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John Romero Back In The Game

Gamespot reports that John Romero, the well known former id software designer, has opened his own development studio for the first time in several years. From the article: "Romero and Midway parted ways after just two years. He had been hired, along with former Ion Storm colleague Tom Hall, in October, 2003. His departure in July of this year was amicable on the surface, but chatter among industry wags suggested the Midway brass weren't entirely impressed with the work Romero and his team produced. At the time of his departure, Romero and Hall were working on the still-unreleased action role-playing game Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows."

47 comments

  1. Romero by Tomchu · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm thinking maybe he spent too much time shampooing and combing his lustrous mane rather than coding. Then again Commander Keen *did* own.

    --
    I used to think Linux was cool -- then I turned 14.
    1. Re:Romero by Doctor+Ian · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unfortunaetly he chopped off the hair a while back. Now he is trim! The restless nights wondering what it would feel like to brush against his soft tendrils are no more ;_;

      --
      Trust me, I'm a doctor.
    2. Re:Romero by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Actually that was a long time ago, now he has long hair again.

    3. Re:Romero by YowzaTheYuzzum · · Score: 1

      Then again Commander Keen *does* own.

      There, I fixed it for you.

  2. Daikatana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the biggest disappointment in my life so far

    1. Re:Daikatana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Biggest disappointment? That implies you had high expectations.

    2. Re:Daikatana by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      Suck it down er... up

    3. Re:Daikatana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I played it a little while after it came out. I had heard all the talk about what a piece of crap the game was and felt compelled to check it out with a it can't be that bad - even for just another generic fps.

      Oh how it sucked.

      I was absolutely shocked at what a bad game it was.

    4. Re:Daikatana by Tessu · · Score: 2, Funny
      From TFA:
      As for details on what Romero is up to in his new Northern California digs, the designer was vague, saying only, "When news of my new game somehow gets out, I think everyone will be a bit shocked."
      My money is on this being Daikatana II...
  3. Ego the size of a planet... by Godeke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There was a time I thought Romero was interesting: before I actually learned anything about him and just knew he was part of ID. Talk about letting a little success go to your head... he's like a warning label for the entire concept of ego overtaking your rational thought processes.

    --
    Sig under construction since 1998.
    1. Re:Ego the size of a planet... by RealityMogul · · Score: 4, Funny

      Unfortunately, people keep feeding that ego too. Look at his forums. There's a user with the name of JohnRomeroWorshiper. Of course, that could just be Romero himself.

    2. Re:Ego the size of a planet... by Jim+Hall · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There was a time I thought Romero was interesting: before I actually learned anything about him and just knew he was part of ID. Talk about letting a little success go to your head... he's like a warning label for the entire concept of ego overtaking your rational thought processes.

      No kidding! I just finished reading Masters of Doom and didn't realize until then how much of a prick John Romero really was. For those who haven't read the book - it's a "rise and fall of Id Software" book. It's interesting that after DOOM was released, Romero clearly became more interested in playing games than writing them. He pretty much left all the game-writing to John Carmack. The book spells out how Romero was a better programmer in the beginning, but Carmack quickly surpassed him and left Romero behind. Pretty much because Romero lost focus.

      These days, Romero is a big hype machine. Diakatana, anyone? Ha ha ha ha!

    3. Re:Ego the size of a planet... by 706GL · · Score: 1

      When your ego gets large enough it can become self sustaining. From then on you don't really need others, your ego just feeds itself. It's a self sustaining system, kinda like in nature with those lizards in Arizona that eliminated the need for male lizards to reproduce. No not really, never mind.

      --
      ...
    4. Re:Ego the size of a planet... by fistfullast33l · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah that book definitely sealed Romero's fate in the minds of most id fans, IMO. If you didn't know Romero before the book, you definitely knew after that his games were to be avoided. There's a reason why this guy is getting his first studio in "several years." When John enters a room, another whole person enters behind him. Between him and Carmack, the lesson to learn is that the best gamers definitely do not make the best developers. When asked by PC Gamer if he were stranded on a deserted island what one game would he want with him, Carmack's response was, "actually I'd just like a compiler."

    5. Re:Ego the size of a planet... by gerbilclaw · · Score: 0

      Couldnt agree more than when the author called Romero "the company cheerleader". Arf! He's possibly the most overrated name in gaming. He's had literally millions of dollars thrown at him since his iD departure..... and we have Daikatana and Hyperspace Delivery Boy. Kewl! Romero will always take a battering in reviews etc, he's high profile and mainly for the wrong reasons. Charging around preaching things like "Design is law" is like putting your head on the chopping block. Its a nice mantra, but theres only so long you can use it before someone wants to actually see it in action. Still waiting.......

    6. Re:Ego the size of a planet... by Enti · · Score: 1

      Hey, it's not my fault the Church of Romero has declared him to be the second coming of christ...

      I mean, he is... isn't he?

      --
      In these days, bleeps and bloops mean something more
  4. Gauntlet Seven Sorrows? by iainl · · Score: 1

    Is that the one that thought it would be a good idea to use the Gauntlet brand, despite the press demo only ever managing about 6 enemies onscreen at once?

    Well done, Romero. Well done indeed. Really captured the essence, there.

    --
    "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    1. Re:Gauntlet Seven Sorrows? by cafard · · Score: 1

      Well, considering how Doom III captures as well the essence of Doom in regards to enemy quantity, i'd say he's just following a trend...

      --
      This post is awesome.
    2. Re:Gauntlet Seven Sorrows? by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      Ick. I'm sorry - why do developers even bother with that kind of crap? Here's a hint - if the gameplay is slow enough that I ever notice the sexy glint off of your quadremegamapped player-model's nipple shields, then your gameplay is too damn slow and I only noticed 'cause you bored me to tears.

  5. New Slashdot Moderation Feature? by telstar · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is there any way to moderate the developer mentioned in a story "Overrated"?

  6. What I'd like to know is... by analog_line · · Score: 1

    ...what idiot venture capital firm gave him the money to do it, so I can tell everyone I know not to invest in the startups they invest in. Obviously these people are seriously disconnected from reality.

    1. Re:What I'd like to know is... by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Its simple really. He made the VCs his bitch.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  7. Celebrity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just goes to show that just because your name is associated with a well-known and successful product, does not mean you are the REASON for that product's success. Romero was riding the coat-tails of others in the team, but reaped the benefits of fame, fortune and high respect. Too bad really, because it means people have much higher expectations of him, and probably pay him more than he is worth. He'd probably do OK at a regular design job if he didn't have this huge legacy attached to him.

  8. Daikatana - what was all that about? by AccUser · · Score: 1

    Never played Daikatana myself, but i know John Romero got slated for it. Any one like to comment as to why? I mean, what went wrong?

    --

    Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.

    1. Re:Daikatana - what was all that about? by Lisandro · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Gamespot had a great article about the development of Daikatana, and pretty much resumes why the game ended being as bad as it was. Great read.

    2. Re:Daikatana - what was all that about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Despite hpye, Daikatana isn't the worst game ever. It's a sub-standard FPS which was missing a lot of polish, didn't allow you to save until a later patch (instead preferring to use save points), and generally felt like a chore to play.

      One of the problems was that this wasn't just some developer - this was one of the visions behind Id, who split off to form his own studio so that his creative vision could flourish.

      The second problem was that the game kept getting delayed so that they could hypothetically get it right.

      Finally, the game was the victim of a vicious hype campaign - some of it fan generated it, but much of it generated by Ion Storm themselves. There was the "John Romero will make you his bitch" advertisement which, honestly, if the game had been as great as everyone expected, would've been viewed as an eccentric ad by one of the gaming industry's greatest (for, before Daikatana shipped, Romero was one of the industry's greats). Since Daikatana flopped, the advertisement rubbed people the wrong way, as if it were a boast. Imagine if Muhammed Ali's career flopped after he claimed to be the greatest, or if Rickey Henderson went on a streak of 20 times caught stealing after he'd broken the stolen base record and claimed that he was the best.

    3. Re:Daikatana - what was all that about? by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There were three things wring with Daikatana that earned it the reputation it has today.

      First off, you know how they poke fun at Duke Nukem Forever? Well before Duke, there was Daikatana.

      Next, the game was incredibly hyped. Everybody had high hopes for all the whiz-bang new features that it was going to have, and how great it was going to look. It only underdelivered slightly, but there was much too much hype for it to ever live up to, which was compounded by the last point:

      It was so late that it was behind the times both technologically and game concept wise by the time it finally hit the shelves. It looked and played like Hexen, except it came out two years after that in the middle of the first GPU boom.

    4. Re:Daikatana - what was all that about? by keltor · · Score: 1

      Plus you had programmers at Ion Storm making all kinds of comments about how bad the id Engine was and how there were all these math errors and what not ... then Daikatana comes out and it's just nothing special. That's why game developers only need to start hyping when they are close enough that they KNOW their game is rockin'.

    5. Re:Daikatana - what was all that about? by Deathlizard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Daikatana wasn't a bad game, as much as it was trying to do stuff far ahead of it's time, and then over hyped it to the point where it had to reinvent everything about the genre, or it would get blasted by everyone. This is what Duke Nukem Forever is going to be up against. DNF could be a great game if it comes out. DNF could be very fun and compelling, but it's going to get blasted by reviewers because it took so long to make, and should be absolutely flawless for the amount of time it took to make.

      Back to Daikatana. The biggest problem was the Bot characters. The AI for them was completely stupid, and suffered many problems.
      1) They suffered from "Natalia Syndrome" and would tend to run off on their own and get killed (which was bad, since you'd die when they did.)
      2) They also had friendly fire on the bots, so when they would lag behind you and they saw something move, they would almost always shoot you in the back.
      3) You never could "leave your buddy superfly" or Keiko when it came to the next part of the stage. This was just a pain. especially when half of the time they couldn't navigate the complex world.
      Nowadays, you see much more complex AI work seamlessly with the player, and in many cases, you see what Daikatana was trying to do in more modern games (HL2 and the freedom fighter squads you can control is a good example), although still not as extreme to the point that one person dies and it's game over time.

      Graphically, it's wasn't so bad. It looked ok, but it was no Half Life or Quake II, which came out around the same time or earlier. It however took a bold move and did all of the cut scenes as real time rendered scenes; something that You really didn't see much at that time, but see almost all the time today.

      Storyline, wasn't bad. It could have been better, especially in the naming dept.

      gameplay bucked a lot of the FPS norms. Weapons were interesting, especially the Daikatana, which leveled and got more powerful as you killed stuff with it. Kinda like the soulcube in doom III but more complex. You actually got levels and could apply them to attributes like speed, vitality, ETC.

      Price was the best thing about this game. I think I paid $0.99 for the thing. It was definitely worth that price.

    6. Re:Daikatana - what was all that about? by PhoenixOne · · Score: 2, Funny

      Here's the gameplay. Start will a god-awful cutscene that is way too long. Then get killed by mosquitoes and frogs a few times. No, I'm not kidding, you have to shoot frogs and mosquitoes that are so poorly textured that you'll mistake them for the background. If you miss a frog, it will touch you and you'll explode (Why? No Idea.) Then you take the CD out of your computer, nail it to a wall, and rock back-and-forth with your eyes closed until they stop bleeding.

      --
      Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
  9. Keen 3D! by metamatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Am I the only one who thinks "Commander Keen: 3D" would make a good comeback title?

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    1. Re:Keen 3D! by Xarius · · Score: 1

      Drop the "3D" and I'd be inclined to agree with you.

      </nostalgic luddite>

      --
      C17H21NO4
    2. Re:Keen 3D! by YowzaTheYuzzum · · Score: 1

      As much as we'd all love to see The Universe Is Toast, it isn't possible at this stage - iD still owns the rights to Keen, and doesn't seem to want to give them up, regardless of the fact that they aren't using them, and the last Keen game they tried to release was a flop (Commander Keen for Gameboy Color).

  10. What does this mean for Gauntlet? by MilenCent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gauntlet, above all other action RPGish hack-and-slash things, deserves a great update. While Romero may or may not have been capable of it, I don't know if Midway can be trusted to do what's best for the series. Remember, they released the awesome Midway Arcade Treasures with a phoned-in interface and multiple sound bugs, waking up to the public's interest in it only when it *actually sold*.

    What follows is, in my not-so-humble opinion, what the Gauntlet series needs to remain interesting and relevant in its next incarnation.

    * Get rid of some of the sameness that filled the later areas of Legends and Dark Legacy. Hack slash hack slash hack slash. Despite the variety in environment, most of the areas were simply differently-shaped tubes through which the players flowed.
    * Get the hell rid of the lame collection quests from the home versions of those two games; one in the whole game (runestones) is enough. It's Gauntlet, not Banjo-Kazooie! All home versions of the game other than the Dreamcast one ruined the bonus rounds by having them grant only character unlock credits unstead of gold.
    * Put back in all the great gimmicks and concepts from Gauntlet II, with some additional clever multiplayer concepts. (GII was the game that gave us the IT Monster.) I've got some ideas for this, give me a call! (The author of this comment then waits by phone anxiously for several months, then walks away, sad, dejected, but wiser.)
    * Deepen the character development with some hard choices, but don't make it too complicated. This is Gauntlet, not Morrowind. At the same time, it's not Final Fantasy either, so there's no need to putz about with weapon and armor inventories or attempts to put in a "real" story. Gauntlet needs to be kept pure; it's still possible for a hack-and-slash game to do well, if it focuses on what hack-and-slash does best: quick thinking, on-the-fly strategizing, and action action action.
    * Keep the monster count up, and put back in strategic ways of taking out generators early. The key skills of classic Gauntlet players are the ability to shoot generators just as they come on screen (before they have a chance to produce bullet-soaking enemies), and the quick scouting trip to take out generators before they can produce too much. Both of these tactics are possible in L and GL, but not as useful. Aiming is harder because of the 3D nature of the game (even with auto-aim), and
    * And most importantly, LEAVE IN TIMED HEALTH LOSS! The fact that, at home, there was no penalty for waiting around waiting for your turbo meter to fill, directly harmed the game. Notice: ALL the (real) home versions of the original Gauntlet and Gauntlet II have timed health loss, while all the home versions of Legends and Dark Legacy had no such thing.

    It's easy to forget these days just how groundbreaking the original Gauntlets were, and they're still fondly remembered by many people. And damn it, they're still fun to play now, even the home versions of the arcade updates. Midway is sitting on a gold mine here if they can avoid dropping the ball. (Chances of Midway dropping the ball, especially now that original creator Ed Logg is no longer with them: 85%.)

  11. Romero... by CaseM · · Score: 1

    Notorious, but not near as much as this guy!

  12. Didn't he found Ion Storm? by Dogers · · Score: 1

    Didn't he found Ion Storm? The company that brought us the unbelievably good Deus Ex?

    I'm willing to give him another chance. Daikatana was only bad due to its delays and excessive hype, imo..

    --
    I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    1. Re:Didn't he found Ion Storm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mmmmaybe, but Warren Spector was behind Deus Ex.

    2. Re:Didn't he found Ion Storm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Ion Storm was made up of 3 seperate designers, each with their own projects. Romero made Daikatana, Tom Hall made the quirky RPG Anachronox (poorly designed, but well implemented, IMHO), and Warren Spector made the beloved Deus Ex. Not surprisingly, Spector's team was the only one that survived their first release.

      Now, Warren Spector has his own company, while the other two have yet to make a successful game (as mentioned in the summary).

      So, yes, Romero was a founder of Ion Storm, but no, he had nothing to do with Deus Ex.

    3. Re:Didn't he found Ion Storm? by vranash · · Score: 1

      And sadly Tom Hall won't have the chance.

      Romero, skip pouring the 40, and make your next game a success in his memory!

    4. Re:Didn't he found Ion Storm? by vranash · · Score: 1

      I'm a retard, that's JOHN HALL X.X Well anyhow do it in his memory!

    5. Re:Didn't he found Ion Storm? by lorelorn · · Score: 2, Informative
      There were separate Ion Storm studios around the US. As far as I can tell, they never communicated with one another.

      Romero and Hall came out with Storm Over Gift 3, an unbelievably primitive and generally crappy RTS, and followed it with Daikatana, an unbelievably primitive and generally crappy FPS.

      Spector's Ion Storm studio came out with Deus Ex.

      Ion Storm was a company where the company logo meant either shit or sugar, but you had to look for which studio had produced the game.

  13. Daikatana 2 by kinglink · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sweet, Jokes about Duke Nukem Forever are getting old, and look here comes Romero to be the butt of our jokes again!

  14. Is he a coder? by wandazulu · · Score: 1

    Something I never understood about Romero is: What does he actually do? WIth Carmack it's pretty easy, he's the coder's coder. But Romero always had that nebulous title of "designer" which means what, exactly? Does he actually work on the levels, making art, programming rooms, or is he just the idea guy, writing emails and documents?

    1. Re:Is he a coder? by kinglink · · Score: 1

      Apparently after seeing Daikatana and Doom 3 (or Quake 3 which I didn't care for that much but was solid) You can see where each guy exceled during Doom started and where their falling was. (apparently i'd have to Carmacks was hiring Romero, and Romero's was over hyping his shit.)

    2. Re:Is he a coder? by Doctor+Cat · · Score: 1
      I was at Origin's office in New Hampshire when John Romero got hired to work on porting some of the Ultima games to the IBM PC. He kindly gave me copies of all the Apple II games he'd made in the past - he got his start the same way I did, making entire games from scratch, doing all the programming, art, levels, design, and sound effects. Most of his earliest works were done for budget software publishers that sold $5 or $10 game disks in inexpensive packaging.

      After Origin he went to Softdisk, where the other 3 future members of Id Software were also working. Since they put out a monthly "magazine on disk" for the Apple II, he was again doing a lot of small games that could be developed quickly. I suspect everybody did a little bit of everything there too, though there was at least one artist on staff who could do game art for the designer-programmers like Romero and Carmack.

      I think a lot of his difficulties at Ion Storm stemmed from the challenge of moving from low level production jobs like level building and coding into management type work without having prior experience at it. I've had to make that same transition in my career, and believe me it's not easy. He still stayed involved in game design as well. I hope he can make things work out better in his new venture than he did with Ion Storm - hopefully applying some of what he's learned from past mistakes. He genuinely does have a passion for making games, I could see that even back in 1987 when I first met him.

      --

      Furcadia - A free online game with user created content, DragonSpeak scripting, & more.

  15. I'm King of the Content! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    > At the time of his departure, Romero and Hall
    > were working on the still-unreleased action
    > role-playing game Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows."

    From an earlier interview with him from six months ago: Romero shouted "Content is king!" and pulled aside a hastily-erected curtain, exposing the latest alpha build of Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows on a giant high definition plasma screen. Immediately, an elf with a bow and arrow began shooting at some incoming frogs. "That's what action, adventure, and mystery is all about. Who doesn't want to carefully design their character and equip them, and then be under assault by tiny woodland creatures. Nothing rams the "WOW!" factor home quite like this!"

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  16. Ahh...the man, the myth, the turd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, I've been a game programmer for over a dozen years now. Around 6 years ago, I started a mission: to find Romero at E3, and tell him just how much I thought he sucked, to his face. I patrolled, ever diligent, for years. Nary a sighting of his thick, lustrous, making-me-his-bitch hair.
    And then, one year, it happened. I was over by the Eidos booth, watching the babes (this was the year they were all wearing the blue and white leather racing suits), and talking to one of my buddies that was a PR rep for Eidos at the time. My buddy told me he had to meet with somebody, and that he'd see me later. So I turned to leave.
    Suddenly, the crowds parted. Seriously, this was Heston-style parting of the sea stuff. I was somewhat taken aback by the crazy slow, movie like quality. So there, not twelve feet away, at the other side of the impromptu crowd canyon, was the "man" himself. I couldn't believe my luck. But then it got better.
    Because of the crowd parting thing, I actually started laughing. Pretty hard. In classic form, Mr. Confidence saunters RIGHT UP TO ME, and says, sneeringly, "What are you laughing at?" Sweet Purple Jeebus. My cynicometer went skyrocketing.
    "You, jackass," I said. "I'm laughing because you suck so very, very much." He immediately turned to leave, saying nothing. "Yeah, that's right, suck-boy. Suck on out of here. Sucker" I said as he shuffled off.
    Around 30 people immediately broke into loud applause, and we all had a good laugh.
    Needless to say, I haven't run into him again. Can't wait.