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P2P Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift

prostoalex writes "New research report (sponsored by the recording industry, so should definitely be objective) suggests that those who download music online are also likely to cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift. From the Globe and Mail: 'Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,' said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls."

16 of 614 comments (clear)

  1. P2P: the new gateway drug. by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This "study" referenced in the TFA is so poisonously misleading I barely know where to begin.

    From TFA:
    Canadians between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more willing than other age groups to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or even shoplift, an Environics poll suggests.
    Regarding the first two statistics, perhaps that because (a) they're the ones to use the software programs the most, and (b), they're the ones in school. Regarding the last point, the actual figures were 6%, as opposed to 2% of the general population. With a poll base of only 2,043 individuals, and an error range of 3.1 percentage points plus or minus, one can seriously question the validity of this last statistic. Add this to the fact that teens have been shoplifting since the invention of the 'shop', and this statistic quickly becomes meaningless.

    What's especially nauseating about this "study" is that it attempts to establish a causual connection between increased P2P file sharing and these other, 'antisocial' activities:

    Again from TFA:
    "Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society," said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls.
    Repeat after me: Correlation does not imply causation.
    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. by Compholio · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Young people 'steal' music, young people steal stuff. Therefore, 'stealing music' (leads to)/(increases the probability of) stealing stuff. Someone should give these people an award, for stupidity.

    2. Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. by bedroll · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They have a defense, though. Read it again, there isn't a single absolute statement made to correlate the two. Everything suggests that these factors correlate. This is the weakest worded article I've read in quite some time. It's apparently meant as flamebait and to sway the weak-minded.

    3. Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. by garcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society," said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls.

      Not only does the RIAA/CRIA harm artists they also have little respect for their own customers which threatens new and interesting music which is at the core of music value!

    4. Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. by assassinator42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Again, correlation does not imply causation. They can't isolate album sales by people who download the music from people who don't. Also, people are more likely to answer in a survey that they download music if they buy the music afterwards.

    5. Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It sounds to me like they are saying that people who do those kinds of things are more likely to file swap

      Actually, it's even worse: assuming the article is correct, it found that the *age group* of people who commit the most piracy are the same *age group* that commits the most shoplifting. I.e., they didn't even find a correlation between piracy and shoplifting, only that "teens are the most likely to commit piracy" (obvious - they use the net the most) and "teens are the most likely to shoplift, although they're not very likely to" (also obvious, and a long historical fact), but *not* that "teens who commit piracy are those who are most likely to shoplift".

      One thing that raises big flags is that if they *did* find a correlation between those who commit piracy and those who shoplift, it wasn't stated. Are we to believe that they didn't bother to check for a correlation after conducting this sort of poll? That stretches credibility. It seems likely, then, that they found *no* correlation, and so simply stated that they're in the same "age group" to try and suggest to readers that there *is* a correlation where there is none.

      --
      So, apart from that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
    6. Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. by Moofie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Getting your morals from a government is like trying to get drinking water from a gas pump.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  2. Other Way Around by Azarael · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe those types of people that are more likely to cheat, etc are drawn to P2P. Classic example of correlation vs causality.

  3. That's not what it says! by program21 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From TFA:
    Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading, even though they make up only 21 per cent of the population, it says.
    ...
    Canadians between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more willing than other age groups to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or even shoplift, an Environics poll suggests.
    What it does say is that people in the same age group as typical P2P users are more likely to shoplift or cheat. It does not make any correlation between P2P users and these things!
    --
    This has been a test. Had this been a real emergency, we would have fled in terror and you would not have been informed.
  4. newsflash! by gigoguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Extra extra! Read all about it! Children likely to have less rigid morality than adults! Children may or may not understand concept of intellectual property! Extra, Extra!

  5. Canadian Content by _am99_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The CRIA is a poorly funded wannabe RIAA that complains about everything. They already have enough supporting laws and programs on the books. And now that there is enough focus on these issues, they are not going to get anymore.

    Canadians are taxed on all blank CDR media to offset the loss of piracy, and since the Canadian content laws under our version of the FCC are the only thing that keeps a lot of crappy Canadian content on the air, and since most of it is funded with our tax dollars, the CRIA can kiss my cold Canadian A*S!

    Many Canadian content providers and distributers shield themselves from real competition thru backwards isolationalist-style trade-restriction-like programs and law.

    Government funding allows tax dollars to be sophened to companies that produce content that usually SUCKS - as along as it meets the "Canadian content" requirements by mentioning curling or the Toronto Maple Leafs.

    At the same time, broadcasters are limited in what they can show because they have to be inline with another set of rules that dictates a percentage limit on the amount of non-Canadian content they can broadcast.

    So we have cable providers that suck, a lot of content that sucks, and it is all subsidized by our own tax dollars.

    All that being said, aside from not being able to get American TV legally, and having the same climate as upstate New York (in Toronto at least), it is still the best place to live in the North America - IMHO.

    With all of this Canada self-bashing, I should point out a couple of examples of Canadian content at its finest. Here are two artists that are proud to be Canadian, and are world class for sure - highly worth checking out:

        1) Esthero - a voice and songwriter like no other
        2) K-os - hip-hop with real instruments, who's quality is unmatched

  6. Sponsored studies by Bullfish · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This all just really goes to show that knowing who sponsored the study is more important often than the results. I took a journalism course once and had an assignment to check out a study about how milk sold in plastic bags went bad faster than in opaque cartons. Thing is, I found that it took a couple of days to go bad, had to be exposed to light (yeah, the fridge light does go out when you shut the door) and only two per cent of the milk sold at the time as sold in these plastic sacks. The study was, however, sponsored by ex-cello who just happen to make - opaque milk cartons.

    A lot of these studies a crap and presented as fact and are not to be taken seriously. They exist to push an organization's viewpoint while deceiving the public as to their true nature.

    Look no further than the tobacco company studies that show nicotine is not addictive. Yeah right, and beer causes cancer in asbestos workers.

  7. Re:Not really a surprise by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem here is that nobody sees the RIAA as breaking the rules. They've managed to break the copyright rules (by which I mean the natural law, not the legislated law) by ensuring that copyright never expires. Copyright is inherently a bargain between the publishers of copyrighted works and the recipients of copyrighted works. The publishers promise to eventually put the work into the public domain, and the recipients promise not to copy. That's copyright *natural* law. Whenever legislated law doesn't match natural law, you see a massive disrespect for legislated law.

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  8. You get the kind of customers you market to by p_conrad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can you really fault a kid for wanting to steal the latest copy Gangsta Rap Knee-Cap? The music glorifies the life of crime, so the would-be customers embrace that ethic by stealing that music. Makes perfect sense to me.

    If the RIAA members want a more mature audience of paying customers, perhaps they should attempt to create a more mature product. Since they obviously aren't going to do that, they should just accept the shrinkage and price accordingly, like every other business in the world.

    My whole life the record companies have been blaming their customers. Home taping was killing music. Bootlegging concerts was killing music, even though there's little interest in official live albums. Now P2P is killing music until the next scapegoat comes along. This is a pretty long swan song, isn't it?

  9. Re:Badly Written by sik0fewl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't know about that.. it's legal to download music in Canada. Maybe they mean that the music is illegal and therefore we should not be downloading it?

    --
    I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
  10. I WOULD believe... Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. by kibbylow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would be more inclined to believe that cheaters and shoplifters are more likely to download copyrighted material.

    However, I'm not sure where the article even talks about P2P users being more likely to cheat or shoplift. It talks about Canadians 18-29 being more likely than the general population to do these acts.