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Orson Scott Card Reviews Everything
H_Fisher writes "Orson Scott Card, author of sci-fi classic Ender's Game and many other novels and stories, has posted his review of the much-discussed Joss Whedon film Serenity (which opened at #2 in the US box office this past weekend). Among other things, Card has this to say about Serenity: 'Those of you who know my work at all know about Ender's Game. I jealously protected the movie rights to Ender's Game so that it would not be filmed until it could be done right ... I'll tell you this right now: If Ender's Game can't be this kind of movie, and this good a movie, then I want it never to be made.'" With praise for Full House, Friends, Being John Malkovich, and Lost to boot.
i like the movie, with the exception of the reevers... how did these beings operate space ships, propagate, follow a chain of command... ???
Let me ask again. Can we pleeeeeeeaaaaeeeaaaze take the serenity poll down and replace it with something else?
As a person I don't have alot of respect for OSC.
:(
However as a writer I have alot of respect for his work and his ability to tell an interesting and complex story. Enders Game and The Tales of Alvin Maker are great stories and series in and of themselves and I think it's nice to see someone who sticks to their guns for a change and won't let their movie be utterly butchered... like ULG's Wizard of Earthsea, that was so sad.
That is about the absolute best review I've ever seen for any movie and it's enough to make me go see the movie several days sooner than I had planned... I'm really looking forward to seeing this movie now.
Hopefully OSC can get someone to make Ender's Game the right way, hell I'd even settle for the Tales of Alvin Maker... (speaking of which there is an MMORPG coming out based on that-- same people who did A Tale in the Desert.)
Shadus
i believe the ender saga to be among the best series i have ever read in the sci fi genre.
enders game is directed to teenagers like myself but the books that follow such as xenocide and children of the mind are definitely not something (most) people my age (14) can comprehend and enjoy. nonetheless they are still my favorite books
How does a TV show go from being cancelled to being made into a top notch movie without somebody at the Network being fired?
OSC says in that review he didn't like Scifi much until Charlie Kaufman wrote "Being John Malkovich" and "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind", I didn't see ESotSM, but BJM was about a group of people who found a door into a Hollywood actors brain. Was there some scientific explanation of that which I missed? What's even more confusing is in the same article he says the Matrix is some kind of "magic scifi".
I have long respected him as a writer and as a reviewer, my taste and his seem to line up alot, I guess thats why I like his books. Not my choice of religion, but then nobody's is...
I loved Serenity, it was a great movie, its about the story, take it for what its the story and what the story is saying. Is it high cinema, NO it not goona win any awards for its camera work. Thats what card is saying too, its about the story and the characters in the story. I also agress if Ender's game can't be made at least this good, then its not worth making.
I am sure that one of the many K5 cross overs will undoubtedly meantion the "Card is an Asshat" Story overthere...Personally I like the guy who wrote it for is fiction, but take is review of Card with a pound of Salt if you like over there and read it....
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Actually, this is not as far-fetched as it sounds. Having read the Ender series, I was left somewhat unsettled by it but I didn't give it enough of my focus to figure out why - and then I read this: "Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality" by John Kessel http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm
Given OSC's political views, I think it can pretty safely be said that the guy is basically a fascist sympathesizer or something else equally distasteful.
FWIW, you could check out Wiki on "Ender's Game" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_game
What's interesting is that there are many parallels between Hitler and Ender, watered down only by the fact that Card carefully constructed the story so as to ameliorate Ender's personal culpability - but when you think about it, the story is so contrived as to make that possibility somewhat implausible even within the context of a rather far out sci-fi story.
If you want to see some of his best writing (and most
/. complainer), then you can learn a lot
diverse) get his short story anthology Maps in a Mirror.
It's also annotated, so it gives you a great peek into
his mind and how/why he writes certain stories. That
really shows off the brilliance of OSC as a writer.
Also, if you are or want to be a writer yourself (rather
than a typical
from OSC. His book on how to write SciFi is the best
on that topic. He also provides a lot of help for
writers on his website.
Really, what makes OSC great is perhaps not any particular
work, but rather his grasp of people, and that great
stories must be about the characters. Otherwise all you
have is a literary carchase and explosions, just special
effects with no meat.
Oh, and if the Full House thing at the end of the review
puzzles you, then you just haven't read enough of his
reviews to understand his sense of humor, or that he
is a devoted parent and thus sometimes cares about things
that may seem quite corny to adults.
Yes, Card is a nut, and a lot of his personal values don't mesh well with those of the majority of the geek community.
However, a good portion of his work is exceptional. Ender's Game really is a must read, even if the man enjoyed Friends, or thinks the gays will destroy society, or whatever it is he's going on about now.
(which opened at #2 in the US box office this past weekend)
Just a warning but it only did $10.1 million of business against no real competition in a Hollywood dead period. So folks better fill the seats and get the word out or this franchise will pull a Hindenburg. The two major Hollywood seasons are Memorial Day to Labor Day (the Summer Blockbuster months) and Thanksgiving to the Oscars (where Academy Award winners and big holiday films are given a big push. Before Jaws this was the only money period in cinema). September just up to Thanksgiving is a dead period: Hollywood release B features, also rans and things that have been rotting on the shelves. Of course this lack of competition has lead to a surprise breakout every few years and if Serenity can get a good word of mouth campaign to keep up interest then it'll stay solvent.
What is music when you despise all sound?
Like most, the first book of his I read was Ender's Game. It isn't a bad book. But it isn't great, either. Everything in it has been done before, by better writers. Its popularity is due mostly to the "heroic geeky kid beats the adults and saves the world" theme, much like Harry Potter. The other couple books of his I've read seem pretty much the same.
Like I said, it's not really bad. I've got dozens of science fiction books on my shelves churned out by various writers that may not be great literature, but are still a fun afternoon read. Ender's Game should be one of them.
However, in the introduction to Ender's Game, he pretty much claimed to have invented the idea of wargames in the future. This "review" is pretty much just an excuse to talk about how great his book could be if made into a movie. This kind of nonsense leaves me with something of a bad taste in my mouth.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Ender's Game is slated for 2007, directed by Wolfgang Peterson and with a screenplay by Michael Dougherty. The IMDB report on the movie provides very little information, except that it was certainly in the works before the Serenity movie was publicized.
Dougherty doesn't have any high-quality screenplays under his belt (just X2, which was a fun movie, but not the greatest screenplay, and I would think Card agrees) ... does Card retain enough control to carry through with the above claim?
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
Why do so many people apparently think he's actually being serious in the last paragraph? This is Orscon Scott Card, people. That last statement is fully dipped in his usual dry sarcasm.
Despite what the summary says, the Full House support is ravingly sarcastic.
BIG difference, though. There were tens of millions of regular Star Trek viewers thanks to the reruns. Firefly has been almost impossible to find for most of its existence.
If you want to make money, you cater to your audience who mostly didn't know much. I loved the movie and have never seen a Firefly episode in its entirety. My guess is it does OK but not great at the box office but sells DVD's like nobody's business.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
I'll just agree to differ in Opinion. I personally respect Card as writer. I also generally respect his opinions on movies and books. I can't say I fully agree with all his political Ideals. However there are some people attribute to him that simply are not true. Ender's Game is not an apology for Hitler. Card as spoken about this time and time again, that Ender and Hitler have some parallels, Yes. However he was in way even thinking of Hitler when he wrote the book.
I also disagree with his point of view on the whole "Gay" marriage thing. My opinion differs, it doesn't however make me detest him as a person and I still read and enjoy his books. He is a Religious Family man and his views of the world stage are tinted by that fact. He beleives it is the role of our government to uphold some of his ideals. I think its the role of the governemnt to uphold some of mine too, they in someways differ form his, but it is what it is.
We even have a few incommon, for instance he believes that he has the right to rip music to MP3 just like I do.
Many people on the site do not even dig that far into the man however. They respect him as the writer of Ender's Game one of the greatest sci-fi novels ever published. They do not need or want to know anything more than that about him. And thats fine too!
The writer of Ender's Game likes Serenity...and thats good enough for them. I don't think this in anyway contributes to or shows any decay of the site.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
OSC says he likes Sci-Fi, but what he really likes is drama with some edgy technology. As much as he puts down makers of bubble-gum-space-ship sci-fi for not being true to the genre, his own favourites such as Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind are no more true to the genre.
The problem with sci-fi movies may be the lack of real drama and relationships, but that doesn't make movies which excel on those two points any more sci-fi.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
Orson Scott Card is a mediocre writer with an ego that is completely out of proportion to his talent.
I've never met the man, so I can't address that specifically. However, any author whose first novel wins both the Hugo and Nebula awards -- and then goes on to do that again the very next year with the sequel (Speaker for the Dead), certainly has a right to at least some of that ego.
-- Alastair
Personally, I preferred the camera work in this film to that of most big budget films of late.
The main reason is that the camera wasn't afraid of holding a shot for a long time in a battle sequence. Since Gladiator, every big budget film has felt the need to feel 'gritty' by playing with framerates, shaking the hell out of the camera and flitting between viewpoints like mad. It has been making things all but unwatchable. I "watched" half of the Bourne Supremacy without looking at the screen simply because they wouldn't hold a shot long enough to let you get your bearings and would shake the hell out of it just to keep things edgy.
Sure Joss is a huge fan of the two-camera over-the-shoulder dialog sequences, but the simple camera work in that case is effective and does not distract from the dialog, which is his real strong suit.
Sanity is a sandbox. I prefer the swings.
I've never found his fiction writing to be any good. It really is too bad about him being such a homophobe though, because otherwise he has some really good ideas on the process of writing and scifi in general, even if he does suck at creating it himself.
As far as Stilson and the other jerk he killed in self defense, they got justice -- even if you think their punishment was too harsh, they're definitely the guilty parties. This isn't the questionable morality found in a drunk driver's excuse for killing a bicyclist. It's not a matter of Ender's intent being used as an excuse -- even though it's the only way he can justify it to himself. The truth is that they chose to enter a battle to the death with him, fully expecting to kill him, rather than to be killed by him.
Sorry, theorize all you want, but Ender fails to be eqivelant in any way to Hitler.
Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
It's become fashionable in the last few years for geeks to bash on Orson Scott Card, especially those who disagree with his worldview. My theory is that it gives them geek cred to say "I'm so morally pure that I'm not afraid to tear down one of my past idols when he disagrees with me." It's quite cliche by now to read the three following statements in any online O.S.C. discussion:
/. discussions about the man to say "Harlan Ellison is a horse's ass! He's never been that good of a writer, and you should all dismiss everything he writes without thinking about it critically." It's not germane to the discussion, and worse, it's not even intelligent.
1.) "Orson Scott Card is a great writer. Too bad he's such a nut."
2.) "I used to love Orson Scott Card until I read some of his political essays. Now I refuse to read anything he writes."
3.) "Orson Scott Card is overrated. I've never thought he was any good. No, really!"
Frankly, it's tiresome, and it's rare to find anyone who will take on his point of view with a real argument before dismissing him outright. The essay about "Innocent Genocide" that's floating around this discussion is an unusually intelligent exception, and even that spends its time trying to prove that Card is saying something specific without refuting it in any meaningful way. It's taken as a given that once Card's "true" meaning is known, the reader will automatically reject that meaning as false or dangerous.
Personally, I think Harlan Ellison is a horse's ass, but I don't pop up in
I wish that my inferiority complex were as good as yours.
-RenderHead
The first time I read it, I was in middle school or early high school, and thought it was the best damn thing I ever read. I reread it late in college, and couldn't shake the feeling that something about it was very, very wrong---but I didn't really know what it was until I read that article, along with "Sympathy for the Superman". It's an astonishingly well-constructed fanwank, playing to the infantile fantasies that people like us eventually grow out of. (Taking over the world by talking smack on Slashdot? Saving the world through gaming prowess? Killing endless waves of slavering bullies jealous of his ubermenschen nature because he's just that superior?)
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Which has nothing to do with his review. If it did, he'd have been ranting about the fact that Serenity has a bi-sexual prostitute on board for half the film. Instead, he gives a thoughtful analysis of why this movie is better than other "sci-fi" movies in his opinion. At no point does he mention his religion, or yours. Frankly, he's a bigot. But he's also an intelligent, well-spoken, and well-respected author. Which is why he's occasionaly worth listening to. Nobody's perfect.
Do not confuse duty with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different.Duty is a debt you owe to yourself.
Oh yeah. No guy would ever want to see a movie that has relationships and moral decisions in it.
My other Slashdot ID is much lower.
Alright I'll bite. I in no way agree with everything that Card says. For one, I'm not (nor would I ever want to be) a Mormon. That said, if you're going to demonize a man, at least use what he actually said to demonize him, rather than taking a slanted reading with a side of hyperbole. I just read the reference you provided (all of it), and nowhere do I see Card advocating unchecked censorship of the media. In fact, the only thing I see him call for is consequence for the media when they publish something that they should have known was false. Do I agree? Not really. Even though it's a nice idea to hold the media accountable, I think it's too likely to be abused. Do I think that expressing the opinion that it might be a good idea (while seeming to also realize that it's untenable) makes Card into some hard-right statist who wants to control my life? Not by a long shot.
"If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for everyone else."
Not to mention, he and his siblings are such geniuses and so above the mass of humanity that his brother is able to easily conquer the world by the sheer power of his intellect. It's heady stuff for a scholastically over-average kid who fancies himself smarter than his peers. That's why Ender's Game is popular, not because it has any value as SF. I wouldn't trust kids to understand the difference between the twisted world of the book and reality.
See this article from John Kessel for more extended criticism among these lines.
His comments about extreme Islam has to do with his interpretation of geopolitics--it has nothing to do with his religion.
It may have little to do with it.
But when a religious person discusses another, competing religion, it's fair to say that his religion has something to do with his views.
You can't take the sky from me...
This sort of subjectivism regarding OSC became quite stylish about the time that a certain interview came out, revealing some of Card's religiously held sentiments. People who were once quite passive about Card, or even complimentary, suddenly became his worst critics. I know some who loved Ender's Game, and then found out that Card is Mormon. Now they hate it. It's similar to what has happened to L. Ron Hubbard, now that Scientology is a prime target of persecution.
Several years ago, Slashdot's conversations about OSC were generally quite positive. Now you can guarantee that any OSC discussion will contain the following elements:
1) Ender's Game is a Nazi-loving revenge saga. This is a recent argument based on a particular review from an OSC critic. Disciples of this "received" idea now push it as gospel truth.
2) OSC is a homophobe because he disagrees with the gay lifestyle and with gay marriage, even after science has proven that these things are perfectly normal.
3) I hate OSC, but I still think his books are pretty good.
4) I used to love Ender's Game, but now that I'm older and smarter, I find that I hate it because it's actually quite shallow. People who still like it are nostalgics.
5) OSC is a crazy mormon (followed by a list of crazy things about mormonism). Usually followed up by a post redirecting the interested and "uneducated" reader to any number of anti-mormon sites.
6) General fear and loathing of OSC and his "political" ideals. This is followed by a good dose of anti-right-wing hate talk.
7) Posts from OSC apologists (hi!) interspersed throughout the discussion.
8) OSC is trying to brainwash us with his books and I resent it.
Anyone can say that OSC is a novice hack. Well, I've read several of those other SF novelists mentioned in the parent post, whose books I also enjoy. I find that, lacking the anti-OSC bigotry, it is difficult for me to categorize OSC as a novice hack. Ender's Game is an award winning SF novel and was once quite well-regarded by those very deeply interested in the genre.
I find that OSC is quite outspoken, but nowhere near the bigot that his critics are.
Did you actually read the series, or just the first book???
While the (strained) comparisons between Ender and Hitler might be quasi-justifiable within the strict context of book 1, the other three Ender books go a long way in further establishing Ender's (adult) character, and in differentiating him from a genocidal sociopath like Hitler.
As much as I disagree with many of Card's religious and political views, I can't shake the feeling that the Ender/Hitler comparison is propaganda put together by people who are deeply offended and/or threatened by his religio-political stance.
And whether they are justified in that feeling or not, it reeks of an attempt at indirect social censorship. (Censorhip being, ironically, something to which the same people supposedly stand diametrically opposed.) Don't want people to hear what someone has to say? Slap a stigma on his writing, making it scary for anyone to identify with anything he says. And what better stigma than Hitler?
Bleh. Words cannot express how much I hate politics. It works exactly opposite to the scientific ideal. Decisions are not made by debating over the advantages put forth by each party of their chosen approach. Rather, they are made by debating over who has done the best job of demonizing their opponent.
As I stated before, I thought ender's game was incredibly shallow and unimpressive long, long, long before that "article" you refer to was ever published.
If you're implying the only reason I am criticizing ender's game is because of that article, you're dead wrong. Simple as that.
And FWIW I thought clarke's "3001" was a pile of doggie poo also. If something is shit, I call it like I see it. I'm so terribly sorry if that offends you, but shit is shit.
I care not if OSC is a blathering idiot, but a good writer he most definitely is not -- regardless of his political/economic/sociological leanings.
ender's game won awards, big deal. those were dry years and slim pickings. ender's game was the least shit of the piles of shit at the time. but it still doesn't mean ender's game isn't shit.
I'd put Card on the same level as Bear or Niven. All three authors have written some great stuff and some truly embarrassing stuff. Despite some of the obvious ploys, clumsy forshadowing, and emotional exploitation, I still think Ender's Game is an excellent work.
Two thoughts:
First, OSC may have quite different political ideas than you. You may think he's a crappy writer. You may think he has bad breath.
But you (and the GP) didn't say any of those things. You said *he's insane*.
Now, think for a moment. You know how sometimes you hear about how what's wrong with America is how we demonize people who don't agree with us? About how far political discourse has fallen, because instead of talking about ideas, all we do is call each other names? About how the few voices of reason get drowned out by all the voices shrieking hate?
Well, now consider this: I bet, when you do, it never occurs to you that they're talking about *you*.
OSC's views are, as far as I can tell, well within conservative mainstream. You may *disagree* with them, but that doesn't mean they're extreme, or that he's "batshit insane." Calling them "batshit insane" doesn't say anything about OSC -- if anything, it tells us about *you*, and how seriously we should take anything you say.
Understand? I think gun control advocates, for example, are wrong and misguided. But I don't think they're "batshit insane."
My second thought, to the moderators: I just wanted to point out that you took a post that said, essentially, "Me too," and modded it INFORMATIVE. Nice.
- Alaska Jack
Did you know that Ender's Game is on the Marine Corps' recommended reading list for Junior elisted personnel?
I actually find that very very scary.
The reality is that the underlying theme of the book, that intent makes makes all the difference in measuring good and evil, that an otherwise "good" person may be obligated to commit horrible deeds in the name of the greater good... That's the message that matters, because that's the position that our people in uniform have routinely found themselves in throughout our history.
Uhu, and that is the VERY THING the article objects to, the message that you are good and innocent while simultanously killing. Come on, like the nazis and all other killers through history wasn't justifying what they were doing the same way. "Sure, all this stuff is distasteful, but we are doing it for the greater good...". And the book constantly paint the opponents as completely evil with no redeeming qualities and no motivations of their own, making it a very easy choice to kill them. Very convenient don't you think?
I prefer this quote from Gandhi:
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die