Giant Squid Caught on Film

How long? by the-amazing-blob · 2005-09-27 14:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

How long until we start catching them and getting them in aquariums?

Re:How long? by mrchaotica · 2005-09-27 14:17 · Score: 4, Interesting

Aren't giant squids one of those animals that lives so deep that it can't survive without really high pressure (too high for an aquarium)?

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:How long? by magarity · 2005-09-27 14:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

lives so deep that it can't survive without really high pressure

Without lungs to collapse is the pressure really an issue? I thought the only thing from a fish's point of view (besides the light level) that changes with pressure was the viscosity.
Re:How long? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-27 14:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

You mean like how humans would do just fine in outer space wearing nothing but a face mask?

No. Pressure is always an issue.
Pressure is only an issue when compression is an issue. Fish don't compress underwater (they don't breathe in gas, only liquids [solutions of oxygen, etc]).

Living in gas versus liquid is different than living in gas versus a vaccuum.

The grandparent already pointed out that lungs make a difference. Humans' lungs would implode underwater, and explode in space. However, liquid cannot be compressed (pressure can change, but volume doesn't change). Since squids have no internal gasses (hence, no lungs) to compress or exapand, water pressure won't make a difference.
Re:How long? by modest+apricot · 2005-09-27 15:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

According to Wikipedia, giant squids don't have swim bladders. Instead, they use ammonia in some way or another.
Re:How long? by 0xB00F · 2005-09-27 16:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

How long before the Japanese start capturing them for "scientific" purposes? You know, like they do with whales?

Ok, you can mod me flaimbait now...
Re:How long? by Cadallin · 2005-09-27 16:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

Actually, yes, for awhile. The primary problem is that we have too many moist mucous membranes that will loose fluid. A face mask, covering ones nose and mouth would let one stay alive in space, even without a suit. However, one's eardrums would burst and one's eyes would boil away and probably burst as well. Add pain to the mixture as you think appropriate.
Arguably, one could make a space suit that was simply a skin tight layer + helmet. The problem with that would be that it would have to be *perfectly* skin tight. I.e. Any gas between the suit and you, and you will be VERY uncomfortable, as the gas makes the suit expand like a balloon. Assuming that was worked out, it would have of number advantages over conventional space suits. The joints would be MUCH more flexible, and less complex, as they wouldn't require complicated pressure equalization systems to allow the joints to move.
Hey, I just thought out how to get around the skintight issue. Cover the human in vaseline, or some other viscous nonvolatile (which means the vaseline wouldn't work very long, depending how much was evaporating through the suit) fluid, to fill in all the empty spaces left by the suit!
So you get a system that is = person + skin tight body suit + nonvolatile fluid + bubble helmet + Air supply. I'm certain it would work, just not sure for how long. The limiting factor is how fast you lose volatiles, but it could easily be made to work as long as the longest spacewalks the US has ever attempted, and would be a hell of a lot lighter, simpler, and cheaper.
Re:How long? by mikeb · 2005-09-27 18:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

Pressure is a BIG issue. Chemistry changes at pressure, reactions go differently.

Divers going below about 90 feet (30 metres) breathing air suffer nitrogen narcosis as dissolved nitrogen in the nerves cause an effect akin to drunkenness or partial anaesthesia.

Because the human breathing response is driven by the absolute partial pressure of carbon dioxide in the bloodstream, not its ratio to oxygen, deep diving means breathing much more air than is needed simply to flush out the apparent elevated level of co2 in the blood - the physiology is tricked by the pressure. Anyone practising emergency surfacing from a deep dive is astonished that they don't need to breath as they rise - you continuously exhale as the gas in the lungs expands (I was taught to sing on the way up) and the breathing response isn't triggered because the detected co2 level keeps falling.

Now this may not affect squid much, it's hard to believe that there are no pressure effects on the chemistry underpinning their biology.
Re:How long? by Floody · 2005-09-27 20:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

Actually, yes, for awhile. The primary problem is that we have too many moist mucous membranes that will loose fluid. A face mask, covering ones nose and mouth would let one stay alive in space, even without a suit. However, one's eardrums would burst and one's eyes would boil away and probably burst as well. Add pain to the mixture as you think appropriate.

That's not the primary problem. The primary problem is that the human brain needs a minimum level of oxygen to operate; that oxygen can only be provided by the respitory system at a rate directly proportional to the o2 pressure in the respirated environment(or "partial pressure" in mixed gas environments, like earth at sealevel). If you decrease pressure, you must likewise increase o2 or risk cognitive failure and rapid blackout (with little-to-no warning either). Now, as with all biology, individuals differ widely, but .... even in a pure o2 environment (which certainly is already required for EVA), anything below about 3psi is dangerous. Lungs are a nice flexible organ, but they aren't capable of withstanding more than a very slight pressure differential without over-expansion and potential embolism occuring.

That means that any environmental suit must maintain the same approximate force upon the wearer as exerted by the wearer's respiration gas pressure. Likewise, in order to prevent circulatory damage, the force needs to be exerted pretty evenly across the entire body. So, in effect, you're talking about a suit that can "squeeze" the wearer evenly at a minimum of three or so lbs/sq inch. Assuming such could be designed, how do you propose one would don such an outfit in a pressurised environment? I don't care how great your lubricant of choice is, I can't imagine someone getting into one of these things in the first place without great physical harm occuring.
Re:How long? by Nicolas+MONNET · 2005-09-27 21:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

"The fact that the average temperature of all space is 4' kelvin is also an issue. "

Nope. In the void there is no convection -- and that's how you lose most heat. In space you only lose it through thermal radiation.
Re:How long? by moonbender · 2005-09-27 22:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

It doesn't sound like it's fun, though: "At NASA's Manned Spacecraft Center (now renamed Johnson Space Center) we had a test subject accidentally exposed to a near vacuum (less than 1 psi) in an incident involving a leaking space suit in a vacuum chamber back in '65. He remained conscious for about 14 seconds, which is about the time it takes for O2 deprived blood to go from the lungs to the brain. The suit probably did not reach a hard vacuum, and we began repressurizing the chamber within 15 seconds. The subject regained consciousness at around 15,000 feet equivalent altitude. The subject later reported that he could feel and hear the air leaking out, and his last conscious memory was of the water on his tongue beginning to boil."

Thanks for the link.

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Re:How long? by JaredOfEuropa · 2005-09-27 23:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

Add to this fact that it's not so much space making you explode it's the air in your lungs pushing out and nothing pushing in. This makes breathing very very hard. You would have to have the air mask at enough pressure to inflate the lungs, but not too much to have them tear the lungs as nothign outside is pushing back.
A modified regulator would take care of the pressure nicely, so that the lungs will fill but not explode. The problem I see is that at such a low pressure, there might not be enough oxygen supplied even when breathing 100% O2.

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If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:How long? by CommieLib · 2005-09-28 02:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

And having the suit change colors in respond to temperature (hot-white, cold, black) would help ameliorate the temperature problem.

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If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.

Titanic Struggle by Quirk · 2005-09-27 14:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

My step Dad, a naval officer (pilot), now retired, saw a whale surface with a giant squid engulfing it's head. The whale breached a couple of times with the giant squid unrelentingly attached, attacking and maybe feeding.

I've read that during WWII giant squid would attack red life boats filled with sailors from sunk ships. Apparently the red colour attracts them.

By all accounts they are extremely aggresive, suggesting they don't see themselves as prey and know no predators.

I think I'll keep my exposure to them second hand.

--
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen

Re:Titanic Struggle by MalachiConstant · 2005-09-27 14:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not that I totally doubt your dad's story, but if a squid surfaced it would die unless maybe it did it very, very slowly. I don't think it would be in much shape to be attacking.
As for them attacking life boats, that's ridiculous. If they were that easy to attract we would have photographed and captured them by now.
Thirdly, giant squid do have natural predators, the aforementioned sperm whales and (according to Wikipedia) the pacific sleeper shark.
They are nasty beasts, though. Take a look at their rotating beaks sometime, or read up on them at the Wikipedia article.
Re:Titanic Struggle by Wazukkithemaster · 2005-09-27 15:05 · Score: 5, Interesting

From my immense pool of knowledgem gathered mostly from years of watching the discovery channel, i have learned that giant squid would not be able to survive at the surface of the ocean. their blood is EXTREMELY thin and thus easily influenced by their surrounding environment. Furthermore, their blood temperature must stay around 10 degrees Celcius and too much variation would cause death. Also, The water pressure that they are used to be subject to is much greater in the depths of the ocean (obviously) than at its surface. That said, its unlikely the stories of giant squid feeding on red lifeboats filled with sailors (and what-not) are unlikely, as for the whale... i'm not sure

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Live according to the Categorical Imperative. If the Categorical Imperative tells you not to live by it... ignore it

Re:It's really too bad... by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · 2005-09-27 14:36 · Score: 2, Interesting

You do know that those things regenerate, right? Please take the tree-hugging shit somewhere else. Now that this species is no longer faceless it stands a much higher chance of getting sympathetic support from non-communist-green humans than it did before.

Chances might not be great now, but when it was a "myth" they were non-existant. Noone in his right mind is going to make sacrifices to protect the existance of a species that has not been proven to exist. At least we know for a fact these buggers are still alive. That's worth whatever sacrifice to that species that the photos necessitated.

--
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump

Now that you mention sperm whales.. by Spy+der+Mann · 2005-09-27 14:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale

There was an episode on Discovery's Animal Face-off about a Giant Squid versus a Sperm Whale: The winner was the sperm whale, which stunned the squid with its sonic emitter, and then ate it whole. Of course, before this, the whale had to swim at a very high speed to get rid of the squid's clawed tentacles (this is why some sperm whales have scars on their heads, because you can't just take off a squid's tentacle, you have to rip it off - ouch).

It was an exciting and interesting episode :)

Re:Skip a beat, eh? by midimastah · 2005-09-27 15:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

Is she anything like this woman?

WARNING... LINK TO SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MATERIAL!!!

http://www.erosblog.com/archives/00000386.htm

I hope this isn't going against some decency thing here on slashdot...

Re:Pictures by dtfinch · 2005-09-27 15:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

It links to a related article "Deep-sea monster caught on tape" which links to the video which they'll prevent you from viewing unless you're running IE6. Having barely skimmed through the 50kb or so of javascript that verifies your browser by dozens of methods, and generates urls to multiple scripts which it loads on the fly which it calls to finally generate the secret url to the video, I'm guessing their motive for blocking other browsers wasn't compatibility related.

Re:WOW. by Ironsides · 2005-09-27 15:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

though I can't imagine there's too many predators that want to tangle with a 40 foot long tentacle monster.

It only takes one, and the squid is dead. That one happens to be sperm whales, maybe other giant squid as well. Possibly even some other large predators we have never found as of yet (or think are extinct).

--
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars

did you know... by Kadmos · 2005-09-27 15:58 · Score: 4, Interesting

Given the ability of squid to join together with other "squids" the potential for the size of these groups (or "caches" as I prefer to call them) of squid is almost limitless! For maximum effeciancy in these groups the squid talk to each other and help each other out. The communication between each squid relies primarily on each squids role in the "cache" and can be anything from a "parent" or "child" squid to "siblings" (please note these relationships no not denote the lineage of family groups, but simply the authoritive role each squid plays). From what I have seen you could be quite close to one of these "caches" right now and not even be aware of it!

It would be tough but possible. by jd · 2005-09-27 16:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

One of the problems with any of the species of giant squid (there are two that are known of) is that they absolutely require a very high pressure to survive. This makes recovery of a live one very difficult. But it could be done.

Start off with a hollow tube. I would suggest a tube about 60' in length (giant squid grow up to 40', and you have to allow time for this to work) and about 10' in diameter. Possibly a bit more. The tube walls need to be somewhere between 10'-20' in thickness and be good-quality steel. Each end needs to have a door that can close and be 100% watertight. Both the door and locking mechanism have to survive pressures of around 400 atmospheres or more. There needs to be a motion detector at each end. If either motion detector registers sustained motion for more than some given length of time, both doors shut the moment motion is no longer detected. (ie: whatever is moving is now fully inside.) You also need to set it that once the doors close, bags on either side are forcibly inflated, so the tube rises to the surface. Once it hits the surface, a radio signals where the tube is.

It's a simple system, the pressure is constant on the inside (so the squid won't be affected) and you could scatter any number of these at the required depth. You then just sit back and wait. Eventually, a squid will be caught. You then tow the tube to the aquarium and lower it into a tank. You then pressurise the tank to 400 atmospheres and open the tube.

(Pressure increases by 1 atmosphere about every 25 feet, so the pressures at 10,000 feet - where Giant Squid roam - will be 400 atmospheres. In practice it may be a little more or a little less, but if you aim for the theoretical pressure, the squid should do just fine.)

This would be implementable by any aquarium (with money) right now. They could have a giant squid within a few months at most, if the tube is baited the way the hooks by these researchers were. There are a few difficulties, though. You'd need 300' thick windows to withstand the pressure. Yes, that's feet. The second problem is that it would be almost impossible to put food into the tank. The third problem is that it would cost a LOT of money to build even one tube, and you'd likely lose most of those you drop into the ocean.

(I'm ignoring the practical difficulties in building a containment system large enough for the squid not to be injured by a high speed impact against the doors when they close, or by impact with the side walls when it tries to turn around.)

--
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)

Kraken by Ironsides · 2005-09-27 16:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'm reminded of the old "tales" that seamen told when they came back from sea. Circa ~1400s, give or take a few centuries. There was a giant seamonst that looked a lot like a giant squid, except it had a beak below the eyes on the outside of it's head. Well, giant squid have a beak, it's just betweent he tentacles instead. Here's a picture of a Kraken. Look familiar?

--
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars

An even bigger species than the Giant Squid... by DesScorp · 2005-09-27 16:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

...is the colossal squid, Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni. Where giant squid are thought to get up to 60 ft long, no one knows just how large the CS can get. Remains of the two species have been compared, and the CS is bigger in just about everything, including the beak. They live only in Antarctic waters (that we know), and the remains of one washed up in the Ross Sea in 2003.

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Life is hard, and the world is cruel

Ummm, no, not EVERY time... by DesScorp · 2005-09-27 16:37 · Score: 3, Interesting

...according to this:

In 1965, a Soviet whaler watched a battle between a squid and a 40 ton sperm whale. In this case neither were victorious. The strangled whale was found floating in the sea with the squid's tentacles wrapped around the whale's throat. The squid's severed head was found in the whale's stomach.

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Life is hard, and the world is cruel

Re:Skip a beat, eh? by Neo-Rio-101 · 2005-09-27 18:20 · Score: 4, Interesting

Although it looks like it on the outside, Japan is not open about sex at all. Otherwise all my Japanese colleagues would be having orgies every second week - but none of them can even get a date. In fact, it's not very open socially much at all. Non-comformity is flattened by society as it ignores anyone loud who dares stick out. Anyone trying to get attention is viewed as an attention whore and is summarily ignored. Anyone who truly NEEDS attention is ignored as well - which is the sad part.

IMHO the whole sex perversion thing is basically due to hordes of men not being able to get laid. Pure and simple. That frustration has got to come out somewhere. The reason they can't get laid is that most of the men are unromantic, selfish, uncaring, and have no respect for women basically. The only reason why foreigners get laid is because they are the exact opposite of Japanese men, and have blonde hair.

The whole octopus thing extends farther back than mere penis censoring. I have seen old Japanese art depicting Japanese women being mauled by octopus. Why octopus, you may ask? I don't know, but since the Japanese eat so much of it I figure "you are what you eat".

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READY.
PRINT ""+-0

Re:WOW. by Bertie · 2005-09-27 21:51 · Score: 4, Interesting

Sperm whales can't get enough of them, apparently. I once saw some utterly incredible TV footage where they'd stuck a camera to the back of a sperm whale in the hope of seeing a giant squid when it went hunting. The camera was designed to pop off once it reached a certain depth so that they could recover it. They didn't find any squid, but the whale behaviour was amazing. There was a whale on either side of the one carrying the camera as they went diving down, and all the way they were chattering away to each other. At one point, they stopped (the depth was displayed in the corner of the screen), had a bit of a discussion, then the whale on the right swam right up to the camera and the screen was filled with whale eye. A few seconds of staring later, they had another chat among themselves and carried on. It seemed pretty obvious to me that the camera-carrier had said "hey, there's something stuck to my back, would you check it out?" and the other whale had a look, said words to the effect of "move on, nothing to see here" and off they went...

My god, is "incurious" the same as "funny"?? by ianscot · 2005-09-28 02:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

Thank god the hunt is over. That was obviously worth the effort.

Ho ho. Imagine a 60-foot-long alien intelligence that's been living in the earth's oceans for millennia -- the source of countless myths and legends -- that escaped direct observation by modern science except in the form of dead specimens.

Cephalopods are cool stuff. Their nerve fibers are unbelievably thick -- used for all sorts of medical research, because you can actually see their axons with the naked eye in some species -- and fast. They don't have true brains, just big accretions of these ultra-thick nerve fibers, but they display many of the classic signs of intelligence. For example, octopuses are very adept problem solvers when hunting, and squid of lots of different species are astonishingly good at using changing skin coloration for camoflage and, seemingly, for communication.

Cool animals. Super big example that nobody's been able to find. It's worth being curious -- worth lots more than posing as too cool to be interested...

--
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.

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