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From TR-1 to iPod mini

karvind writes "BBC is running an interesting scoop on first transistor radio which has fair resemblance to iPod mini. The Regency TR-1 transistor radio, made in 1954, had a decent claim to be a genuine piece of innovation, however. It was, by popular agreement, the world's first commercially sold transistor pocket radio. Incidently technology watcher John Ousby realised the modern day parallels and matched photos of the transistor with photos of the iPod mini. The similarity between the two has 'created quite a stir' particularly in the Mac community."

15 of 195 comments (clear)

  1. Not as many problems, though... by Donniedarkness · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Hey, this one doesn't have a screen to scratch!

    Seriously, though...is it not possible that the iPod was developed w/o Apple having any knowledge of this? It's not like this is some mega-complicated design... it's a small, sqaure MP3 player.

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    1. Re:Not as many problems, though... by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ..is it not possible that the iPod was developed w/o Apple having any knowledge of this?

      No, not likely. They've been seeing electronic gear in a box with a dial on it all of their lives. In fact, just about every electronic piece of equipment I own is some sort of box with some sort of dial on it. The "dial" on my VCR is even a "click wheel."

      Who woulda thunk that a thing in a box would look vaguely like a thing in a box. The TR-1 itself looked rather like a table radio except for its size and standing long side up to slip in a pocket, instead of long side down to rest on a table. Form followed function, and the form was largely determined by the fact the case was predominantely a speaker enclosure (plus battery box).

      It's not like this is some mega-complicated design... it's a small, sqaure MP3 player.

      And honestly, if you saw them side by side you wouldn't think they looked any more similar than a table radio and the TR-1. For starters there's about the same proportinal difference in size. The photo of the TR-1 in the story is about life size. Rather noticably larger than a pack of cigarettes, including (which doesn't show in the photo) thickness.

      If you put these two devices next to each other with a modern, slim, pocket calculator you'd think the iPod looked far more like the calculator than the radio.

      Perhaps the author is reacting to the entirely overhyped nonsense about the iPod's design "innovation." The reason it took so much work to do the "design" of the iPod was specifically because it's just a project box. You just go try and make a project box unique. It's just a bloody box.

      Apple managed to do this. When you see an iPod a block away you know it's an iPod. Period. From a block away it bears absolutely no resemblence to the TR-1. Up close the iPod has "fondalability." The TR-1 does not.

      This, however, is not technical innovation. It is marketing, and it is marketing again that has given people the idea that the marketing is itself innovation in the device.

      It's just a pocket radio. What do you want it to look like, a bunny or something?

      KFG

  2. So what? by Grench · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're both small, come in different colours, and have a wheel-driven interface.

    So does lipstick.

    And radio-controlled toy cars.

    Really, if "BUT LOOK AT THE SIMILARITIES!" posts were made for every new product, we'd never get anything done.

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    1. Re:So what? by Jamu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really, if "BUT LOOK AT THE SIMILARITIES!" posts were made for every new product, we'd never get anything done.

      I'm reminded of our current patent system.

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    2. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Come on, at least make valid comparisons. How about "They're both small, come in different colors, have a wheel-driven interface, and let you listen to music". The last part being a critical piece you conveniently ignored.

      I happen to understand that for the most part everything comes from something else. Inspiration is all over the place in nature. I think the point is to knock the Apple "I'm so cool" morons down a peg. Apple isn't any more original than anyone else, you're not better because you paid more, and Apple does not make superior quality components (eg. scratches, broken Macs, etc.). They just have fancy expensive packaging.

    3. Re:So what? by tgibbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A pocket sized form factor, attractive colors, and a large dial to access a large number of choices (many frequencies on the radio, many songs on the iPod). It is hard to know to what extent this is convergent design, constrained by similar goals, and to what extent the former inspired the latter.

    4. Re:So what? by TGK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, no, it shouldn't. I belive the topic of the BBC article was the iPod Mini, not the Nano. Moreover, there is a major difference in the depth of the product.

      That said, the wheel on the radio is simply a different way of looking at a knob. The knob itself, is a clever way of creating a very small and intuitive interface to a linear series of choices (a paradigm leap in and of itself, moving a linear structure to a circular interface).

      Given that, the use of the wheel by Apple isn't so mucy copy-catting, as making the long overdue leap from the radio dial to the play list. Both represent a linear progression of choices, so why not use a similar interface?

      Once that's done, the form factor and hip colors aren't such a big deal. Bright active colors appeal to the youth market while the form factor is a veritable necessity for portable use.

      The real gem of the industrial design that Apple has put into the iPod is the gloss finish, the rounded corners, and the lovely little audio responce from the wheel. It's not so much that the iPod is retro, as it looks like something from a 1960s science fiction movie. iPods look like what the Baby Boomer generation was TOLD the future would look like.

      Given that nothing else they were told about the future panned out, that's fairly appealing.

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  3. Heh? by hungrygrue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I saw this article yesterday and thought it was rather silly. There really isn't much resemblance. They are both rectangular - as are most electronic devices. They both come in multiple colors, but the tr-1 came in many many more colors than the ipod and only the silver really looks similar. That is pretty much where the similarity ends. Nothing on the face of either looks similar at all - The speaker grill on the radio, for instance, the shiny metal dial which looks nothing like the ipod control thingy other than being round.

    1. Re:Heh? by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 5, Insightful
      A little creativity please. The colors that were shown were very similar. The form factors are also similar (the radio was slightly larger), and they were both controlled by a single wheel control. That's a good deal of similarity, though obviously not proof. If you can't see a similarity, I'm guessing you also have a problem with abstract art.

      And I have no idea why the apple crowd is going nuts over this. In fact, if it turned out that Apple did use the TR-1 as an influence, I think that would be incredibly cool. What a great shout-out to the past, modeling the most significant portable music player since the walkman after the one that started them all. How is that not cool?

  4. Maybe if you ignore the first-gen iPod by wikkiewikkie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't the mini just an evolution of the first-generation iPod design? The first-gen looks absolutely nothing like the TR-1 to me.

  5. Design is evolutionary, not revolutionary by saddino · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is hardly surprising. Design has always been an attempt to define the current cultural atmosphere, but the truth is, there are some colors, shapes, patterns that humans covet, and others they don't -- this subset is constantly re-used and re-invented. "Trendiness" is short-lived, and thus design movements are simply a shift from one family of design to another: the result is something that "feels" new but is not. One can see this trend in every consumer product, from sofas, to automobiles, to dresses, to watches, and yes, even to electronic gadgets.

    Just about every "trend" in design today can be found in some form or another existing over the past 100 years (possibly multiple times).

  6. A really interesting comparison... by xtracto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I really doubt an ipod would be usable after 50 years (with a normal day to day use), it would be interesting to see if some of these radios are still usable.

    In some article they stated the radio was like almost US $300 (on today's dollars). But of course I am sure the "Use N' Throw" culture was still not abundant in the USA.

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  7. designed by humans for humans by fermion · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Given that these products are designed by humans who have likely gone to school to learn designs that work, or at least have looked around to see what designs work and what modes are familiar, there is going to be a great similarity in products.

    For instance, almost every handheld product, including music players, are a rectangle. The short is sized to fit across the hand, while the long end is made form a pleasing proportion. This works, is comfortable, and many people already know how to utilize it.

    Second, the wheel is round because that is how many of us know how to control things. This comes from the fact that in pre-digital age many things were controlled by rheostats. Rheostats used rotational motion to control things like radio tuning, volume, and the like. In the case mention, the radio was likely tuned by turning a large gear on the wheel, which turned a rheostat, which adjusted the resistance in a circuit that tuned the radio. Under a piece of clear plastic, which was marked with an indicator line, the frequency numbers were printed so the user might know approximately the tune frequency. This was a great design,as it provided a simple way to make the radio usable, but was probably more a result of expedient. The combination of the need to fit in the hand, and the need to simply and reliably indicate the radio tuning, gave the device in question it's shape and characteristics.

    Over time changes were made. Some mechanisms were added so the rotational motion of the rheostat could be converted to linear motion so a linear indicator might be utilized. Digital electronics made the rheostat obsolete, but since people knew how to turn knobs, the knob motif continued to be used. Which leads to the iPod. It fits in the hand, which gives it the shape. People know how to use knobs to select, and the knob provides a more continuous experience than up and down buttons. So the big circle transforms from the display to the selector, while the display becomes a square LED. The colors are added to differentiate the product in the market, but are expensive to stock. Really, there is not similarity between the radio and the iPod, except that both devices fit in the hand, and the transistor radio perhaps taught us how to use knobs.

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  8. How are two wheels the same as one by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The similarily is noexistant. The TR-1 has seperate wheels for volume and tuning, it's as deep as thirty nanos, and the placement of controls is totaly different. Surely in the past there were radio devices similar in design to the nano given the size and control constraints, but this ain't it.

    Some people have an odd obsession to bring down Apple a few notches whenever they can by whatever means possible, this just continues the tradition.

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  9. 1949? Little Richard didn't record until 1951 by tinrobot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...and those four records went nowhere. He didn't have his first hit until the mid-50's.

    There are many songs from the late 40's that claim to be the first rock and roll song. Those songs include Ike Turner's Rocket 88, Wynonie Harris' Good Rockin' Tonight, and Fats Domino's The Fat Man. None of those cited, however, are Little Richard's.