Slashdot Mirror
States Push to Collect Online Sales Tax
Carl Bialik from the WSJ writes "On Saturday, 18 states will implement the Streamlined Sales Tax Project, which will make it easier to collect local and state sales taxes on purchases made over the Internet while offering amnesty on uncollected taxes. In their longstanding opposition to collect sales tax, many online retailers 'have cited a 1992 Supreme Court ruling that said that it would be too onerous for e-tailers to calculate all the permutations of differing state and local tax rates,' the Wall Street Journal reports. 'One goal of the project was to remove the ruling as a key defense for online merchants.' Is your state involved? 'The states that have signed on are Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota and West Virginia. Five more -- Arkansas, Ohio, Tennessee, Utah and Wyoming -- are in the process of finalizing the requirements needed to join, while Washington, Texas and Nevada are in earlier stages.'"
Thank God you can still lie to servers about your location (sheesh...)
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
They aren't alone, I think a LOT of states do it, but there's 0 enforcement. Just like the MA optional higher tax rate, who's seriously going to volunteer to give more money to their state gov?
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Massachusetts does the same thing.
Well, it sucks that they are getting around to figuring out how to tax online purchases. However, I can't really fault them for doing it. As more and more sales go online, there is a real issue with decreasing tax revenues. It probably won't be a critical issue for decades, but the fact is that governments need taxes to operate and I've always tended to prefer sales taxes over income taxes.
Yet another attempt to distribute my hard earned wealth among those too lazy or incompetent to work work themselves. Just what I wanted!
Yeah! just like those lazy aerospace engineers at NASA, and all those lazy-ass soldiers and sailors in Iraq. Damn gubmint comin' in and sealin' all mah money!
my pet machine
While I disagree with this arguement, it *could* be argued that the Internet creates a presence in every state, far beyond the old days of mail order catalogs.
Seems like a pretty shaky argument. Because the buyer and seller can swap IP packets the seller has a local nexus? Exchanging messages over the Internet seems precisely analogous to exchanging bits of paper (catalogs and order forms) via the postal service.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
For years, there was a myth that online sales were "cheaper" because you didn't pay sales tax. Rather, the truth is that states, counties and municipalities were being cheated out of collecting legal sales and use taxes.
If you don't like sales tax, then fight your local/state sales and use taxes on principal. But as long as 7-11 down the street has to charge it, why should a company that's in another state be exempt?
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
The article mentions how some states consider candy different than other food as an example of the many little differences in tax code. Another one is different counties charge different taxes - in New York state, Queens county and Nassau county have slightly different tax rates. And then these tax rates change every time a new law is passed. So you have to update your tax tables whenever that happens. Most people who are truly concerned about this pay thousands to get regular Taxware updates. Luckily, right now I only have to worry about one state.
Now in general terms, I would not mind if some flat, national tax were charged on items going from me to a consumer. I could just say "add x.y%" to every sale, just like everyone else would be doing. But the way this is being done is ridiculous. What has happened in the US is that federal taxes have remained the same, I suppose to pay for the increased military spending for the war in Iraq and whatnot, while money the federal government used to give to the states was cut. So now the states are all scrambling to get money, and since the politicians don't want to go after locals, they are fighting to gouge out of state people for taxes. So we have this mess. And it doesn't effect Amazon.com who can afford to pay for Taxware updates and whatnot, it hurts the small businessman like me, who now has a lot more work to do and may have to buy expensive Taxware updates to be in compliance with this. If one steps back and looks at the whole country, this is a ridiculous way to do things. It's not even that I have to pay the tax, if everyone else had to, it's that now I have to be concerned about not just the tax laws of each state, but the tax laws of each county in each state. It's ridiculous. So much for "state's rights".
Actually this is not a calculating issue as the taxes would probably only be off by a small percentage. It's more of a political issue. No president wants the interest rates to fly upwards on their watch. No president wants to add internet tax on their watch either.
If they matched internet tax with sales tax, then I can see a mega boom for online stores in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon.
Article. I, Section. 10., Clause 2 specifically forbids states from collecting intrastate tariffs. But, for some strange reason if they call it a "use" tax it's ok. I'm also guessing that if the south reinstituted slavery under the term "Happy Fun Work" it'd be legal.
Surely if I got to California and buy something, take it back to my state, I'm not obligated to pay a sales tax back here. And if I asked my brother to buy me something and bring it back from California, I wouldn't have to pay my state's sales tax. But for some reason, could it be greed?!, if I pay FedEx to bring it to me, suddenly I have to pay.
I have NO problem paying sales tax. I think that if I buy something shipped from California, for example, California's sales tax should be added to the order. But I see no reason to flush the Constitution merely because states are greedy.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I imagine that, when you are thinking of regulation interstate commerce, you are thinking of Justice Marshall's ruling in Gibbons v. Ogden. That talks about the power of states to limit navigation of commerce between their borders. That ruling did not adress the legaility of a sales tax (a tax on consumption).
You know what? I pay 42% *OFF THE TOP* (single-no deductions and make fairly decent money), California can go FUCK itself if It thinks i am paying an internet sales tax which it can just redistribute to illegal aliens in counties like San Bernardino where *30%* of the residents are on assistance. Thats right california, I'm telling you and your crooked legislature to fuck off. And yes I live in california. I'm sick of working my ASS off (12 hours days, everyday) so that the government can redistribute my education and my hard work to people. Becuase thats what its doing. I work 10 - 12 hour days everyday, and the first 5 or 6 hours of that the government takes. I want to pay no taxes and work 6 hours a day and have an easy life like all the people my taxes support.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
The article says "states and local governments will lose $18 billion in online sales tax in 2005".
They're not losing that money. It's staying in the pockets of their citizens for them to spend or save as they see fit. All that's happening is that the money is not being filtered through the sticky fingers of the politicians on its path to supposedly benefit those citizens.
Insert witty sig here.
it's no wonder the poor need so much assistance over there with a regressive tax that massive.
In VAT's defence, at least for the UK, when it was set up it was intended to be a luxery tax - a tax on cars, perfumes, colour teevees, etc. Even today certain things, like children's clothing, is VAT-exempt, and other things, like electricity (don't know about gas, etc) is VAT-rated at only 5%.
But basically you're absolutely right - VAT's a regressive tax these days. Maybe we could argue that there's a case for standardising EU VAT downward, in line with US Sales Tax?!
This is where the serious fun begins.
What demands does an out-of-state company place upon the local infrastructure? They don't require police or fire protection from the local infrastructure, they don't use the telecommunications, they don't even use the roads that your hypothetical "local retailer". Since they require no services from the government local to the purchaser, why should they be required to collect and pay taxes for those services?
Black and grey are both shades of white.
The tax goes to where the item is delivered, or "used"
It is the same way with counties and cars (and other big ticket items) here in Ohio- If I but a car in Cuyahoga County where the sales tax is 8%, but I live in Summit COunty where the tax is 7%, I pay 7% tax on the car....
Technically, If you live in a high tax county, and buy stuff in a low tax county, you are supposed to send the county/Sate gov't the difference each year. But of course if you live in a low tax county and shop in a high tax county, you dont get a refund at the end of the year.
And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
Okay, this is ridiculous. How can Republicans still claim to be for fewer taxes, when 17 of the 21 states listed are red states?
I agree with your last sentence about cutting the pork, but you are wrong about everything else up to that point. Government expenditures always rise to meet revenue (and then some). Therefore if the Feds sent my $300 to my state government, they would have spent $350, which means they would still be looking to tax Internet sales. Government (at any level) won't even consider spending cuts until they have positive verification that the money is gone and borrowing is maxed out. The only way to put a limit on what government spends is to put a limit on how much they take in.
That says they have no ability to tax or regulate interstate commerce?
The supreme law of the land does mean something, you know.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
When is enough enough? I know we need taxes for things like policmen, firemen, the military, the courts, roads, etc, but fer cryin' out loud, when I have to work until July 1 just to pay my income, property, sales, gas, ticket, etc etc etc taxes, I'm ready to spend the winter at Valley Forge. If a politican and bureaucrat are getting less of our money to waste because there is no on-line sales tax, and they complain about it, then I for one am against any internet tax.
*sigh* Sorry, I'll go cheer myself up by reading some Thomas Payne and James Madison ... until the government tries to ban those books.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
No. First, this is America; you can earn in the top 3% of world income and qualify for poverty benefits here. And yes, America's cost of living is higher, but this is also a land where opportunity knocks, rings the doorbell, and looks in the window to see if you didn't hear. And while I don't mind helping people, I do mind being forced to help people, particularly those who wet their own nests. Then expect me to clean it up. And repeat the process. Again and again.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
I am paying for the privilege of not being surrounded by slack-jawed morons with not a whit of education to their name. I am also paying for the privilege to deal almost exclusively with people who learned to cope with a forced social setting. Even if I do not partake of the educational services offered in my district directly, I indirectly benefit from it every time I interact with the world around me.
Yes, I aware of the state of public education (in the US) today. Everything I said is true, in theory. It is the execution that leaves a lot to be desired.
42%? Interesting. I make "fairly decent money" and my state income tax is about 5%. I played around with the Franchise Tax Board's tax table calculator, and couldn't get it to go over ~9.2%. Of course, my federal tax is 25%, so I'm assuming you're counting federal tax.
Combining federal tax tables and state tax tables, I'd guess your income is at least $146,000 a year (33% federal + 9% state). If you are working 10-12 hours a day you are spending too much time at work. Scale back your lifestyle a bit. I make $47,000 (working eight hours a day) and am happy doing it.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
Your problem isn't really what you pay, it's how they squander it away.
My attitude is simply that if we are going to act like socialists (which we do), and pay taxes like socialists (which we do), then I want plenty of socialist programs (like universal healthcare) as enjoyed by other western countries.
It would make the states more competitive in terms of cost of labor, I can tell you that.
In some places there are much, much more just off the top: 1. Federal Income Tax - 25% 2. State Income Tax - 5% 3. County Income Tax - 1.5% 4. City Income Tax - 1.5% 5. Medicare - 2.9% 6. Medicaid (depending on your state) - (sometimes half #5) 1.45% 7. FICA/SS - 6.2% So if you are making between 40 and 60 thousand, this is pretty typical = %43.55 This is only what you see. Your employer pays another 6.2% + 1.45% for Fica/Medicare, plus FUTA (Federal Unemployment Tax Act) contribution, some type of state unemployment tax, as well as other local taxes or "fees". It really does add up to a lot! Income tax is only the biggest line item, all the other stuff really piles up as well!
Anyone spending half their life at work should reassess their priorities, regardless of what society is taking from them.
Why? They need to reassess to match your priorities? Thanks, but no thanks. Freedom allows all of us to make choices. If I want to make 50k/year and chill out that's fine, if I want to bust my ass and possibly make lots more that should be fine too. By society taking more than they are giving to individuals you actually take away one of the huge incentives to work hard and innovate.
listening to all the people complain about bush's tax cuts then roughly half of the population should be giving more money to state and federal coffers. its not like you are being forced to pay less now. i think many people only want higher taxes to screw people they perceive as 'ultra-rich' as my favourite congresswoman calls any family that earns over $85,000 a year. i would call that decently middle class considering that u.s. per capita is about $40k.
always mosh clockwise
A SHITTY house here costs 600k .
So MOVE already! I'm so damn tired of people bitching about how their hovel costs half a million dollars. There are plenty of mid sized cities in america where you can buy a well maintained house in a nice neighborhood for about $100/sqft (1500 to 4000 sqft, your choice). If you're used to working 12 hours a day, you're probably not getting out much, so where you live shouldn't be an issue. If you have to take a pay cut from $150k to $100k, it will be well worth it. You'll likely save enough on taxes and mortgage interest to offset the income, and probably won't have to work such long hours. Plus, you're a lot less likely to lose your ass if the value of your house drops.
You seem to hate it so much, what the hell made you want to live there in the first place?
I'm confused. How is buying something on the Internet (when the company is in another state no less) not INTERstate commerce? And since when did the constitution stop explicitly forbidding states from taxing interstate commerce? Now maybe it is arguable that the spirit of that law was that Nevada could not put a tax on goods passing from California to Utah, but I don't think the artlcie spells it out in those terms. I am pretty sure that no state is allowed to tax goods that pass across a border. Of course IANAL so I can't say for sure.
I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
go to McDonalds, Wendys, Burger King, what color isn't the skin of the person behind the counter? Do you honestly believe that the poor are poor because they're lazy? You're ignorant in the highest degree.
In a lot of places we have created a social underclass, and in those places this republic, unfortunately, is just like the Roman one. Run on slavery, only this time it's socially except able. We put the "socially challenged" in worse schools, and let them drop out. We tell them you can't work here without x degree. Despite the fact that for the majority of jobs OTJT is the best education you can get.
Is it intentional?
Not at all, but is it what's happening? Yes.
The poor get poorer, and the rich get richer. Do you believe that poor family's tend to stay poor, and rich family's tend to stay, rich because rich people are more motivated, better suited for success? Get a clue, mod me troll, ignorance such as yours serves no one.
I was born poor white trash, into a family with 8 children, and a single mother. I'm well on my way to living a more successful life than her but I'm not ignorant to the fact that I had a LOT of help. Help not available to most people. That's why I'm where I am today.
Yes I work hard, but no harder than the guys I used to work with when I was painting pools shoulder to shoulder with them.
Yes I'm intelligent, but no more so than any one else I've worked with.
I know for a fact that I'm where I am today simply because I have friends with friends with friends that pulled some strings and get me a break, to get that interview. And no matter what you say about affirmative action I know that when I go on an interview I have a leg up on a black applicant, or an applicant with an accent, just because I was born white into a family while broke for all intents and purposes, were well spoken.
You have no idea how stacked in your favor were the cards, that allow you to sit in your position, and pass judgment on those that aren't as successful as you. Ignorance like this disgusts me.