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When to Leave That First Tech Job

An anonymous reader writes "Chris Wilson has an interesting piece about a scenario all CompSci/Engineering students dread, getting a job out of college and having it quickly turn sour. He writes: 'The first layoff is tough. After bending over backward, after being a loyal employee, this is the reward? To summarize how I felt: Disillusioned.' He discusses warning signs you should look for in your own work environment that point toward "Getting out". An interesting read, especially for aspiring engineers or engineers out on their first job."

3 of 689 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Service unavailable by Jugalator · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  2. Here are my tips by ReformedExCon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Take them for what they are worth.

    When to start looking for a new job
    1) You notice that the best engineers are systematically leaving the company
    - They are leaving for a reason. Maybe it's bad management, maybe it's bad pay. Whatever it is, you don't want it either.

    2) You are forced to take a pay cut
    - If you take a pay cut, take it when switching jobs. Your salary at a company should always be increasing, and never decreasing.

    3) The coffee delivery man stops refilling your coffee machines
    - Amenities getting cut in a budget crisis are one of the signs that further budget cuts are on the way.

    4) The network gets locked down
    - Some companies will lock down the network in an effort to eliminate wasted time. It leads to bitterness among the employees and rarely works out the way the management wants it to.

    5) The company get-togethers become more frequent, but less extravagant
    - HR is one of the first departments to know when things are going down the tubes. They respond by trying to raise morale with fun company get-togethers, but with a limited budget these get-togethers are less banquet celebrations and more confused standing around a punch bowl in the lunch room.

    6) The CEO position has changed hands twice in one year
    - It is not uncommon that a CEO will quit after a certain amount of time at the top. It is a bad sign, though, when a CEO can't last a year. Something is wrong with the business and he is getting out while the getting is good. You should follow his lead.

    7) The CFO position has changed hands twice in one year
    - CFOs are relatively harmless glorified accountants. Except when it comes to budgetary issues. If a CEO can't keep CFOs around, it is because they don't want to work for your CEO. Maybe you shouldn't either.

    8) Your company announces a Brand New Direction
    - Companies can't just change their direction. Every move should be calculated and based on the strengths of the company. If your company designs software to run banking systems, be wary when the CEO declares that the company will begin work on medical systems.

    9) The atmosphere is acrid
    - In a company where things are going well, there is usually a very strong atmosphere of comraderie. When things are going bad, or people are overstressed, that atmosphere turns sour. This cascades from the upper levels of management on down, so be aware when your coworkers stop being friendly.

    10) The company opens a "research center" or "development center" in an impoverished country
    - Companies have found that they can increase headcount by hiring low-cost engineers in impoverished countries like India. They will typically declare the foreign site as a development center to handle development overflow from the main office, and that no current employee will be let go (so relax, because you're safe). This seems to be okay until you notice that headcount in the local office is decreasing because the employees that are leaving aren't being replaced. Brain drain at any company is a serious issue, and one that is directly caused by this type of off shoring.

    --
    Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
  3. Inexperienced author = bad advice by endus · · Score: 5, Informative

    The inexperience of the author is overwhelmingly evident in the "take no crap, live in my fantasy world" tone that he takes. Don't work in cubicles? Yea right, so where is the other 95% of the IT industry going to work since they are now barred from working at any company which doesn't piss away all it's money on overpriced urban real estate so every junior level coder can have their own office. To equate a company's respect for it's employees with whether or not they give you an office is a clear fallacy and will bar the author from working at many, many fine companies. Don't get me wrong, I hate cubeland too...HATE it. As a noncomformist it really rubs me the wrong way. However, it's the reality of what you have to put up with in this industry. It's a minor complaint in the grand scheme of things.

    He rambles on with the usual "the boss doesn't take my genius advice" garbage too. It's not surprising and I certainly had my complaints about how they did things at the company I was laid off from a year out of college. However, that's how things are. Your goal should be getting in to a company where the higher-ups make good decisions so you don't HAVE to feel like everyone is stupider than you. I think a lot of times it's a corporate culture issue and you need to find a place which does things the same way you would do them. It doesn't necessarily mean that a company is bad just because everything isn't done the way you want it. The higher ups are the higher ups and they are going to do things they way they want to do them whether you agree with them or not. If the company is doing stupid things, I would agree that it could be a warning sign, but this dude frames it as though his junior level advice is supposed to matter. It's good to have a boss that listens to everyone, but sometimes you do not understand all the factors involved.

    One of the most important things I think you learn working for companies in offices your first couple years out is office and company politics. There are SO many factors that go into decision making beyond what is technically important. Sometimes those other factors result in bad technical implementation, but a lot of times those other factors are just the reality of doing business and you need to accept them and work with them rather than chafing against them with the "I'm a genius" attitude the author takes. You as the junior level employee are not always privy to all the information which goes in to making a decision.

    Certainly, there are bad managers and bad companies out there, but I think this dude is just not framing his advice in the right way. He comes off as the bitter, smarter than you tech worker who just got laid off. I think his attitude is part of the learning process, but I also think that he is giving bad advice to people who may be in a similar situation. He's making it out as if you're going to find a utopian place to work in your first couple years out: not going to happen for most people. I certainly don't encourage anyone to stay somewhere they're not happy, but you need to think about the balance of experience you're getting and what you're going to do in the future. If you keep quitting jobs because they're not treating you like a king, you will never, ever get a job you really like. When you're on the bottom rung sometimes you need to suck it up and put in your time. A lot of times, as you get more experience, things will start to make more sense to you.

    I don't mean to come off as the jaded gray cubeland dweller. I certainly want to change certain things where I work and I am not exactly a conformist on any level. However, there are things you learn with experience that you just don't learn any other way. Now, with a couple years under my belt, I am just starting to understand why things are done the way they are. I am fortunate to be at a company which I think makes really excellent policies, in general, and being here it's easy to see that there are things I don't understand which actually result in a network that works pretty well. Coming to understand those factors is what you learn by sticking it out and not demanding the corner office right away.