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PayPal to Offer Micropayments

lazarus corporation writes "According to a press release on shareholder.com, PayPal are introducing micropayments processing fees for digital goods. Will this allow musicians to do away with record companies completely and successfully sell their own music online?" It looks geared to be the under $2 area and not the couple of pennies area, so I think calling it "Micropayments" is a bit much, but it's something. Still amazing that in 2005 nobody has figured out a way to make it simple to charge a penny on-line.

10 of 299 comments (clear)

  1. Transaction Costs by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Still amazing that in 2005 nobody has figured out a way to make it simple to charge a penny on-line.

    The cost is in the partnering. Even if you can get the user to put in money in large blocks that don't kill you in financial transaction fees ($20+ is my guess) instead of being charged a few cents a day/week, you have the transaction overhead of whatever unique system each site uses (per page, per article, per section, per day, any of these with caps...), subtracting the fees from each user, aggregating the total payment to each site and providing statements to all.

    The key to the micropayment game is aggregation of volume . If your company is processing 2000 payments per day of $0.01 each from 2000 different people, it's probably costing you more than it's worth. However, if you're processing five million payments a week with an average individual's cost being around $0.25, you might be breaking even. If you could get two dozen major sites and hundreds of smaller ones on board, you might make money.

    Either the financial costs (actually taking and distributing money) need to be reduced, or the number of transactions per person/site need to go way up. I don't see banks and credit card companies giving out money for cheaper, so, here's the hard question: How do you get widespread buy-in on a system that only works once it has widespread buy-in? Who's the philanthropist who will fund a losing game for as long as it takes to become profitable?

    Hey, maybe the government is interested! They own the money, anyway...

    --
    That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    1. Re:Transaction Costs by AviLazar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's not forget things as fee's. When you use your Credit card to pay PayPal there is a merchant charge. This charge varies but it can (easily) be around 1.25 + 1% of sales. This is paid by the merchant, not the client. So if you are buying something for 1 cent, even 25 cent's, the merchant is not only not making money, he is losing money!

      Now a company like PayPal probably has a pretty good system in place, where their credit card charge is less then mom-n-pop merchant - but they still have costs

      It's not that we can't do micropayments, it's just that it is not cost effective.

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    2. Re:Transaction Costs by gfreeman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the point that was being made was that it should be insignificant to PayPal to move data around internally. The charges you mention will only be brought into play when cash is withdrawn from the merchants' accounts. Moving pennies from one account to another should be free, given that commissions are paid upon withdrawal.

      With credit cards, there's no "float" - all payments go in and are paid back to the merchant minus commissions. (I am assuming that's true, please correct me if you know different).

      I agree with the OP - it's surprising that in 2005 there's no real micropayment infrastructure in place.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
  2. Stuff that matters? by EvilCabbage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Screw Paypal. Seriously. I've quit dealing with anybody only accepting Paypal as payment methods, I've voiced my dissent (in a calm fashion) over their continued poor service and especially after the recent charity "issues", I'd urge other people to do the same.

    1. Re:Stuff that matters? by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Name an alternative.

      My online game accepts donations. I've looked very hard two years ago when I added that feature, and I found a total of two services I could use (PayPal and Moneybookers). Everyone else asks either for a ridiculous set-up fee or is otherwise unsuited for small businesses, donations, etc.

      I started offering both. In 18 months, a grand total of $10 was sent through Moneybookers, compared to a few thousand through Paypal. Guess which one I dropped.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  3. Re:God forbid.... by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    God forbid ... that the artists themselves would have the ability to sell and market their own music without big companies trying to get their piece of the pie.

    It's not entirely clear what you mean, but I'm assuming you're refering to a company like PayPal "getting a piece of the pie" by facilitating those transactions of a buck or two. What's your notion, instead? That the musicians re-invent micropayments themselves, establish the infrastructure, the banking connections, etc., thus cutting out "the man," and then having no time to ever write or record another lick of music?

    We're a civilization of specialists. Most musicians don't grow all of their own food, either, and instead allow other people to get a "piece" of their food money. Someone else gets a piece of the pie when the band replaces the brake pads on their van, too. Making it easier for artists to handle small transactions is making it better for the artists, but it isn't better for anyone if the people building systems like that have no expectation of making a living off of their own efforts and investments themselves.

    Certainly artists that don't find this sort of tool useful can just... not use it! If tip jars at bars and coffee houses are more their speed, then that's always an option, too.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  4. Structural problems by confusion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are some structural problems with micropayments that need to be overcome:

    - paypal sucks. Everytime I think I should give them a second chance, they bombard me with 10 more reasons I need to stay away. They are like Best Buy in that regard.

    - Charge/merchant processing is still horribly expensive, to the point of making this unattainable. Long ago I had thought that paypal was going to smash the deathgrip that charge processors had on the world, but that has not come to pass, as they likely are also a victim of the charge processors.

    If I spend $.50 per month on digital media, and even if charges are batched monthly AND they get a super deal on charge processing costs, they will likely end up with

  5. scam.. expensive.. what else comes to mind? by Exter-C · · Score: 3, Insightful

    seems overly expensive for "micropayments"..

  6. Re:Spam by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Been tried.. wouldn't work.

    1. Who would collect these payments? You really think a spammer in korea would pay them? The ISP? I don't use my ISPs mail system (neither do spammers, btw.)
    2. Mailing lists... LKML would go bankcrupt in about a day.

  7. More than that by JavaRob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think nobody wants to BUY anything for a penny, either. Or -- they don't want to make hundreds of tiny purchases. No matter how easy it is. All micropayments do is *discourage* you from using a service more -- because every little thing you do will cost you money.

    Think about it -- what do we have in the real world that works in micropayments? The closest thing I can think of is phone service (where each minute of long distance costs you 7 cents, or whatever).

    And most phone companies are trying to AVOID the metered usage model, because people don't like that realization that as they're talking, that money is draining slowly out of their pocket. So - unlimited local calls, free nights and weekends, etc. etc.. The more you talk the more value for your money you get... so this kind of plan gets people in the habit of using the phone for long stretches of time. Then they're willing to pay more (since they feel like they're getting more!), and the usage habits transfer to the standard metered hours.

    But now think about a nascent online service. What's bad for a basic, necessary service like phone is HORRIBLE for brand-new, NON-commodity service. An online service needs to do everything it can to encourage you to use it more, to use it all the time, to incorporate it into your life. That's where the money will eventually come from -- people who feel they're getting a lot of value out of it. Nickel-and-diming you to death (and anything that gives you that feeling -- no matter how cheap it is in the end) is the exact opposite of what they need to do.

    I haven't thought this through far enough to figure out the ideal alternative -- maybe cheap year-long (unlimited) subscriptions to networks of sites? -- but I feel like micropayments will always give me a bad feeling.