Slashdot Mirror
HighDef Content to Require New Monitors
QT writes "Ars Technica has an interesting article on how HDCP figures into Microsoft and Apple's future OS plans.
Not only will future HD content not play in pure HD on most existing monitors (it will be degraded, or not shown at all), but high-end monitors today don't support HDCP yet. HDCP
has been coming for 3+ years, but geek fantasy items such as Apple's $3,000 30" Cinema Display don't even have support for it yet! The end result is that when Windows Vista ships
(and Apple's next OS), most people won't be able to watch protected HD content on their computers."
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
Yes Microsoft has plans to incorperate full-on video DRM.
But Apple has never said they will - this article just postulates they will have to.
Well, before ITMS would not people have also postulated that it would be impossible for Apple to sell songs without DRM that would restrict CD burning? After all, that was the standard of the time.
Some companies are smart enough to realize that obsoleteing millions of monitors is Not Smart, and will avoid doing so if they can. And Apple has shown they can avoid the more onerous restrictions set forth by giant industries that would rather have it otherwise. And making millions of computer monitors obsolete is right up there in terms of gall.
So the story poster would have been wise to note the speculative nature of the topic instead of proclaiming it as fact from Apple.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Well from simply reading the summary it sounds like all the protection is being held in the OS, therefore couldn't an Open Source OS circumvent this protection. Just load it up in Linux and none of us nerds have anything to worry about. In fact, we could put it in Linux rip off the DRM and burn it to whatever media we need, then we're home free for whatever format we need, DVD, CD, Blu-Ray, even playable back in Windows and Mac.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
and DVDJon, our Lord and Saviour, will break this nonsense scheme in 3..2..1..
That means nobody will watch "protected HD content," thereby killing this idea from the get go.
There's a bit of info about all this over at DRMadness as well, though it's aimed specifically at Blu-ray and HD-DVD (but that's HighDef content as well, isn't it)...
2. Aim at foot.
3. Pull trigger.
The end result is that when Windows Vista ships (and Apple's next OS), most people won't be able to watch protected HD content on their computers LEGALLY."
about 30 days after the first piece of media is released I'll be able to watch it under linux and BSD in full resolution as someone will have foundand released a crack/hack/mod/whatever.
They are wasting their time trying to "protect" this stuff. all they are doing is finding new ways to piss off the legit consumer.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Seriously. Hollywood has an organized boycott coming for this. Not only are they screwing every HDTV owner who lacks HDMI or DVI/HDCP inputs (a huge number of sets were sold with component only inputs), but now they plan to screw computer owners over too. Just don't buy their shit. Let the new Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD decks sit unsold on shelves for a year or two and watch the these cartels shit their pants with all that unsold inventory. Maybe they'll even respond to consumer wishes afterward!
But it won't happen spontaneously. An organized boycott is the only solution. --M
1) Ordinary people won't bother watching HD content on their computers - it will be too cumbersome.
2) Pirates won't care, as always, ripping to DivX or whatever and then watching as usual.
3) Ordinary people will discover DivX rips (family, friends of pirates) and watch HD content, not knowing that they're not supposed to. The pirates will mumble something about bad big corporations but they won't really care as long as they can watch the latest episode of Lost.
When Will These Idiots Get It?
That's OK, I was planning on boycotting and/or stealing and/or disabling the DRM on any such protected content anyway. If they don't want me to see it, I'll avoid buying it, thanks anyway. I'd download or create ripped DRM-less versions if forced too.
Spending a lot of time and effort downloading or ripping content will still be a lot cheaper than buying a multi-thousand-dollar monitor. Besides, most NTSC content is acceptable anyway...
If they want us to invest so much money in friggin' DRM'ed players, why don't they just give away their content in lo-res so only those wh ocan afford it, will be able to see the HD?
I ain't spending any money on a HD movie if all i'm getting is lowdef. If I already paid for it, why should spend even more? I just hope someone declares DRM to be inconstitutional or something...
Score one for the little guy!
And by "little guy" I mean "multinational media conglomerate."
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
And thus prompting people to search for ripped/pirated HD content that is free of HDCP. Brilliant!
..until it shows up on Bittorrent an hour later.
C'mon, there has to be someone in Hollywood smart enough to figure out that copy protection this draconian is going to seriously encourage cracking? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to do everything possible to make it easier for their paying customers to get to their content rather than making it more irritating, unreliable, and expensive?
Oh, right. Oh well, not much worth watching anyhow.
The idea is that Vista will determine whether or not your system has an HDCP monitor. If it does not, it will either play the video at non-HD quality (downsampling, I suppose) or not play it at all. Thus, the OS will force you to upgrade your monitor to an HDCP compliant one if you want to watch HD.
Microsoft could choose not to implement this, thus allowing HD to be viewed on Legacy monitors.
I certainly sympathize, but you do realize that all (legal) DVD players already have this property...
Mike
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
Actually, I was just considering not watching TV or movies any more, reading a good book and using my computer to access a few forums and do some writing. The kind of output coming out of the entertainment industry is so bad nowadays that I can't imagine anyone putting any effort into protecting it, or stealing it. It's all crap, and it isn't worth consideration. The whole battle seems like a bunch of silly bastards battling over who gets to eat the most shit from the dungpile.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
If it is something that has to be visible to the human eye, your DRM can be broken.
If it is something that has to be audible to the human ear, your DRM can be broken.
Welcome to the age of computers, have a nice day.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Sorry, but I can get them out easily as the iPod simply mounts as a drive and I can copy what I like out. Yes the filenames are obscured but since the ID3 data lives in teh file it's a moot point. 3rd party tools just make it a little handier.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The popular Dell 20" wide screen (2005FPW) is already a victom of this. The monitor's native resolution is 1680x1050 and so it should be able to render 720p without a problem. However, you can't get HDTV content from either digital cable or directv receivers via DVI. Currently, going analog via Component In will get you HD, but unfortunately the monitor only offers DVI, VGA, S-Vid, & Composite. I use a Component to VGA transcoder, but the solution is neither cheap nor elegant.
Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
Well why not make the dongle emulate a monitor and just pass the signal straight through to YOUr monitor?
TFA mentioned revoking the keys that such a device would use, but it seems to me that it would be easy enough for someone to give the passthru a flashable firmware. I don't see it being impossible to read a key off an existing device, either.
And imagine if someone got the key from a Viewsonic (or even better, a Dell) monitor and it got put n everyone's dongle....the only way to stop that would be by cutting off everyone who bought that monitor. And that might open us up a nice little class action lawsuit.
---- Watch out for snakes!
microsoft is incorporating a lot more than HDCP restriction requirements in their winhec standards. They are also building in encrypted "protected media path", allowing revocation of components in vista based PC's and requiring hardware and driver based DRM for "windows logo testing approval"
They are also requiring a new form of device ID which is designed to prevent any emulation without contacting the emulated device's originator
I tried to give slashdot the heads up on this over a month ago and, like a fellow poster, my story was rejected.
There's a reason Vista took so long to develop, and that reason has nothing to do with consumer-centric design
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Microsoft could choose not to implement this, thus allowing HD to be viewed on Legacy monitors.
No they couldn't. The DRM algorithms for HD content are patented and controlled by a media consortium. Furthermore the keys for the system are protected as trade-secrets. This consortium will refuse to license the algorithms or keys to anyone who does not sign a contract agreeing to play thier rules. It would be illegal for Microsoft to create an implementation that was not blessed by the patent/key holders.
So the choice that Microsoft and Apple have is to either play HDCP'd content the way they are told to play it (which is downgraded on non-HDCP monitors) or to not play it at all.
HD DVD technologies will probably take years to go anywhere anyway, regardless of DRM or no DRM.
Why was the CD a big success? It offered enormous convenience over the existing forms (records and tapes) and an enormous leap in quality - cracks and pops gone. Wow and flutter gone from tapes. No rewinding necessary.
Why was DVD a big success fairly quickly? It wasn't just the improved quality over VHS. Mostly it was the ease of use. A small disc that doesn't have to be rewound, doesn't snag, doesn't have tracking that goes out of alignment, and the quality was much much better.
But for most people, DVD is good enough. A new format will offer no extra convenience, and will cost a lot to buy - certainly for a fair while (high quality displays have always been expensive). Therefore, high definition disc formats will probably be relegated for years, perhaps decades, to the audio/videophile segment - a very small fraction of the market. Just like LaserDisc really. For everyone else, normal DVDs are cheap and good enough.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Or maybe, I'll just watch all the old unprotected content that I have lying around. Heck, maybe I'll just read a book. They still let us do that right?
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
-
Why bother protecting DVI? Have any prior DRM systems been attacked through DVI?
-
About key revocation (part of HDCP afaik): What is the benefit of being able to revoke keys known to be compromised?
-
A little revocation scenario: Company X sells 10 million HDCP-enabled devices. Someone devises a crack that theoretically compromises the key on all those devices (e.g. by finding a flaw in X's key generation). Media companies consequently block all 10 million devices. Does X have to replace 10 million devices for free, or are 10 million customers stuck with a useless device?
Bonus question: why would I want this crap? I tend to like movies for their storytelling, and am quite happy with the quality that DVDs offer me. If this stuff ever takes of, I'll just be happily buying used DVDs from suckers who upgrade their collection to HD.No, because cracking CSS was easier. And chances are the next generation will be cracked in a similar manner. I have not yet seen any DRM research suggesting otherwise. But any measure against hacking makes sense only if you make all other possible attacks equally difficult. (Why have a steel door if there is an open window?) Why the inconvenience for your customer, if you know it will have almost no positive effect?
Yes, you can prevent a hacked player from playing back a legally purchased copy on a unprotected device. But apparently most piracy today comes from P2P networks. How will you be able to tell which key was used to decrypt a DRM-free copy that shows up on a P2P-network? Release groups would probably just keep their cracked key secret. (Watermarks? Not robust against removal afaik.) Revocation can neither prevent spreading of content to P2P, nor playback of unprotected files obtained from P2P.
If you sell HDCP-enabled products, make sure that you know your cryptography very, very well. Or you might go out of bussiness soon.
More than 5 years ago Circuit City was selling a DVD format called DVIX, as I recall. I remember when I was looking for my first DVD player how hard the salesdrone tried to get me to buy a DVIX player. As I recall the "movies" were as little as $4 but could only be played on a DVIX player which had to be hooked up to a phone so the player could dial home and validate the disk. I looked at the restrictions and figured out that the system was an ugly grab for my wallet. It relied on a supposedly free system which would fail because it could not support itself. I didn't care for the idea that I could buy a movie and not be able to take it to my friends house to watch it together. DVD's were, I decided, a much better deal.
Long and short... DVIX and all it stood for died. Died hard. Died ugly. Died and left customers holding useless garbage that, AFAIK, they can no longer play. So much for trust. This is a very abbreviated description of DVIX I know; however, I believe I have the essential points more or less correct. To this day I have never bought anything in a Circuit City store. To me DVIX, it's completely dishonest representation of value and functionality, and Circuit City are irrevocably maligned together. And I didn't even get burned by them.
My son just learned that he cannot play Windows Media Player files on his new iPod. Some time ago I'd tried to him into ripping his CDs to MP3 using CDex. However, Microsoft made Windows Media Player so EASY to use. So my lazy, instant gratification, boy learned a hard lesson about DRM and industry standards. CDs, $85. Refurbished iPod, $200. Look on his face when he tried to rip the newest DRM protected Foo Fighters album he'd bought. Priceless!
So, what about the new methods of DRM? I believe everyone needs to take a deep breath. Step back. Relax. With DVIX, DRM was relatively new. It is not as new any more. The only hope for DRM in the entertainment industry is for Congress, et al in other countries, to enact laws requiring it. On the other hand I think the only hope for Congress is that they don't. The people are actually fairly slow to learn collectively and the world does seem to be changing pretty fast these days. However, collectively, given time, a majority of people will come to realize that they are being lied to and will assert their rights. And when they do? I believe all hell will break loose and both Congress and the entertainment industry will fall victim to an electoral enema.