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King Kong vs. Movie Pirates

Caoz writes "The New York Times is running an interesting article about movie piracy with Peter Jackson providing some comments. There a couple of comments that I thought were surprising. Like an executive admitting that file sharers are not the biggest threat to Hollywood. From the article: 'There is a very dark, black cloud in this game. It's not in the hands of kids who live next door to you; it's organized groups and organized crime.' Why are they suing bitorrent users then?"

25 of 485 comments (clear)

  1. Bitorrent User Group by fembots · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not in the hands of kids who live next door to you; it's organized groups and organized crime." Why are they suing bitorrent users then?"

    Haven't you realized this very dark and cloudy organized group they're referring to is the Bitorrent User Group (BUG)?

    I do have another question though - Why don't consumers buying/wearing fake branded products get arrested?

    A Nike t-shirt is probably as easy and cheap to copy and produce as a DVD movie. Imagine law enforcement officers roaming the streets and ripping counterfeited t-shirts off materialistic girls.

    1. Re:Bitorrent User Group by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Why don't consumers buying/wearing fake branded products get arrested?"

      They're (supposedly) going after the uploaders, not the downloaders. Unfortunately, when they go after sites like Suprnova, what they're doing is more like going after the yellow pages for having the phone numbers listed for businesses that sell fake branded products.

      It's a pity they've got their heads up their collective asses. I'd be happy to pay for on-line content if they'd provide a reasonable service. You'd think iTunes would have taught them a lesson.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Bitorrent User Group by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Haven't you realized this very dark and cloudy organized group they're referring to is the Bitorrent User Group (BUG)?
      Probably not what they're referring to. But in any case: if you stop the leak at the studio, you've stopped one copy. If you bring down BitTorrent, you've stopped the remaining 9,999,999 copies. That's why BitTorrent gets the attention.
      I do have another question though - Why don't consumers buying/wearing fake branded products get arrested?
      Same principle. Do you pick them off one by one, or go for the hive? In addition it's not against the law to get ripped off, which a consumer can always claim.
      A Nike t-shirt is probably as easy and cheap to copy and produce as a DVD movie.
      Having done both screen printing and DVD burning, I heartily disagree. A six-station screen printing machine will set you back about USD $8,000, before buying ink and screens and blank shirts and a dryer and a ventilated place to do it all. DVD-R's are a much easier product to make.
    3. Re:Bitorrent User Group by Gooba42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't the studio leak the precursor to the 9,999,999 copies?

      Do you stop a leak in the old dam or do you wait for it to collapse and then try to build a new dam?

      --
      I just found out there's no such thing as the real world. It's just a lie you've got to rise above. - John Mayer
    4. Re:Bitorrent User Group by donscarletti · · Score: 3, Insightful
      With something like bittorrent where effectively all the uploading is done by the downloaders who could they sue if not supernova?

      If you think they should be suing someone better, be careful what you wish for.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    5. Re:Bitorrent User Group by Simonetta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Piracy has the very real potential of tipping movies into becoming an unprofitable industry, especially big-event films. If that happens, they will stop being made," said Mr. Jackson

          I'll be glad to do anything that I can to help - help the pirates, that is - if anything that I can do will help stop another $150 million lame remake of silly old movie from being made.
          Who needs a $150 million remake of King Kong? Not you, not me, and certainly not anyone in the film industry.
          These people get huge salaries and bonuses to be creative. Endless nonsense remakes of stupid television shows and moldy old classic movies is not being creative. Which means that they are not doing their job. Which means that they should be replaced with people who are creative.

          That dark cloud over Hollywood is the choking residual fallout from $10 billion dollars wasted in the past five years on bad, boring, useless, and numbing remakes of disposable television shows and fifty-year-old 'B' movies.

          C'mon, you guys are Hollywood. You are supposed to be better than this.

    6. Re:Bitorrent User Group by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Far as I know, an escort service is perfectly legal in the UK and at least parts of the US. It's only illegal if the escorts break the law, i.e. offer sex for money. This is the same reason massage parlours aren't illegal.

      No reason why the Yellow Pages should be sued if they accept these adverts in good faith.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
  2. BT Users by TheStupidOne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why are they after BT users more than the crime syndicates? Because BT users are a far more high-profile target. And BT users don't have the money or clout to get themselves out of trouble. When a BT user is charged, they usually fall on their knees begging for a settlement. When (more like if) the crime syndicates are charged, money talks and suddenly the case "disappears".

    It's like asking a bully why he picks on the little guys. He's afraid of messing with kids his own size.

    --
    unable to resolve function slashdot.sig(), aborting...
    1. Re:BT Users by shark72 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I imagine that if I only got my news via /., I'd be under the assumption that movie studios, law enforcement, et. al. target individual sharers exclusively and don't go after the large-scale distributors. Slashdot tends to cover the stories of suing file traders with much more regularity than they cover stories of shutting down DVD factories in China (presumably because Slashdot readers have more empathy for the former), so your confusion is understandable.

      The reality is that law enforcement and copyright holders, just like you and me, can indeed walk and chew gum at the same time.

      This false assumption is common in all walks of life. If you've ever wondered out loud why the cops aren't out busting the drug dealers and drug smugglers, etc. instead of writing you that ticket for failing to come to a complete stop, the answer is that law enforcement is indeed busting drug dealers and gun smugglers. They are fully capable of doing this, despite the fact that the officer happens to be writing you a ticket at that precise moment.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
  3. movie revenue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't like this article. It claims that box office releases are "unprofitable, expensive form of marketing".
    The truth is that hollywood has made an art of hiding profits ever since they started signing profit sharing agreements with actors and directors. Sure, a crappy movie isn't going to make a good ROI. But the movie industry generally makes out quite well.

  4. Why sue BitTorrent users? Simple. by Quantum+Skyline · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Why are they suing bitorrent users then?

    Because it is easier.

  5. Why are they going after BT users by multiplexo · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1) as stated elsewhere most BT users won't break your knees, crush your nuts in a vise or bust a cap in your ass if you go after them.

    2) Since BT users are not prone to violence they're easy targets. It's kind of like the TSA at airports, rather than doing something useful but hard, such as securing the borders or inspecting the millions of containers shipped through our ports every day, each one a potential WMD delivery system, Homeland Security has chosen to do something useless and easy, namely harass people at airports. I'm sure there's some division of the **AAs that has some metric where they are rewarded for the number of pirates they catch, regardless of whether or not those pirates are the Yakuza, Mafia or the Tongs who are making a million copies of Spiderman 2 at a pop or if they're BT users who downloaded a low resolution transfer Dr. Who episode. In large organizations it's often OK to do things that are completely worthless, so long as you look really busy while you're doing them.

    --
    cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
  6. Because by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Why are they suing bitorrent users then?
    Because movie piracy is still illegal?

    Five years ago when Napster was getting sued, everyone on Slashdot--editors included--rallied behind the idea that they should lay off the companies providing the apps and going after the individual infringers, because that was fair and logical. I think nobody expected they'd actually do that. And now they are, and so the rallying cry has changed.
    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
    1. Re:Because by elgatozorbas · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Congrats for this completely to the point but controversdial opinion on /. ! What I don't understand is that (supposedly) high educated people like can be so incredibly biased, both in the summaries as in the comments. Things like 'an executive admitting that file sharers are not the biggest threat to Hollywood'. WTF is 'admitting' about this? Copying IS illegal. I may not like the movie industry, but this guy should not be justifying why (initially) they did not like the unauthorised copying of artistic works. And to answer the question 'Why are they siuing bitorrent users?'. Because, even if they are not the biggest threat, they ARE illegal.

      I am so sick and tired of this uncomprehensible juvenile attitude 'I can do everything', 'I am entitled to everything': the moment you start to do illegal stuff you give up your integrity and can get caught. There you have it. Think movies are too expensive: don't go to the theatre. Don't like the music industry: don't buy records. Dont like M$: use linux. But please stop abusing the fruit of other people's creativity and complain about getting caught. BIASED news for weenies, allright.

    2. Re:Because by Suidae · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What I don't understand is that (supposedly) high educated people like can be so incredibly biased, [...] sick and tired of this uncomprehensible juvenile attitude

      The tech community does tend to have a lot of smart people, but smart doesn't mean 'mature', 'reasonable' or 'consistant'. Smart people can be just as dumb as everybody else.

      The community is made up of lots of very young people (say, under 25) who voice their opinions loudly and frequently. Many of us with more moderate opinions just don't say much about the topic.

  7. Re:Why sue BitTorrent users? Simple. by log0n · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yep. It's easier to be lazy and look slightly useful than to actually effect change. Office Space said it best.

    Just like most things in life. Play the part just enough to have people think you're doing something while really only barely skating by.

  8. It's not "just like shoplifting" by DaveRobb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "I always thought that piracy connotes something glamorous," Mr. Meyer said. "Let's call it what it is: theft. I think it's just like shoplifting."

    Bollocks. If I were to take something from a shop, then the shop can't sell it to someone else, and thus can be said to have lost not only revenue but also an asset.

    If I were to copy a movie from the Net, then you might at a stretch argue that I've deprived the studio of revenue (although I still pay to go and watch movies which are good - if I download one and it sucks, I don't pay to go and see it), but I think it's pushing it to say that I've stolen an asset. It still exists, right where it was. The movie studio doesn't have anything less than they did when we started.

    Revenues from movies are dropping because the studios are rarely coming out with anything original. Stop making dull sequels, or remakes of 60s TV shows, and perhaps we'll see movie revenue return - but likely not at the cinema, as the article says; people are now commonly watching movies on their home cinema system.

  9. Interesting numbers.. by tmasky · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From TFA:
    Hollywood reported global revenue of $84 billion in 2004, according to PricewaterhouseCoopers, the accounting firm. With most theatrical releases amounting to little more than an unprofitable, expensive form of marketing, DVD's have become Hollywood's lifeblood: together with videos, they kick in $55.6 billion, or about two-thirds of the industry's annual haul, with box-office receipts making up most of the rest.

    From that paragraph, isn't it clear that accessibility ("freedom" to an extent?) is what people want. People want to be able to get access to a movie when they want to and watch it in whatever way they feel like.

    The whole system is broken, because it's old and redundant. Money is spent exorbitantly in all the wrong places and, quite simply, isn't obeying simple rules of economics. You want to push your product out as much as possible at a price that people are prepared to pay.

    The only saving grace is that this antiquated system is doomed. I, for one, welcome the new era of "Pro-Ams" and the demise of DRM.

  10. Re:Bruce Sterling had a great idea in his novel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, according to the US economic census the total revenue of all sorts of entertainment and recreation was about $142 billion. That includes live performing arts, bowling alleys, and a lot of other stuff you can't put on a website for download.

    The total economy was over $18 trillion in 2002, so arts and entertainment represent about 0.7% of the total US economy in this census. I'd say the effectiveness of the tactic would be about nil.

    The only smaller categories in the census were management companies (mutual funds and the like) and educational services (Princeton SAT prep, commercial trade schools like DeVry, corporate training outfits). Categories taking in over a trillion dollars include construction, manufacturing, wholesale trade, retail trade, finanace & insurance, and health care & social assistence. Hollywood is barely on the financial radar.

  11. King Kong by SeaFox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's funny the summaries title mentions King Kong. I've had a copy (VHS) on order with Amazon for a couple months now. I want to get it for my father, the problem is it doesn't seem to be in stock. I can get bilked by the "used" sellers or eBay. But I want a new copy from Amazon (so I can add a few dollars and get free shipping). They even lowered the price of the item while it's been out of stock, but I have yet to find out when more will be in.

    Does the MPAA have anyone to blame but themselves when people pirate movies they can't, in fact, buy in stores?

    Disney is always doing the "this is the last time it will be available for awhile" marketting stunt to create a buying frenzy with their classic films, then try to figure out how to create sales the rest of the year, when they could just let things be steady year long.

    I want to get Sin City on DVD, but the one they released has way too small a list of extras. I fully expect a "deluxe" edition to appear (like with Pulp Fiction). Result? I'm not buying anything.

  12. China by Nice2Cats · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Why are they suing bitorrent users then?

    Because China has nuclear weapons and laughs in their faces.

  13. More Of The Same Pro-Infringment Junk by Goo.cc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Why are they suing bitorrent users then?"

    Because they are distributing material that they have no right to distribute?

  14. Re:But... by JunkmanUK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree, and I believe releasing to DVD and cinema simultaneously would completely destroy cinema, the question is, does anyone care if cinema is destroyed, really?

    The flip side: I'm sure everyone knows someone who has a movie rental account and are doing the 'Rent, Rip and Return'. We have a huge choice of online rental sites in the UK and many people have production lines of movies which they'll probably never watch, with all the trailer crap taken out. The publishers will never allow that level of piracy to take place until they have a watertight copy protection mechanism (which will never happen).

  15. Re:Superbowl Counterfeit squads by blancolioni · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Did you really just call somebody you disagree with a communist? That's so last century, man. You have to call them terrorists now.

  16. copyrights and patents by falconwolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All the fruits of all human endeavour belong to all humanity. The songs you write, the films you make, the programs you write, the inventions you invent, the clever little logos you create -- they are all ours and you can't take any of them off us. And if you don't like that, I suggest you stop having ideas.

    BS! My ideas are my own, though someone else may of had similar ideas. Giving someone the right copyright or patent something for (key phrase, which I'll come back to later) a limited tyme benefits the person and society. Not everyone will work on something unless they benefit from it and with many people that means making money. Many things won't exist if the creator doesn't benefit in some way, and because most people have to eat, and many have to provide a roof over their family's heads, if they can't make money or at least try to then they won't bother with creation. Now back to the key phrase, "limited tyme". I'd like to see copyright and patent terms go back to the 14 years with a one 14 year term extension Thomas Jefferson came up with. If you can't profit on something within 28 years then you're doing something wrong or it's not much of a benefit. By having longer terms it means those who make it, ie make a lot of money or some such, doesn't need to create as much to keep the money coming in, therefore long term limits discourage the creative process which is exactly what copryrights and patents are supposed to encourage.

    Falcon