How Can Cybersquatters Be Evicted, Cheaply?

wmshub asks: "Slashdot has covered stories where big mean companies threw poor little people off of web sites with names too close to that of the company. But what about when you are the company and the cybersquatter isn't even using the name? I have a small (ok, basically just me) company. The web site that exactly matches my company name has been registered since 2001, which is before I legally registered my company name but after I started doing business. Despite being registered for 4 years, the site is still nothing but a pile of banner ads - not even a hint as to why they want that particular name for their site. I contacted the owner, but they are not interested in selling (at any price, they said). If I read the ICANN guidelines correctly, domain name owners who have 'no legitimate claim for the name' can be evicted by people who do, so I think I should be able to demand they hand the name over. Has anybody ever tried this, or heard of a case where somebody with very limited funds (ie, not enough money to hire a lawyer) has been able to evict a squatter? Or do you always have to hire a lawyer and pay thousands in court fees to make this happen?"

Comments

Domain name doesn't always equal web site

[josecanuc]

Remember also that a domain name doesn't always mean a web site.

It's just a mapping of text to a number and there are many services that can run on the computer identified by that number.

There is more to the net than the web

[Matt Perry]

There are more services than web sites. They may use their domain name for other services such as mail, DNS, Jabber, IRC, FTP, and so on. They probably decided to put up banner ads to get some revenue from people who hit the page. I have one such domain which handles some mailing lists and nothing more. The server that it is on has a web server for some other domains so I have a page appear with a joke on it when the domain is accessed.

Also, if the domain owner was willing to talk to you and told you that he didn't want to sell, as opposed to asking for a huge amount of money, then I don't see what reason you have to say that they are squating. They have it and want to hold on to it. I really think that if you didn't register the domain name before hand you might just be out of luck.

Re:There is more to the net than the web

[Matt Perry]

I understand your argument, but do you REALLY believe what you're saying?

Yep, 100%. Remember the domain name I was talking about in my original post? I get several offers a year to buy it. I tell people the same thing: "It's in use and it's not for sale." It's not my problem if they think it looks like it's not being used.

He's been squatted, plain and simple.

Yet he's unwilling to sell at any price, according to the submitter. There's no profit motive. Why "squat" on the domain? Maybe he's using it. D'ya think?!

He would be able to help us out if he'd just do a dump of all of the DNS entries for that zone.

You mean provide you with security information for no reason? There's a reason why you can restrict who can initiate zone transfers. When you make that request why not ask him to enable fingerd and provide a list of usernames from /etc/passwd as well.

Bottom line is that he has nothing to prove. He doesn't want to sell. It's his domain. He's doing nothing wrong. He registered the domain before the submitter. End of story.

The real lesson to be learned here is that if you are going to start a company then in addition to investigating company names with the Secretary of State you should also think about a web presence and investigate what domain names are available. A person reading Slashdot should have known that much back in 2001. It's the submitters fault for not getting the domain name he wanted. If he's unhappy about that then he might want to talk to a lawyer that specializes in this type of law rather than submit a question to Slashdot. A lawyer can tell him if he thinks he has a case and let him know how much it would cost to retain him for the job.

Next Ask Slashdot, please.

Re:There is more to the net than the web

[UnrefinedLayman]

There are legitimate cases where some knob bought the domain name just because they wanted to feel better about themselves, and aren't really doing anything with it.

I bought a new flat panel monitor about a year ago. My old CRT monitor is sitting in my closet, on the floor, and hasn't been plugged in in over a year. Is it the right of you, or anyone else, to come into my home and tell me that since I am not putting my property to the use that others have deemed it should be that I must relinquish ownership?

I don't want to answer my own question, but give me a break. There is no such right. My neighbor's Jaguar is hardly ever driven, and just because I'd prefer to take a car to work instead of the bus doesn't mean I can appropriate it for my own use. It's not mine.

Your "A Good Thing" logic is nothing more than second-guessing and is a short ride down the slope to explaining to a committee why you want to withdraw a hundred dollars from the ATM.

Where do you draw the line?

[TheSHAD0W]

So at what point is it a squatter versus a "legitimate" website? If you produce a definition, squatters will simply modify their design to meet the definition, perhaps adding or copying a minimum of information to become "legit". Face it, they've had the domain for longer than you've had your registered name or trademark. You're stuck, so live with it or change your own name.

Trademark your name

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advise.

If you trademark the name (nolo books for help) then you have a legitimate claim to the name and you should be able to get it through the ICANN expedited resolution service.

Re:Trademark your name

[norwoodites]

But you don't have a right as two different people can "own" a name for two different industry so what happens for the internet and ICCAN, well it is a mess.

This is why there are at least three deltas in the world. One for airlines, one for faucets, and one for electronics

Now which one gets delta.com, well the person who registered the name first, in this case Delta airlines.

So maybe the person who register the domain name has the same registered name as the person asking does.

Taking candy from strangers

[KingPrad]

domain name owners who have 'no legitimate claim for the name' can be evicted by people who do

And your legitimate claim is that you want it? That you want it really really bad? I know domain names are very important, but if you have no claim to it other than desire and the owner isn't cybersquatting (even if he is totally wasting it), why do you think you should get it?

I can see good arguments for both sides of this, but using legal pressure to take things away from their owners is disgusting to me. I hate it when the government does it and when people or companies do it. Ownership is [should be] ownership, whether some stranger likes it or not. Taking it is theft, whether you take it physically or through legal manipulation.

CyberClaimJumper

[stonewolf]

I wish I new what the name is. My guess is that you and the other guys both thought of the same name at two different times. They were probably trying to come up with names that were either "cool" or names that are likely to be typed into a browser. In either case they registered the name and loaded it up with adds so that if someone does type in that name they go to that site and look at the adds.

Running web sites with cool names to get advertising revenue is a real business and is a valid use of a domain name. In other words, they have just as much of a right and are just as legitimate as you are. So, why call them cybersquaters? I could just as well, and just as validly, call you a cyberclaimjumper. As far as I can tell you are just trying to rob somebody of a source of income. The only way you could convince me otherwise is to prove that they knew about the name of your company and went and registered it.

My advice is to change the name of your company. Spend some time researching names that are 1) not trademarked, and 2) available as domain names. Then, register the domain name. When you meet the requirements for registering the trademark, then register the trademark.

Stonewolf

Re:CyberClaimJumper

[J'raxis]

The only way you could convince me otherwise is to prove that they knew about the name of your company and went and registered it.

Right, and this what the UDRP calls a "bad-faith" registration, which is one the criteria for yanking someone's domain. A usual red-flag for bad-faith registrations is attempting to sell the domain to the person claiming legitimate ownership, usually at an inflated price -- something that this purported cybersquatter not only didn't do, but he didn't even agree to sell when approached unsolicited.

I'm going to sue, too!

[fmaxwell]

[sarcasm]
This is a great idea! I'll find some web site which has nothing but banner ads. Then I'll start a business with the same name. After I do that, I'll go to court and sue, demanding that the owners of that domain turn it over to me.
[/sarcasm]

Maybe the current domain owners are holding on to the domain in the hopes of one day starting a business in their state/country with that name. Maybe they are ranked well enough search engines that the banner ads are profitable. Whatever the case may be, it's their domain and I don't understand why you think that your business interests should trump theirs.

Face it: You screwed up. You started a business without registering the domain(s) appropriate for that name.

I'm waiting for this to happen

[Solder Fumes]

My domain name is based on my own name, but it also happens to be the exact same name as a Taiwanese company. They currently use the ".com.tw" variant. However, I often get emails to the company, even though my catchall address is blackholed. What's more, I have no visible index page...just a blank white emptiness. But I do use the domain heavily for my own email, my own file storage and web-based services for my family and others. If anyone tried to prove I was cybersquatting, I'm sure that I could prove otherwise. But it would suck to lose the email addresses that I promised to myself and my users would be there in perpetuity regardless of ISP changes.

Squatted domains based on family names?

[TMacPhail]

What about domain names that are based on a last name? I believe there are provisions for claiming a domain based on your name when it is simply being squatted. Has anyone ever had luck with this?

Yes, this is still dependent on defining what it means to simply be squatting and having no legitimate clame to a domain. Take my name for example: MacPhail.

• macphail.net appears to have no legitimate claim to the MacPhail name other than using the domain to host a page filled with links. I am sure there are many other sites owned by the owner of this domain that are the exact same thing. Unfortunately they hide who they are in the whois database by using a company called "Whois IDentity Shield" but the dns servers for the domain give a hint at the real purpose of it: ns1.hitfarm.com, ns2.hitfarm.com. And there is nothing to be found at www.hitfarm.com.
• macphail.com seems to have a use for the name in that it resells e-mail accounts under the domain so you can have your own @macphail.com e-mail. This hardly seems legitimate to me but would probably pass in court because they have made a business of it. This bothers me because they are potentially making a profit from thousands of last names they have no claim to other than having registered the domain first.

Anyone ever been able to get their last name out of the grips of a company like these?

Re:Squatted domains based on family names?

[Acy James Stapp]

Oh, sure I have. The exchange is supposed to take place any day now.

Yours,
John Microsoft

Re:Squatted domains based on family names?

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

macphail.com seems to have a use for the name in that it resells e-mail accounts under the domain so you can have your own @macphail.com e-mail. This hardly seems legitimate to me but would probably pass in court because they have made a business of it. This bothers me because they are potentially making a profit from thousands of last names they have no claim to other than having registered the domain first.

Anyone ever been able to get their last name out of the grips of a company like these?

Whaddaya mean, your last name? You're obviously not the only person named MacPhail, based on the success of macphail.com. Who are you to say that the last name belongs to you and you alone?

Unless you're using your whole name, or you're famous somehow, you don't deserve macphail.com. What the current owner is doing with it is fair - offering relevant services to all MacPhails, including yourself. What could you possibly do with the website or domain name that would be fair to the thousands of other MacPhails?

And if you, T. MacPhail, can take the domain name from the current owner, what's there to stop P.D.Q. MacPhail from taking the domain from you?

How do I steal a domain...

[EzInKy]

...would have been a much better title for this article.


I contacted the owner, but they are not interested in selling (at any price, they said).


The name is theirs and they want to keep it. Why do you think you should be able to take it away from them?

And the converse ....

[khasim]

Dear Ask Slashdot,

I have a website that I've owned for years. Now some guy is trying to take it away from me by claiming it is his business name (non-trademarked).

How can I cheaply defend myself from his actions and keep my domain name?

rights, ownership

[itzdandy]

at what point did the right to own and keep what is yours get voided? if someone ownes something, and then you use the same name(i'm not implying bad intentions), what makes you think you deserve to have something they own? they did own that domain before you had the company name right? you thinking that you have a right or some claim is complete crap and an attempt to take it should be considered attempted theft. the domain is owned and the owner did not violate your trade name or copyright when purchased, that means they OWN THE DOMAIN and you are STUPID and part of the PROBLEM with the american way.

go ahead, mod me down. good karma in the real world is worth bad karma on slashdot

Here's the answer

[InternetVoting]

The World Intellectual Property Organization(WIPO) will handle domain name domain name disputes and arbitration.

Check out there Domain Name Dispute Resolution Service (DNDRS).

You should also consult ICANN's Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy, which is the guidline for WIPO's aritration.

Here's an abbreviated of what you would need to qualify:

• your domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and
• you have no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
• your domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.

Bad faith is:

• circumstances indicating that you have registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain...(extortion)
• you have registered the domain name in order to prevent the owner of the trademark or service mark from reflecting the mark in a corresponding domain name, provided that you have engaged in a pattern of such conduct; or
• you have registered the domain name primarily for the purpose of disrupting the business of a competitor; or
• by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location.

Now since the owner of the domain says he will not sell "at any price," and they probably aren't out to disrupt your business... it seems like your SOL. Hope this is helpful for anyone who has a legitimate dispute and need for arbitration.

Oh, and I know a lot of people are going to say that the whole arbitration process might be out of date as most "squatters" have realized all you have to do is put up one of those "search" tool that serves soley for advertising, and then try to sell the domain for a ridiculous amount of money. Those people are right.

You're sunk, I'd guess

[focitrixilous P]

The web site that exactly matches my company name has been registered since 2001, which is before I legally registered my company

IANAL, but that statement seems to say that you have lost. Because he got it first, before you legally registered your company name, you are probably out of luck.

Re:No TLD mentioned...

[Monoman]

Which brings up the whole issue of missused TLDs. People register whatever they can across the TLDs. The TLD guidelines are not enforced and are a big part of the problem. IIRC the intended uses are

* com - business
* net - internet providers
* org - not for profit (is Slashdot.org a non-profit?)
* edu - education and enforced AFAIK
* mil - military and enforced AFAIK

I frequently look for resources on the edu domain and find it a joy. I can't think of any time finding a missuse. It just works.

IMHO the TLDs uses should be enforced. They should also make use of the country code domains like you often see with tw and uk. Multinationals would then regsiter for a .com if and only if they had the domain in use in multiple country level domains.

just my .02

Duh.

[geminidomino]

You should have put the link in the summary. After a good slashdotting, the squatter would be BEGGING you to take it off his hands!