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HBO Attacking BitTorrent
DIY News writes "HBO is actively poisoning the BitTorrent downloads of the new show Rome. In addition to an older tactic of offering bogus downloads that never complete, HBO is now obstructing the downloads offered by other people. HBO runs peers that tell the tracker they have all the chunks of the show, but then send garbage data when a downloader requests a chunk. While the bogus peers can be detected, it will take much longer to download shows."
Closed registration torrent sites will be able to weed out the poisoners.
I use torrents instead of the TiVo I don't own. I've got fully legit paid for HBO but lately I've been too busy to watch Rome so I've just been d/l-ing them. I wonder how that falls under fair-use?
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
It might be worth noting that I was using Azureus and running PeerGuardian at the time of the download.
I'm running Azureus on a different computer now.
In Bittornado, and possibly other clients, there's an option you can check that will ban peers that do this.
prefs -> check [Kick/ban clients that send you bad data]
After at least one failed hash check, the client won't eat any more poison, so to speak.
the IP's seem to all be in the range 70.85.*.* fyi. It trival to block them makeing the bt client time out on trying to connect and thus a clean torrent. Further they only send bad data, they do not download.
Yes I do have HBO legally, and I am pissed about this.
That's pretty cute, the use of "obstructing" in the summary. Usually when I hear the word obstructing it is in phrases like "obstructing justice." Obstructing is usually something the criminals do. The word has picked up a pretty negative connotation.
But here, we have HBO obstructing the downloading of their copyrighted material. HBO is obstructing copyright violation. Would you say that a lock obstructs breaking and entering? Or that self defense obstructs assault? Perhaps good server administration obstructs the stealing of private data. Of course you wouldn't say that. It sounds silly. So why is HBO obstructing downloads?
are understandable since Rome is their big subscription pitch for the moment. If they can frustrate DLers enough to pay for a subscription, buy or rent the dvd, then they can profit. While many opinionated slashdotters will scoff and say people should boycott HBO, fact of the matter is most people's convictions aren't so strong that they will throw away the time invested in watching the earlier episode. On a positive note, the fact that HBO has some sense of what is going on technologically means that they are that much closer to offering download services of their own.
Easy solution. Dedicate a website to Rome trackers that actually contain other things (like fan-created things). Name them like HBO Rome Episode One.torrent, etc, etc. HBO will ejaculate half their money into lawyers and it'll go down like a burning ship
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
As I recall it started to get obvious a couple of weeks ago. Rome's a great series I couldn't see without P2P groups. MediaSentry released a 95+% complete fake of the next week's episode onto the networks a week early in order to try and entrap sharers. I tested that release by repairing the 95% downloaded file and it was indeed just silent black video fill-in. Peerguardian lit up like a christmas tree during (and for days after) the download.
I'm curious as to how they can chase people for sharing a file devoid of any content or copyrighted materials like that.
Anyway, it's really not a problem for people that use blocklists and blocklist managing tools such as PeerGuardian.
Now here's a note for the HBO readers. I will pay for your content. I'll buy DVD's of this series and all the other quality TV shows I can only currently acquire 'illegally'. I will also be quite happy to see a little watermark advertisement in place of corporate branding in the corner of the screen. That's some premium ad space you're wasting there - you know this quality material will spread like a virus. And on top of that it's an additional incentive to buy the non-watermarked content when you make it available. Come on, please do get with the programme. Believe it or not we actually want companies that make quality entertainment to succeed in their efforts almost as much as the company executives themselves. The old distribution model is dead. Believe it or not, and scary though it may be, this is actually good news for all of us.
So if HBO is poisioning the torrent data, then those people that have ROME data that get a C&D from the HBO Laywers could argue in fact the data wasn't the show, but garbage fetched from a trashbot?
How about a new business model? I'd pay $1 per show to download a real file of the quality of the shows I've seen on the net. You know, the DivX files. Sure in their minds it's worth a $99 box set, but lets be honest... how many millions of people would plunk $1 to download error free, hassle free an episode? Maybe tolerate 2 ads before the video plays. No DRM.
It would then not be worth the trouble to even bother with torrents.
TVoverIP is coming.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
I started watching Rome after a friend got an unsolicited DVD from HBO in his mail that had the first episode of Rome. I really liked it and wanted to get into the series, but it's the kind of show where you have to watch the episodes in order. So I had no choice but to download the first five episodes from my commerical usenet feed :)
I did however watch the sixth episode "regularly" on HBO, so I guess their tactic gained them a viewer. Then I immediately downloaded that episode so I could have a complete collection. Next Sunday, I'll probably be on my couch watching the seventh episode as it airs. And then I'll download it, too.
I'm not sure what the moral of this post is. Perhaps that "pirates" and legitimate customers are more closely intertwined than the simplistic among us would like to admit.
Clearly, you don't understand the problem and you don't understand the technology.
Rome sucks, it's by far their worst show in 10 years.
I use Torrents to download legal things like linux isos and video clips and copylefted music like mine.
I also use it to download the occasional missed episode that I can't tivo.
how exactly does the license work for stuff you send out over the free air waves work?
"we're beaming this into outerspace, but you can't download it from the internet because we could theoretically charge you for it. We don't want to do that because we can't quite figure out a business model that involves what people want."
CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, UPN, WB, HBO, SHO: offer for download for a nominal fee, $1.50 or so, HD episodes with DD sound of your shows on your website in a reasonable format (not Real Media) with decent high quality compression, and I guarantee people will use it. I would consider downloading a complete season for $1.50 an episode.
They're using their grammar skills there.
I heard about BSG from a friend. I went and bought the miniseries. My wife and I both love the show.
Here's the rub. We don't have cable. We canceled it last year because we were out of town so much and just never turned it back on.
I downloaded all of season 1 and we watched it. We just bought the Season 1 box set. We also bought the soundtrack cd. We're doing the same thing with Season 2 and waiting for the box set.
I can't justify spending 60 bucks a month on cable to watch one show that I like. I'm begging Sci-Fi Network to create a way for me to pay to download the episodes. I would even sit through the commercials if they were a part of the download. Just gotta be able to play it on Linux since that's what my media center is.
If I were a television programmer I would rail against the cable companies for all they're worth to break my channel into a ala cart package. It might create more veiwers. If I'm a cable company, it's revenue that I wouldn't be seeing anyway.
I heard about Carnivale on slashdot because Ronald Moore wrote several episodes. I downloaded the first season to see what it was all about. I loved the show (even if it was a bit slow at times). I bought the first season DVD and download season 2 episodes when I find out that HBO has cancelled the damn show!
Let me say this. I'm not going to pay for cable. It's a waste of money for 3 channels that we want (sci-fi, BBC and A&E - my wife loves Poirot).
And while I'm posting this anon, it's not worth tracking me down with lawyers. I don't have the shows I've downloaded anymore. Once we watch an episode we delete it.
Azureus also has a plugin called SafePeer that automagically downloads a list of 'bad' IPs. Currently there are about 117,000 banned IPs in my block list, and I get good solid download speeds. Could also just add the HBO range of IP address's to the block list, thus their clients will be ignored completely.
DSLIP Web Design and Content Management Australia.
Let's do some math:
Now lets see, HBO has at least four decent series, and I'll let you do the math. I think $4/download for each hour long series they do would compensate them more than enough.
It's time media companies adapt and grow up.
- Nolan Eakins
this really doesnt piss me off. the resson being is that i have HBO anyway with my cable package. i use my time warner DVR to record rome evrery week and watch it after it is aired. what would really piss me off and make me download it to watch is if they decided to delete my show ( like the new tivo) without me consenting.
you reallly should subscribe to HBO, its not that expensive and they have awesome programming. Entourage, movies, rome, comeback, sopranos (re-runs). HBO rocks.. i would pay for the programming any day.
sadly, the only people suffering here because of this "poisioning" is the people tha subscribe, and dont have a DVR to record what they missed. sometimes even if you buy it it justifies downloading.
What HBO is doing is what every business should be doing instead of taking the RIAA's route.
That's called "vigilante justice", and there are laws against it. Maybe HBO's particular denial of service attack on BitTorrent is both harmless and specific in this case, but the next attempt at vigilante justice may end up shutting down the OpenSuSE distribution as a side effect.
HBO's actions amount to computer hacking and denial of service, and they should be treated as such by the legal system. On the other hand, if HBO wishes to claim copyright infringement, they should bring legal cases; nobody other than a court of law can determine whether copyright infringement has taken place.
(May not be real gold. Actual colour will depend on variables including, but not limited to, user stylesheet and monitor calibration. Void where prohibited by law.)
In fact, I bet you even know why "whets" is the correct word, rather than "wets". It's just a pity nobody else does...
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Well then HBO for gods sake please, pretty please, *let me pay you guys*!!
HBO rules, I would gladly pay for watching The Wire, Bill Maher and Penn and teller`s bullshit...(showtime) But as it stands my European IP isn`t even good enough to get on the showtime website! Let alone paying for HBO. I can get the sopranos, but only two seasons late... and I haven't seen a six feet under for a couple of seasons now.
Ofcourse living Europe I can:
Now ofcourse I can get all emotional about this but there is a cool thing about using azureus. It has room for crazy plugins that do stupid useless things like displaying the flags of the countries that the client I share with come from. The thing is based on geolocation (Like I assume the showtime site is).... So it is even less scientific than a slashdot poll. The funny thing is that most of these clients apear to be from European countries, especially the ones where people tend to know a bit of english. Say Denmark, the UK, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Poland and Germany.
It makes perfect sense that HBO original series would appeal more to European audiences than American shows that lack at least two things, acting, and seven English words that Europeans still know but American apparently stopped using... wait, thats eight things, but still.
This is too easy.
If you dont want to buy it because they wont give you a free sample, that is your choice. But that doesnt legitamize people who want to download, against the will of HBO. Their marketing descisions are not the same as your entitlment.
The GP, KFG, was not indicating that downloading was appropriate. I believe that the point was that HBO's decision was DUMB. I'll repeat it, too: HBO and all the other companies attempting to control downloads of material that can be legally recorded have the marketing knowledge of insects. They are DUMB, STUPID, MORONIC, and other all-caps words.
This doesn't mean that I think that downloading is appropriate.
Maybe you expect anyone who attacks copyright holders' choices to favor direct violation of the law. I'm not sure. On the other hand, you definitely have no clue what copyright and patent law are for. They encourage people to provide their artistic, intellectual, and technical work to the public. Ownership of such work is vested in the law of people, and is not a natural condition. Publishing companies have used these laws to profit from works created by many people, but that position is not written in stone, or even in law. It is merely an extension of the copyright laws and control of technology that have formed in the last few hundred years.
Playing pornographics games during the day is evil! Play at night!
Does BitTorrent use MD5 or SHA1 for computing hashes? How computationally feasible would it be for an organisation on the scale of Time Warner to poison torrents with bogus chunks whose hashes check out correctly? (Could they do it with a few powerful machines? What about a SETI@Home-style distributed-computing application running in the background on all corporate desktops?) If they did that, downloaders would not find out that the file was bogus until they downloaded the whole thing; such a tactic could render BitTorrent unusable for poisoned shows.
I'm sure the executives at HBO are thinking the same thing about people who have the ability to pay for HBO yet won't.
They are probably thinking "Premium cable was a lot easier when all you had to worry about was Captain Midnight."
Actually, I've already paid for Rome, because it was part funded by the BBC and I pay £126 a year to the BBC.
So if I want to watch it a few months early, surely thats not hurting anyone.
I don't, because I haven't actually heard a good review of the show yet.
This seems like any other denial of service attack to the BT users.
This is vigilantism. I am not even a BT user, but how is this different from a DoS attack on a web server or any other portion of machines connected? From the descriptions of the fragments, and slow downloads, it seems disruptive. No matter if you have an issue with someone's activities, a DoS attack is still not a valid way to tread.
But what do I know..
Comment removed based on user account deletion
. . .they're offering a service where you get a lot of movies. . .
Which in the agregate is a block of cheese.
That doesn't address the fact that the block of cheese is never given away for free. Your analogy still does not hold.
A clip is an ad, not a sample.
That's a funny distinction you make, since advertising's entire purpose is to whet a customer's appetite for a product or service in exactly the same manner you claim a "sample" is supposed to. You're splitting hairs because you didn't get a big enough sample. But hey, that doesn't mean you can't be accommodated. As others have mentioned, HBO has been sending out free DVDs of the entire first episode.
Now, you will argue that having a direct download is more convenient, and that may be. But the fact remains that you are confusing "getting a sample" with "taking the whole block of cheese" -- it has nothing to do with the issue at hand (i.e., HBO poisoning the BitTorrent downloads of those who try to take the whole block of cheese without paying).
The only way your analogy works is if you equate downloading the entire series via bittorrent with sampling the show before purchase. You know that's not true, and as such, your entire argument is intellectually dishonest.
I really like the way HBO is handling this. Suing everyone in sight was their other option, but posioning gets the point across they don't want people stealing their shows with out putting every college kid in the poor house. Its fun to see someone fight technology with technology too.
DTV used to ECM people, which effected (hopefully) only those who stole programming, much cooler than their later strategy of suing everyone, inclusing people who never even owned a dish. Don't get me started on the extortion aspects of their settlement offers..
Maybe we should take HBOs sugestion while they're playing nice..