Slashdot Mirror
Help Beta Test Slashdot CSS
After almost 8 years, Slashdot's HTML is finally getting an overhaul. For now the changes are almost entirely under the hood, as we migrate the current skin to CSS. Slashdot itself will migrate in the next few weeks, but for now, we'd appreciate it if people who understand CSS could take a look at Slashcode. If you use a browser that lets you select a stylesheet, you can take a look at that site with the Slashdot CSS Skin. Keep in mind that Slashcode doesn't look exactly like Slashdot, so there will be some differences between that site, and the final version that will appear on Slashdot. We're mainly looking for feedback on compatibility issues and blatant bugs. You can use our our SF bug tracker to submit bug reports. Thanks for your help. Once we move Slashdot, work will begin on a new look & feel. If you have ideas, you could start playing with the CSS stylesheets now!
After almost 8 years, Slashdot's HTML is finally getting an overhaul.
What is a HTML?
If you do change to CSS beware as some CSS is IE specific, like list trees.
Just about every site remodel has problems. I have just gone over the list of things I have issues with on our local public school's new website. Most of my comments have to do with broken capabilites. I'm sure that the folks at /. have tested this system in a non-production environment, but things are bound to go wrong at first. The unfortunate thing about my local school district's website has been access. How much of the /. staff resources are going to be committed to the rollout and how soon are problems going to be addressed?
Considering the fact that it took nearly two minutes for the form to arrive makes me think we are in for a bumpy ride!
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
CmdrTaco? I have exactly two words for you.
:-)
This. Rocks.
Kudos on finally bringing Slashcode into the 21st century! The Slashdot style over on Slashcode looks absolutely wonderful, with none of the chunky layout problems that plague Slashdot itself! What I'd love to know is, how much bandwidth are you saving by using CSS? Many of the experiments done to date suggest that you could cut your bandwith usage by 30-50%! Will this update usher in a new era of faster page loading? Inquiring minds want to know!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
for things like collapsing articles to header only and expanding them to full article? (And user options for the initial view)
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
Just curious -- not attacking or anything -- but why HTML 4 as opposed to XHTML 1 Strict? Is it because of the content type issues with a certain browser, strict XML compliance was too difficult, or simply that only purists ever seem to care? ;-)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Slashdot going to CSS? Has hell frozen over!? Windows gone GPL!? What's next?
I'd answer, but I'm too busy trying to catch these damn flying pigs!
Hi, could everyone stop clicking on the link for a minute so I can open it, thanks.
This has already been done, about two years ago. See http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slashdot2/ and particularly http://www.uwplatt.edu/web/webstandards/slashdot.h tml
Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
Um, because:
Of course I know what HTML is. I was trying to be funny (appearently wasted effort). The joke is that HTML is old. For slashdot to only be using HTML makes it old. Something so old that people forgot about it.
Oh nevermind.
Damn,
It's getting cold down here.
- Satan
The hip way to get your IP. No ads, ever.
I tried this and it seems to be kicking out quite a few duplicate stories. Is that normal?
Johnkoerner.com
finally, being as /. is such a tech site, it's about time to bring things into this century. Hell, I rework my site constantly, I still can't believe /. went so long with old/outdated/non-validated code. perhaps it could be a quarterly thing to update things in the future.
bad_outlook
--
Is this vague enough for you?
Who cares? Three main groups:
People with disabilities prefer CSS because it allows them to trivally alter layout and visual presentation in a way that works for them. For example, some people have trouble seeing low-contrast presentations; they can insert their own CSS into a CSS-aware page to make any site readable.
The folks who pay for the bandwidth tend to like CSS because it costs less to serve (properly implemented, that is). CSS separates style from content, so the style can be cached while smaller content pages are tranferred on request. This makes a better end-user experience and costs less to provide.
Developers and designers like CSS because it follows the excellent practice of separating view from data. It's easier for a developer to make changes to the underlying code because they worry less about breaking the view; likewise, a designer can make layout tweaks without affecting other areas of code. Clean separation makes fewer bugs.
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
Here's one explanation, from CmdrTaco's Journal:
"Pudge has been working a lot on that problem. Specifically we've got scripts to fix HTML in all editor & user contributed content spaces. A lot of this is under way already. Old comments are being automatically fixed in the background. HTML in articles from 1998 is being corrected. Scripts are working very hard. And in some cases, tired editors have been re-reading stories from 1998 to correct HTML errors that boggle the mind. None of this is perfect, so don't be to surprised if you find something wonky. Feel free to mail me URLs if you see it. We've got almost 60,000 articles, 900,000 users, and like 13 million comments. There will be mistakes."
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
Allow me to list people who would be denied the goodness of slashdot if you didn't create something that allowed IE to be compatible:
1) People who for some stupid reason or another can only use IE at work and don't have enough control of their PC to install something better.
2) Geeks and nerds who do not fall into the category of computer nerd. There are science geeks, english geeks, political geeks, math geeks, but just because one is a geek about one thing doesn't mean they are geek about computers.
I'm all for scolding IE for not complying to standards, but since MS's philosophy of embrace, extend and extinguish is still in use in IE, don't allow yourself to be extinguished by designing a page that doesn't work around I.E. bugs and cut off major portions of your audience.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Remember: this calculation is based on the number of pages served as of 13 June, 2000. I believe that Slashdot's traffic is much heavier now, but even using this three-year-old figure, the money saved is impressive.
Welcome to 2005.
Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
Add to that the fact that Slashdot is moving to css, Apple using Intel, Apple Shipping 2 Button Mice, Debian 3.1 was released and this year seems to be turning into be the pivotal point for hell to hold the winter olympics.
[alk]
Got it finally: http://greasemonkeyed.com/tag/slashdot
IMarv
Trusting software vendors is no smarter than trus
Yes, it's called Safari.
"The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
I discussed this with a friend some six years ago. The problem with standards like HTML and CSS can be summed up in one word:
MAY
By putting the word may into a standard, you make the standard non-standard. If you can't reliably depend upon CSS to render a dashed line on a border, why do you even provide it? Two completely compliant browsers can give you a different picture, depending on their choice to implement optional components.
There are enough issues with non-compliant browsers that we don't need to build issues into the standards!
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Here we are at the apocalypse, and we still never got to play Duke Nukem Forever.
Yeah, I went there.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Absolute nonsense. I implement sites for major commercial organisations which use standards-based CSS 1 and 2.1, and they work just fine cross-modern-browser - IE-Win, IE-Mac, Opera, Firefox, Safari, you name it. And when I say "just fine", I mean "look identical to the pixel", as well as scaling seamlessly for visually impaired users, being fully accessible to assistive technologies, having semantically pure markup and degrading gracefully in ye olde browsers.
On my current project I combine floating, absolute positioning and just about every other CSS technique in the book, and out of 1800+ lines of CSS across the entire site, just 13 are to cater for IE's brokenness.
Everything one needs to know to make standards-compliant sites that work in today's browsers is out there (including avoiding the IE-5-Win box model problem), but many "web designers" are so lacking in an understanding of the technologies with which they work that they can't or won't improve. I see new sites produced using nested tables, for goodness sake; I used those techniques myself last century when there was no alternative, but these people really need to get with the programme.
It's the same problem that leads to so many useless implementations in any field: the vast majority of people are unwilling to undertake a process of constantly improving and refining their skills, and the employers aren't sufficiently well-informed to make the distinction between those who work hard to make the best possible use of the available technologies, and those who read a book about HTML in 1997 and have been marking time ever since.
Luckily things are now changing, and clueful organisations are demanding people who can work with standards. A lot of people who think they understand how to produce a web page are going to be looking for alternative employment over the next year or so unless they catch up on the advances made over the last few years.
</rant>Thank you for listening; have a nice day :-)
Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
Taken from A List Apart:
"Perhaps the biggest benefit of this particular example is the bandwidth savings:
* Savings per page without caching the CSS file: ~2KB per request
* Savings per page with caching the CSS file: ~9KB per request
Though a few KB doesn't sound like a lot of bandwidth, let's add it up. Slashdot's FAQ, last updated 13 June 2000, states that they serve 50 million pages in a month. When you break down the figures, that's ~1,612,900 pages per day or ~18 pages per second. Bandwidth savings are as follows:
* Savings per day without caching the CSS files: ~3.15 GB bandwidth
* Savings per day with caching the CSS files: ~14 GB bandwidth
Most Slashdot visitors would have the CSS file cached, so we could ballpark the daily savings at ~10 GB bandwidth. A high volume of bandwidth from an ISP could be anywhere from $1 - $5 cost per GB of transfer, but let's calculate it at $1 per GB for an entire year. For this example, the total yearly savings for Slashdot would be: $3,650 USD!
Remember: this calculation is based on the number of pages served as of 13 June, 2000. I believe that Slashdot's traffic is much heavier now, but even using this three-year-old figure, the money saved is impressive."
Using the layout as slashcode, it seems that the font is specified to be Serif everywhere... I much prefer to read on-screen stuff with a sans font, which is my default. Please dont specify the font and just use my browser's default... Please remove "font-family: serif;" from the body{}
Thank you,
Tester
But I think there is a point somewhere in there to be made. Remember HTML 1.0? Simply the fact that tags like STRONG, H1-H6, and ADDRESS exists points pretty clearly to the intent to allow a site to describe what was being presented but allow the browser to determine how it was presented. Of course, there were a load of problems with this and people's ideas of how it should be used, and we like to think we've come a long way. But in truth, we're still doing the same things.
Rather than trying to be the control-freak with everything exactly positioned, it's far more useful (and elegant to program) to have a site which can do without X, Y, or Z and still convey all the information it did before. A site that degrades gracefully may not impress the casual user, but the casual user will be able to use it.
Look at the most successful commercial sites out there today. Google's front page and search results are viewable in every possible browser I can come up with. eBay is one of the ugliest sites in existence, but its content is available to nearly any browser. Hit amazon.com with Lynx and you can still buy things.
Successful web sites are not pretty. They're functional. CSS is a tool to make more functional pages. Yes, you can also make them prettier, but if you set out with that as your goal, you'll fail the more important one.