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How Much Money do Programmers Really Make?
bigman2003 asks: "ADTmag.com recently released a list of average salaries for IT workers. Usually when I see these lists, I find out that I am grossly below the average salary. But this time I was very surprised to see that I am actually above the average! This is partly because of a recent raise, but it is also because the numbers quoted in this survey are lower than what I've seen the past from other surveys. This report quotes about $56,000 for the average application developer. I am a web developer (sure, laugh all you want) and I wanted to know specifically: How much are other web developers were making? And- How many hours a week does it take you to make it?"
I'm the entire IT dept. at work. I do it all. Planning, repairs, security, network maint, application support, etc. We have 85 trucks around the nation all tied in with GPS and email. I manage and support the whole damn thing.
I have 25 users and 1 server. When trying to figure out what my salary should be, they never have an entry called "dumbass who takes a job as the entire IT dept."
Does anyone have any idea what someone like that should be making?
The other problem is that a lot of tech workers don't exactly have set guidelines on what their job requires.
Take my job for instance:
Web CRM Developer/Maintainer (for in house use)
Low-mid level IT Support
Satellite network diagnostics and maintenance
Field work (roughly one week every two months)
Web development
My job title: Jr. Software Engineer (note the lovely "Jr.")
My pay: not enough - but how much should I make? The same as a CRM Developer/Maintainer (I wish), the same as a low level help desk employee (it'd be a raise)?
outsourcing in costa rica:
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well people do not really have their programming needds done here
but as a sysadmin (windows) you can make $1500 a month
as unix/networking/firewalls I made around $2500 3 years ago
i dunno about programming in general at companies, I did some smaller programming things (mostly php + SQL) on a $50/hour basis (that makes it 8*50*20*12 = $96.000) but I gues sitting in a cube and sometimes coding some crap for someone fro a few days is a different story
besides in costa rica you can make a comfortable living on $1500 a month - including a maid so you do not sink in your own filth (I guess danger of IT workers's homes - at least sysadmins I know )
I'm American so when I first got here I got a job teaching English. After 8 months of kids trying to stick their fingers up my ass (it's called "kancho") I decided to get back into design/lite programming/project management. Before I left the US in 2004 I was probably make about $50k/year living in the upper midwest. Pretty good dosh for the area and I was probably working an everage of 2-3 weeks a month.
So getting back to Tokyo, having pretty rough Japanese skills made it tough to find a job, but I finally found my current gig. Basically I'm the technology guy. My title is Director of Internet Development and project management. Sweet huh? Basically I'm making a dynamic catalogue site using PHP and Flash as well as setting up a server and internal network.
How much do I make? About the equivalent of $30,000 US. Basically I'm going into the local convient store at the end of the month with a bag full of 1¥ coins to buy some food. It sucks ass. This is pretty standard for my age, 28, in Japan though. It's assumed that since everyone lives with their parents they don't need to make as much money when they're younger. I got an interview next Monday though, so now that I can speak Japanese I expect to make a better salary.
Tea and kung-fu. Life is good. Rising Phoenix
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I think developer jobs in the US have been riding a huge bubble for a long time, and will need to fall drastically to compete with overseas programmers. Supply and demand and all that.
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Only to the extent that a country is limited to the field of computing. If wages fall drastically in one field, workers simply shift into another field. Who is going to work for 30K/yr as a computer scientist when they can make 100K as a ________ (fill in the blank with your own 2nd job preference: biologist, real estate agent, small business owner, beach bum, etc)?
Based on my own personal experiences, I would say that market demand is strong and supply is low. The outsourcing hysteria has already driven computer science enrollment into the dirt. Even schools like MIT and CIT have reported a 40+% drop in CS students. My own school went from 1200 to 800 CS students last year. Appx 90% of whom were undergrads and US citizens (which matters because the defense companies are literally tripping over each other trying to hire CS grads who can obtain a clearance).
I haven't heard the enrollment numbers for this semester yet, but I know that at least 10 additional classes were cancelled due to low enrollment.
And how would I characterize the job market in the area (S CA)? Actually, I would say that it is pretty healthy. Healthiest that I've seen since 2001.
- I was at Unix users group meeting the other night and five people had job announcements.
- One of our competitors has been offering 10K and 15K signing bonuses to our employees.
- We can't fill two entry level positions!
- A recruiter called me out of the blue two weeks ago.
The demand is there - it will be until we are no longer dependent on humans designing and implementing programs, doing research, administering systems, etc.
Given the drastically reduced supply of computer science graduates, the always depressingly low number of US MS and PHD students in CS (personally, I blame sports and MTV), and the healthy demand for GOOD computer scientists, I would say that wages in computer science related jobs are probably going to increase substantially over the next decade.
Also, if there is any bubble around, it is called 'outsourcing', which has been a very hit and miss ordeal for many companies. Everyone knows that companies are reluctant to report a security breach. They're just as reluctant to report an outsourcing failure, if not more so. How do you make the following sound nice... 'Well, first, we laid off 100 people to try and save 500k a year. Then the outsourcing company stole 200k from us. Finally, a disgruntled former employee put most of our source code on the internet. Now we're 2 years behind our competition, who was 2 years behind us last year, and all of our GOOD former employees have already found jobs with other companies.'