though you conceived developed and birthed the ugly baby, remember you're just its care taker.
    Do you really need that much attention; are you able to keep up with and tolerate hands all over your pride any joy?

    What happens if that encryption code you implemented, you know the one with the name "Base64_encryption() turns out to NOT be encryption at all, but no one bothers to tell you for 6 months?
    You and your company could suffer irreparable damage to the public's opinion when all their accounts are stolen from your base 64 encoded databases.

    Lesson 2 if you still have to enlarge your ego,
    Get a large consensus of reviewer in company, including legal department, and at least one officer of the company before anonymously releasing your baby into the world.

    By eliminating the perception of self ego ingratiation, you will gain true respect( A harder commodity)

    If the resulting GPL release could ever be traced back to theft of records, the SOX and HIPAA folks would roast those responsible.

    But the best reason to forget your idea, is simpler then all of the above.
    If god wants your source code GPL'd he will accommodate you by way of haxxors who will know if your code is good enough to publish better then you do when they see it.

    --
    Why did the haxxor cross the road? To bit to the other side..

  20. Never tried, but by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ask "Is keeping this closed going to make us money?"

    If it won't, and it's something that others (not your competitors) may find useful, then you may as well GPL it, to let others discover the bugs before you do.

  21. how about these by Tom7 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Here are some easy bullet-points:

    builds goodwill of a community (that may be your customers (?))

    can result in free development work by hobbyists that use your code

    allows you to legally make use of the vast library of other GPL code out there

    a free alternative may supplant proprietary solutions of your competitors (see IBM's various contributions..); best if you have no commercial plans for your product

    open source is a cool buzzword to have attached to your product and company at little cost

    Of course, if you can sell him on FSF dogma, then there are loads of philosophical advantages, too.

  22. Reasons by Julian+Morrison · · Score: 4, Informative

    1) Savings on coder time, extra bugs fixed - in each case by external devs your company doesn't have to pay. Downside: unless your project becomes well-known, this may never actually happen, or not enough to pay for itself.

    2) Code stability. You can sell services or derived products to third parties and tell them that the product is safe against your company going bust because the code is public. Downside: you then have to do the harder work of convincing the buyer not to "cut out the middleman" and implement a homebrew with the published GPL code. GPL code cannot be your only source of value!

    3) Compatibility with 3rd party extensions. If you GPL, you get a license to merge in anything else GPL'd and thereby add maximum features for minimum effort. Downside: if you muddy up who has the copyright, you may not be able to un-GPL it (nor sell special-case licenses to users who'd prefer closed source)

    4) Why not? If it's not a "strategic" asset but only an in-house tool for a secondary task, GPLing can't hurt. Downside: publishing code and dealing with bug-reports and user gripes can eat expensive dev time. If the business case is that marginal you may be forced to "publish and abandon".

    You do realise that it will often NOT make sense to open-source the code? In particular, a "strategic" app, or one that implies sensitive info through its design, or one that presents a public face you don't want to be hackable. Or simply if your boss thinks "I can't spare dev time for this nonsense". Businesses aren't charities (unless you're tax deductible).

  23. Re:MehFortune-100-America includes IBM, Sun, HP,.. by hadaso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > In Fortune-100-America, everything possible must be stamped with a (c) or (tm) or patent#.

    Fortune-100-America includes a few small corporations (E.G. IBM) that find it useful to contribute to open source. They don't do it because they "feel like giving away their property". They do it because they figured out it would produce more money for them.

    So the first thing one should tell one's boss is "See, it's good for IBM!".

    The point is not that if it's good for IBM it must be good for you. The point is that Releasing the code that you don't intend to sell as proprietary software might save you in development and maintenance (even if you do have a product that might be sellable, you still might gain more from releasing it and getting IBM to contribute in its development).

    If your boss understands the reasoning behind IBM's contribution to to "free software", then the boss's reasoning would become "reasonable, as in evauating savings in costs. (Actually the experience emplyees would obtain in one open source project can save indirectly when it applies later to incorporating "someone else's" open source project into your company's infrastructure).

  24. What can happen to a new OSS project? by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. Code is released under GPL, nobody cares, code is never updated and might as well never have been released.
    2. Code is released under GPL, code is pillaged and partially moved to other systems leaving the original code obsolete and inferior.
    3. Code is released under GPL and takes off as a succesful project.

    Option 3 is least uncommon by far.

    Unless you have good reason to think your system will be sufficiently popular to actually gather a community (remember; there is no OSS community; only individual OSS developers), you'll have a hard time making a business case.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  25. Highlights a weakness in GPL by pfafrich · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The viral nature of GPL may actually work gainst the goals of creating a global commons of reusable code.

    Consider this senario: you want to convice your boss to open source. To do you could first show him all the other open source code which is available to use. Without the viral clause this would work fine, your boss would see all this code, use bits of it and a year down the line might actually consider contributing some of their own code.

    The viral clause means this senario won't happen. Your boss will read the GPL and notice that by linking in that code they will need to also release their code under GPL. For an open source newbie this is not something he'll be willing to do. The consequence of this is that the boss will instantly dismiss the ideas of open source and never get to see the advantage. In essence the viral clause creates a block to acceptance.

    To get around this block, hunt out LGPL code or the other open source licences which do not restrict the freedom to distrubute products incorperating open source code under their chosen licence.

    Alternativly consider becoming a contractor. The rules of engagment of different here. As a contractor you have more freedom to develop your own code base. Employers pay you for the knowledge (and code) you have built up over the years and be more understanding of your need to continue building that.

    p.s. Yes I know viral probably not the best term to use here (see slashdot passim), just can't think of a better term.

    --
    There are four sorts of people in the world: fools, lunatics, idiots and morons. - Umberto Eco, Foucaut's pendulum.
  26. Ask him... by seanellis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's what I did.

    One of my team wrote a little interface wrapper between Ant (build system) and AlienBrain (source code management software), because he couldn't find one anywhere else.

    I argued that, without the FOSS nature of Ant, we had saved money and it was therefore our duty to contribute.

    The main stumbling block was that I had to show that this wouldn't materially advantage our competitors.

    The final version is at http://sourceforge.net/projects/antab/ in case anyone wants to look at it.

  27. My personal Method by MrCopilot · · Score: 2, Interesting
    #1 Use GPL code & librarys to do rapid development.
    It costs the company nothing & you get a near complete app which needs further development.#2

    Impress him with the features and ease of use/cost.

    #4 Explain that it must be rewritten at a significant toolkit/developer cost
    or
    for nothing, we can release it under the terms of the GPL.

    His next question is what are our requirements under the GPL? Every CD ships with the source code, keep copyrights & GPL notices, done. In my case, He agrees, since we are a hardware house and his money isn't made with CD sales anyway but with device sales.

    YMMV, he wants to know whats in it for him, NEVER FORGET Your time costs him money.

    --
    OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
  28. Raising all boats by rfisher · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Simple. Infrastructure code is not a competitive advantage. If we don't GPL it, our others will simply build effectively the same infrastructure on their own.

    If we GPL it, though, other people will adopt it instead of writing their own. We then reap the benefits of their improvements to the infrastructure.

    And just to be clear: We aren't GPLing our code that makes us unique & that is our real value.

    Not to mention the goodwill GPLing the code will generate for the company. Or possibly good press. Or the karmic benefits of giving back after having leveraged PHP & other open source code in building our business.

  29. Credibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only real advantage the higher-ups would consider is whether people who use the program would be people who are interested in whatever products your company sells. Open Sourcing a program is a good way to get your name out to people who may not have heard of your company's name (and make sure to put the name in the program to keep them happy, and the 2.0 release to say bad things about them because you got fired last week). The only problem is if your company doesn't have anything would be of special appeal to the open sourcers, then it might not make much sense. Heck, if they sell some product, could just call it free advertising. Yeah, yeah, we could talk all day long about linux, GNU, FSF, and the GPL, but the higher-ups' brains would have checked out long ago. That's the only really special appeal I could think of that they might consider.

  30. Company or personal copyright irrelevant to GPL by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My biggest hope is that my company doesn't enforce their "all your copyright are belong to us" policy ...

    That's nice but irrelevant. GPL doesn't invalidate a copyright, it relies on a copyright holder to offer the source as GPL. Whether that is a person or a company does not matter.

    ... wherein every little unix script I write, no matter how small, and even if nobody at the company will ever make money off of it or even use it, can't be taken with me to my next job.

    If you don't like the company owning everything you write don't take their money, their health insurance, etc. That's the tradeoff, every relationship has some give-and-take. "Size" doesn't really matter, why should the company spend time/money evaluating your code and scripts to determine what is worth keeping and what is worth letting go? And finally why you expect one employer to allow you to take something they paid for to your next employer?

    As I programmer I understand being emotionally attached to what one writes but come on, be realistic. Sure I would like to have some of the stuff I wrote in the past but damn I sure did like those regular paychecks that never bounced and just kept on coming so predictably.

  31. seek first to understand by the-build-chicken · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You're going to sde a lot posts about "show him the business reasons" and "make a business case for it" and "find a company that's currenlty benefiting from open source and share that"...and they're all great reasons if you want to spend the next 2 years convincing him (in which time your framework will be out of date and worthless).

    Or you could take a couple of steps back and think a bit about human nature. Most people (99.9999%..ok, I can't back up those stats) will take 2 years to make a logical decision and 2 minutes to make an emotional one (yes, even CEOs)...and what's the biggest emotional motivator? Fear!

    "Hey bob, did you hear company X (where X is a random competitor) is open sourcing their framework?"

    Now forget all about it, go have a coffee, when you come back to the office you will miraculously have one of upper management not only giving you permission, but actively directing and tasking you on his/her new "open source vision"...which he/she will sell as their idea, which is a double bonus, because if anything goes wrong it's not you in the firing line, however if it all goes right then people know who wrote the code :)

    Niccolo would be proud :)

  32. Tax write off? by vwjeff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is just a thought.

    I'm not a tax law expert but could a "code donation" be considered a charitable donation. Figure out how long you worked on the project and determine the monetary value.

    Tell them that using GPL code reduces their costs because you do not need to "reinvent the wheel" every time you work on a project.

    Technically you don't need to release any changes or additions you made to GPL'ed code if you keep the project in house. If your employer does allow you to release the code, you can always argue that there will be "free labor" from developers in the community. In reality, most projects on Sourceforge get little help from the community. Many projects go unchanged after they are posted. This does not detract from their value. There have been many circumstances where I have found a project that fits my needs but the maintainer is no longer active. These projects are often a great reference or starting point for a new project.

    If your employer still does not allow you to GPL your work tell them you will not use GPL code in future internal projects. You can tell them future projects will take longer because you will have no base to work off of. More time and lost productivity from you.

  33. Re:Go at it from the other end. by Sigma+7 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "What benefit would we get from NOT GPLing this code".


    That's basically a limited analysis. What you forget is that any piece of code can immediatly improved on and suddenly generate a small profit stream. As soon as it is released, the cahnges are easily made withoit help from the company, this sealing off that source of potential revenue.

    While there are ways around this problem, they generally require planning beforehand (e.g. source release scheduling).

    Besides - a lot of people haven't read the GPL fully enougd te understand it's ramifications. There's bound to be at least one newbie lawyer or administrator that thinks nothing can't be dane against code obfuscators.

    But truthfully, the competitor will instead say "I have no need for that/already got one."


    Do you know that for sure?

    R&D costs cannot be recouped as easily. Any competitor that needs to cut back will explore existing software before attempting to write their own.

    As a variation on a theme: "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, you created competition."

    2) Trade secret. (Coke formula for example.) Companies like to keep secrets cause that way they look smarter than I are. Again, bullcrap. Pepsi has NO interest in stealing Coca Col'as formula.


    Of course Pepsi isn't interested in Cake's formula. However, this does not mention other companies that would just love to get a boost in sales with something like counterfeit Coka Cola.

    There's plenty of arguments for GPLling code - the trick is finding some that work best for the business. Anything else is BuckShot reasoning.