TiVo User's Fears Explored

elrous0 writes "In spite of TiVo's continuing insistence that recent appearances of 'red flag' recordings are mere "glitches," the AP is reporting that customers are beginning to get nervous about the new content-blocking feature added in a recent TiVo upgrade. The story quotes Matt Haughey, of PVRblog.com, as saying 'TiVo would be of limited utility in the future if the studios were allowed to do this with regular broadcast content ... This is like cell-phone jammers. What if you couldn't talk on your cell phone? If customers can't do something with their TiVo that they could in the past, they will stop using it.'" We've touched on this topic in the past.

Comments

All The More Reason

[dringess]

To build your own PVR with MythTV or BeyondTV. It's more work, but you have more control.

Re:All The More Reason

[Dun Malg]

Is it possible to get MythTV running on TiVo hardware?

Nope. TiVo hardware is a closed, special-purpose device. It happens to use Linux as its OS, but beyond that it bears little resemblance to any commercial off the shelf system.

Re:All The More Reason

[Kevin DeGraaf]

MythTV is great if all you want to do is CAPTURE video. I also want to playback the captured
video __ON MY TV___. TiVo can do this. If you read the MythTV HOWTO and even go down the
path of trying to deploy one of these, you will quickly find that TV output has pretty much
been ignored. What cards really actually work? What driver building hell do I have to go
through to get s-video or composite out to actually work? at a normal NTSC scan rate?

If you have a PVR-350, you just tell Myth to use that card's MPEG2 decoder output. Otherwise, you either convert your video card's VGA output to NTSC composite video using a sub-$100 converter box, or you get a video card whose composite &/or S-Video output(s) "just works". I use a GeForce2 something-or-other and there was exactly zero software work installed -- the POST, kernel boot, and X display all go out over the S-Video connector automagically.

Nice troll, though.

the "noise" defense seems a little weak

[enrico_suave]

noise tripping this flag seems unlikely Other commentary on O'reilly blog

Re:DRM is the issue, not TiVo

[Shamashmuddamiq]

There's also a good article about audio DRM here. It's nice to know that consumers (at least the savvy ones) are already starting to notice that DRM is encroaching on their freedoms.

Re:Well that answers that

[screevo]

Heres some links for good hardware to start with.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16856101111 - I actually use this very one. Comes with some excellent media center software, a remote control, built in stereo Hi-Fi unit (can operate independantly of the rest of the computer). Essentially, you end up with a DVR/Media Center/Hi Fi Stereo unit.
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16856101233 - Intel-based version of above
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16814127987 - Reccomended tuner to the above hardware. I use a cheapy ATI TV Wonder that I've had for a few years anyway

You dont need a high power processor, a ton of RAM, or anything beyond the on-board video, unless you plan on doing things beyond DVRing. I have a bit of experience with this, so drop me a message if you want any furter info.

Re:But why did TiVo implement DRM?

[wiggles]

Copyright law forces them to license functionality from Macrovision, who said they would only license their product to TiVo if they put this functionality in, so to answer your question, copyright law plus contract law says it has to be there. Originally, TiVo said that they would only use it for Video-On-Demand and Pay-Per-View, but a bug popped up last week that put restrictions on some syndicated programming (King of the Hill, Simpsons).
 
More info here.

Re:DRM is the issue, not TiVo-WRONG!

[Nom du Keyboard]

One thing that needs to be really stressed is the fact that people are better off aiming their ire at the content industry, not TiVo. Why? Because copyright holders under US law unfortunately have the ability to dictate things such as "you cannot record this," "you can only watch this one," and "you have 7 days to watch this." Those are legal rights that copyright holders can and have established with distribution partners. Let me clarify this situation.

This sounds so wrong to me. There is no law mandating that TiVo include these features yet. If there was, then every VCR sold would need them too - and all the satellite boxes already sold would be upgraded with it.

TiVo still is the problem. They're doing more to aid the content creation industry than they are for their paying customers. I have yet to hear of any copyright statute in law that says a copyright holder can regulate your use of content after you've purchased it - or received it for free over the air.

LET TIVO KNOW HOW MUCH THIS ANGERS YOU, or you're in line to lose more than this!

Mentioning it to Congress can't hurt either.

Re:That's why I use MythTV

[Surt]

http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeature s

All right, I wasn't too lazy. MythTV does support multiple tuners.

Re:Well that answers that

[LordKronos]

You don't need a few grand to build your own. I started building my own myth box 2 days ago. Got it pretty much fully working last night. I spent $130 on a Hauppauge PVR-350, which has a great quality TV in/out with hardware MPEG encoder/decoder. Since the PVR-350 is doing the tough work, it's a very light load on the CPU. I threw it on an extra P3-450, and live TV (simultaneos record and timeshifted playback) still leaves it about 75-80% idle time.

So you can see the system requirements are very light. If you don't have any old hardware laying around, then even buying some new bottom-of-the-line stuff should do good with this card. Just off the top of my head, $100 each for CPU, motherboard and hard drive, $50 for memory, $30 each for case, CD/DVD drive and a cheap VGA card, plus $130 for the PVR-350, and you are only looking at $570. Actually, if you watch around, you can routinely find 200GB hard drive's for $40-$50 after rebate, so that puts you just over $500....plus your time (whatever you value that at).

I have to plug SageTV...

[boomgopher]

That app works awesome on an old laptop I converted into a PVR - BeyondTV choked hard, and MythTV doesn't support my USB2 MPEG encoder.

Re:Why "fear"

[kannibal_klown]

From what I understand, they signed a usage agreement/contract, and if Tivo violates it, they just sue.

Silly, silly, lad

What do you think the EULA on 99% of the software says:
a) We promise our software will not damage your system or data in a way.
b) We in no way accept responsibility for damage done to your system or data. Install and use at your own risk.

The user agreements are to protect the company's interests, not the user's. The user agreements are to cover their butts, so if something happens they can say "But you accepted the service agreement that says it's alright." Heck, they probably do more to tie the hands of the users instead of the company.

I gaurantee you somewhere in Tivo's agreement (probably somewhere prominent) they say that they reserve the right to modify their services and update their software whenever and however they feel necessary. Almost all service-based products allow for this.

Re:But why did TiVo implement DRM?

[Wesley Felter]

The PPV and VOD broadcasts are encrypted by [Macrovision's] technology.

Mavcrovision and CGMS-A are not encryption, thus you can totally ignore them if you want to. (e.g. most video capture cards ignore that stuff)

Re:DRM is the issue, not TiVo-WRONG!

[monkeydo]

I have yet to hear of any copyright statute in law that says a copyright holder can regulate your use of content after you've purchased it - or received it for free over the air.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but that's exactly what copyright is all about. Title 17 of the US Code tells you what you may or may not do with copyrighted content without the owner's permission. Specifcally, 17 USC 106 states:

The owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;

Yes, there are stautory and judicial exceptions to that exclusivity, but there you go.