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London Tube Dangerous for Technophiles?
TsukiKage writes "Traveling on the London Tube is dangerous these days, it seems - and not because of terrorists. Quick as ever to try and protect against the attack that has just happened, zealous police will detain you at the drop of a hat." From the article: "The next train is scheduled to arrive in a few minutes. As other people drift on to the platform, I sit down against the wall with my rucksack still on my back. I check for messages on my phone, then take out a printout of an article about Wikipedia from inside my jacket and begin to read. The train enters the station. Uniformed police officers appear on the platform and surround me ... They handcuff me, hands behind my back, and take my rucksack out of my sight. They explain that this is for my safety, and that they are acting under the authority of the Terrorism Act."
Terrorism Act = Patriot Act? Its funny, they don't sugar coat it like the US does.
just wonder if I wiped that copy of "The Anarchist's Cookbook" I downloaded in curiosity five years ago from usenet... not to mention the fact that my education and armed forces experience gives me the capability of designing and building timer devices... and of cooking up explosives...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
The presence of a slightly suspicious person shuts down a train for a few hours? It seems that an organized civil disobedience effort could keep the entire London tube system offfline indefinitely by wearing backpacks and using cell phones in carefully chosen stations and times. How long could that go on before someone realizes it's not preventing terrorism and it's more trouble than it's worth for everyone?
Or maybe you could realize that most liberals don't hate America, they just want to make it better. You can't make things better unless you look at what's wrong. It also helps to look at what other countries are doing that is working better. Despite the success the Bush Administration and Fox News have had in turning 'liberal' into some sort of insult, most of them are pretty reasonable people.
Britain is in over-reaction mode, just as the US was after 9/11. Unfortunate, but not suprising. They may get a bit more carried away since they are lacking some of the guarantees our constitution provides, but that doesn't negate other things that they're doing well. Spazzing out as though it did is just silly.
This should just serve to illustrate how important our civil liberties are, especially in times of crisis. This is why the patriot act was and still is a mistake. Further, the U.S. government is never above criticism. That is our right and our duty as citizens. During wartime, the government should be held to higher standards, not lower ones.
Don't know why Mr. May had such a hard time of it. Sounds more like an abberation than a trend, and it's impossible to contruct a trend line from a single point of data.
Crow T. Trollbot
Having said all that, the man shot at Stockwell was plainly murdered in cold blood, and I believe charges should be brought.
ObDisclosure: I'm a Londoner (born), grew up elsewhere, spent my 20s there until moving away after 9/11. (A month before 911 I was working next to the Nat West tower... and I frankly admit that the WMD stories were frightening me. Still do, as a matter of fact; it's only a matter of time before amateur WMD of some sort kills 5, 6 or 7 figure numbers of people somewhere in Europe or the USA.
PS final note - I was once jumped by the Special Patrol Group (wrong place/time), forced to lie on the ground with cuffs on, searched, briefly questioned and released. At the end they filled in a couple of forms & handed me reciepts, they explained that these were so that -they-, the police, could be identified if I wanted to complain about them; that the record of the stop & search would stay on file for six months, and would be destroyed after that. Assuming that this was accurate (which I think is probable) I think that's the way it should be. I now have a rather sensitive job; I'm not security cleared but others I work with are, and I may have to be formally vetted / sign the Official Secrets Act at some point. I don't expect the search incident to cause any problems with that. However, I've just realised I'd better post this anonymously...
Very interesting. I've never heard someone quite put it in those terms, but I think you've got it right on. Blind trust of authorities really does stem from fear and thus cowardice.
AccountKiller
well at least they gave him a lot of good reasons! In the US they would never explain why you're being arrested unless you happen to meet an extra nice officer, otherwise you'd be waiting to hear why from your attorney.
They do have some good reasons:
--they found my behaviour suspicious from direct observation and then from watching me on the CCTV system;
--I went into the station without looking at the police officers at the entrance or by the gates;
--two other men entered the station at about the same time as me;
--I am wearing a jacket "too warm for the season";
--I am carrying a bulky rucksack, and kept my rucksack with me at all times;
--I looked at people coming on the platform;
--I played with my phone and then took a paper from inside my jacket.
think they left out "you're a male" and "you're between the ages 18 to 40" though.
However I think the rest of what happens is absurd. Here's the quick run down:
--they inspect all his stuff
--they take him to the police station and book him (fingerprints, photos, DNA, etc)
--they put him in a cell for hours
--they search his apartment (WTF??) and take all his computer equipment (!!!!), private photos, address books, and other stuff they dont even know about
--he's questioned for hours and released nearly 24 hours after first being arrested (!!) AND THEY KEEP HIS CELLPHONE!
This should have stopped after the inspected his bag AT THE STATION and realized there was no bomb.
Good thing i live in the US.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone