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NSF Reports No Geek Shortage

Baldrson writes "The NSF's report titled 'Graduate Enrollment in Science and Engineering Programs Up in 2003, But Declines for First-Time Foreign Students' (a pdf of the report released for the first time last month) is now available online. In an analysis of the report, Edwin S. Rubenstein of ESR Research states of these latest figures: '4.2 percent of science and engineering PhDs work outside their field of training, chiefly for financial reasons. This further weakens corporate America's claim of a shortage of high-tech workers.'" Interesting to see how things have changed since then.

8 of 233 comments (clear)

  1. Not a shortage of high-tech workers... by RentonSentinel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think corporations really complained about a shortage of high-tech workers.

    It was *cheap* high-tech workers that they said were in short supply...

    1. Re:Not a shortage of high-tech workers... by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think corporations really complained about a shortage of high-tech workers.

      Big companies like Intel, MS, and HP have been claiming there is a "shortage" for years, even during the depths of the tech recession of 2001-2004. Yet many of them have been implementing hiring freezes and other staff-reducing measures.

      As somebody pointed out, MS almost exclusively hires only graduates. If there was a "shortage", shouldn't they expand their hiring to older workers? They just want to keep being picky, that is why they lobby for visa workers and more access to India. Young people without families work longer hours. And, they get "A" workers at "C" prices.

    2. Re:Not a shortage of high-tech workers... by slashdotnickname · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And, they get "A" workers at "C" prices.
      That's a bit of an exaggeration.

      As smart and skilled as young tech workers might be, they don't have the experience yet of working in a team environment on large projects. Anyone that's ever worked in such environments knows the value of experienced members, in terms of keeping the goals focused and the lines of communication properly flowing. Schools cannot fully teach experience, and experience is a big component of what I'd call an "A" worker.

      Plus, with starting salaries averaging higher than public school teachers or police officers... calling them "C" salaries is stretching it a bit.

    3. Re:Not a shortage of high-tech workers... by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As smart and skilled as young tech workers might be, they don't have the experience yet of working in a team environment on large projects.

      For whatever reason, many companies don't really value experience. Managers view it like factory work: "Can they put the peg into the hole when needed?" Or "Do they know JavaFoo++ and have a cert?"

      Plus, with starting salaries averaging higher than public school teachers or police officers... calling them "C" salaries is stretching it a bit.

      But technology careers are more volatile. When the economy goes bad, the demand for cops is even higher because idle people get into more trouble. And teachers have the protection of government policies and unions. Further, they get the summer off , have longer holiday periods, have good benefits and retirement packages. Teaching is usally more cushy and stable in comparison. And, cops don't need a college degree. Tech is a grind with Dilbertian bosses with limited upward mobility.

  2. Dunno about the States... by pickyouupatnine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In Canada atleast, it doesn't feel like there's any shortage in tech workers. The salaries for new graduates keeps going down each year - eventhough the cost of living and the cost of education keeps going up every year.

    ... Despite this, the government insists that there is a shortage and wants to increase the number of people immigrating as tech workers - when all they really want is a bunch of smart intelligent engineers to move to this country and procede on to fill the void in factory and walmart jobs.

    --
    _Vishal www.squad9.com
  3. Switching fields may prove the shortage by John+Hawks · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Personally, I know many people in my field of science who are doing other things because of the lack of academic jobs. Big pharmaceuticals and other corporations can use people with graduate degrees in almost any kind of science, because they have the statistical and/or logical toolkits that can be applied to other work. So these folks would be counted as doing work "outside their field of training", and are doing so because of "greater financial opportunities".

    If anything, though, this doesn't mean there is a shortage of jobs for science and engineering degrees. It means that there are a shortage of people qualified to do trained statistics and problem-solving, and corporations are willing to pay a premium to raid surplus academics to get them.

    --John
  4. Re:Shortage due to Schooling? by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perhaps the shortage of high tech workers is due to the increasing demands for longer periods of schooling - the mandatory masters and doctorates that have replaced the undergraduate degrees of the past.

    Is this because the jobs really require such, or because if a company has access to the entire world's labor, they would hire PhD's to flip burgers if they could pay them what they pay a citizen. In otherwords, it is not a "need" but a possibility that is taken advantage of.

    Normally companies don't do this with citizens because they feel "natives" would get too bored if they are overqualified. However, the perception is that foreign workers won't complain. This may be true because it is better than their alternatives in their native country. Third-world workers are obviously going to be less picky because they grew up with less. Plus, if they are picky, they can be replaced because there are 6 billion people on the planet. This makes it easier to find somebody willing to be exploited.

  5. "Analysis" is only skin deep by rheinhold · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find this "analysis" superficial and self-serving. A vocal segment of the high-tech community, including, evidently, the author of this piece, is protectionist and consistently opposes higher visa limits for foreign workers. I, personally, think this is short-sighted; I think continued immigration of the best and brightest from the rest of the world is a positive for the US. But that's not what I'm criticizing in the report.

    The author attempts to argue that American students are becoming more interested in engineering, and that foreign students are less so, based on the enrollment numbers into US graduate programs, and thus we don't need more foreign workers. From my experience as a professor, I offer an alternate explanation:

    • More US students are entering graduate programs because the economy is poor and thus students with bachelors in engineering degrees find graduate study more attractive because finding jobs is difficult. This was certainly true in 2003.
    • Fewer foreign students are entering US graduate programs because it has become markedly more difficult to get US student visas since 9/11. This trend is of grave concern to US universities (and it should be of equal concern to the technology community); instead the best students from other countries are staying home or going to other nations for graduate study.

    I feel this "analysis" is far from objective; the Hudson Institute, a far-right think tank, evidently has quite the axe to grind with immigration (just as they do with Social Security and organic foods).