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Solutions for When Managers Hijack Your Code?

Chiggy_Von_Richtoffe asks: "Two friends of mine work at a warehouse distribution center. First, they are customer service representatives, not paid developers. Secondly, the are developing the software in their spare time to make their jobs easier using MFC and HTML. Their bosses have already talked up the idea behind their backs, and then came back to them with a deadline to release the (in-house) software, on a national level. However, they haven't had time to release their first version, and the bosses don't even know what the software can do nor even what it looks like. There is a feeling that the bosses may pat them on the head and run with the software for their own promotions. What should they do?"

12 of 108 comments (clear)

  1. hwah? by yagu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not even able to figure out what question is being asked here.

    • are the programmer upset something they developed in their spare time is now being required and with a deadline? (and what does "in their spare time" mean?, it can have implications over different discussions (IP, etc.))
    • are they upset because now it's going "national", (and what the heck does THAT mean?)

    It sounds to me like they've created something, probably wanted to show the bosses to get some love pats (btw, DON'T DO THAT! HAVE YOU NOT BEEN READING RECENT /. ARTICLES?). And now, they're upset because the bosses want to run with the stuff. That's kind of what happens. Sounds like the "service reps" were a little naive, and the bosses were greedy and stupid.

    (Aside: I used to work in IT, and if service rep people wanted to roll their own, there was little to be done to stop them. But PHB's who were gushing over these home grown "apps" that were successful talking the rest of the company to adopt and deploy ALWAYS ended up costing the company tons of money.... the apps were never scalable, maintainable, compatible with anything else. I'll allow that it's possible but I've seen this kind of scenario many times, and they've NEVER brought positive ROI.

  2. Bargain by cheeseSource · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they're doing it on their own time then they have control over it. They should license it to the company.

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    1. Re:Bargain by 0kComputer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they're doing it on their own time then they have control over it. They should license it to the company.

      Unfortunately a lot of companies have IP clauses in ther contracts w/ employees. For example, I used to work for IBM and they had first dibs on anything I developed, whether it was on company time or not.

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    2. Re:Bargain by Stocktonian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LOL
      That's a good one. Without knowing which country the OP is talking about we don't know exactly what the deal is, but for a lot of countries everything created whilst working for your a company becomes property of the company. Even if it is in your own time. The only exception is when your job has no relation to your "hobby project". For example, writing some software while working as a waiter.
      This clearly isn't the case as the OP states they are writing to make their job easier. It's sad but that's just the way things turned out.

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    3. Re:Bargain by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Unfortunately a lot of companies have IP clauses in ther contracts w/ employees. For example, I used to work for IBM and they had first dibs on anything I developed, whether it was on company time or not.
      In most places, that's unenforceable.

      In that case, a surprisingly large number of people seem to get screwed by unenforceable contractual terms. :-(

      When my employer (after being bought out) tried to stick "all your IP are belong to us" terms into the new contract everyone got, at least half the dev team expressed their negative opinions pretty vocally, and the changes from the previous terms in this area were dropped.

      On the other hand, if the stuff you've developed is on company time, using company resources, or clearly related to your role at the company -- and it sounds like the latter applies here -- then I would expect the employer to have first claim over it, even in a contract that says anything other than those categories is yours.

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  3. Their Time or Company Time? by HighOrbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it is done on their own time and dime, then they should register a copyright and use it to bargin a payraise/promotion.

    If they are doing it on company time, then it probably belongs to the company, and they are probably screwed.

  4. What I would do... by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I developed it on my "own time"- when I wasn't at work- then I would tell the managers that it's my software, and would be happy to liscense it to them, once I'm finished with it and have opportunity to test it. If I developed it "on company time when I was bored anyway"- then I would tell the managers that quality software takes time to develop, and if the deadline is unreasonable, warn them you won't be able to make it. If the manager(s) try to steal the credit, intelligent people will still realize that the managers didn't write the program. Also, if it's good enough to go to the national level, then the managers deserve some credit for recognizing that anyway. What sort of idiots the managers are will affect what will work and what doesn't. Your friends will know beter than me.

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  5. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow...this sounds like so much bullsh*t.

    1. MFC and HTML? WTF? What does that even mean? How are MFC and HTML integrated at all?

    2. "In their spare time?" What does that mean? Their "spare" time at work? Too bad. If you worked on something on your company's time, it is theirs. If you worked on it on your own time, it is yours.

    3. Their managers don't know what the software can do but they're "talking it up" and releasing it across the country? Yeah....that's likely.

    4. How can managers "hijack" your code? You work for them. Anything you do in their supervision is their responsibility. How is that hijacking? They may "run with it" for their own promotions? WTF!!!???? Instead of what? Promoting these guys to vice-presidents? Get real. Do you really think these guys should be revered as gods throughout the company, for writing this? All you will ever get, even as a developer, is a salary, and perhaps, if you're lucky, a "good job". You will NOT be promoted for coding anything.

    Man, I am so tired of these whiny questions..."My boss blah blah blah". It's a job. Grow up, and figure it out.

    1. Re:WTF? by Profane+Motherfucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And let's not forget: "What should they do?"

      How about keep your fucking mouth shut until you actually have something? Sounds like the people who are really talking it up are the very people bitching about other people talking it up.

  6. Just Do It by KevMar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lets assume that they did it at work and are now given a deadline.

    I say go for it.
    Let your boss know that you need to dedicate more time to the project and cannot meet the deadline with the interuptions of your current job.

    At 3/4 of the way finished send an email to your boss and copy HR on it asking to be reclassified with a different job title because the duties of your job have changed so much. (some companies call this a pay raise)

    Never say it is done. We all know that revisions will need to be made and bugs to be fixed. Give it a long beta phase. I bet you will get lots of visibility because of the project. Once it goes to the support phase, you boss will still be clueless and you will be called for everything relating to it.

    Now you have a internal project that the whole company depends on and goes to you for support. It makes your boss look good and gives you a great refference. You get exposure to the develoment process and customer side of programming.

    Its a great resume builder and I am guessing this is just a temp job anyway. So once it feels stable, find another job. Then you can make more money when they contract you to fix, upgrade, redesign, or want to scale it.

    Besides, if they are developers at heart, they would prefer to do the project than their real jobs.

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    1. Re:Just Do It by dubl-u · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Its a great resume builder and I am guessing this is just a temp job anyway. So once it feels stable, find another job. Then you can make more money when they contract you to fix, upgrade, redesign, or want to scale it.

      Yes. These guys shouldn't be focusing much on getting internal corporate credit for it. What they can get out of this is
      • time spent on something that doesn't rot their brains
      • good on-the-job training
      • a slim possibility of getting real programming jobs in the company
      • a resume item that will let them apply for a programming job elsewhere
      • a recommendation letter that will get them seriously considered elsewhere

      But yes, their bosses will probably get a lot of the credit. Traditional corporations can be thought of a feudal empires. Once you're a knight with success in many glorious battles, the nobles will take you seriously. But a customer service rep in the warehouse equates to some peasant cleaning out stables. One day you might be a mighty knight, but for now you're dressed in rags and covered in horse shit, so nobody's going to listen to you. Make your bosses look good, and they can help you get promoted to squire. That's no great shakes either, but at least it's on the way to becoming a knight.

      And yes, I agree that this sucks, but hopefully it sucks less than spending the rest of your life doing customer service.
  7. Re:Let's get the blatantly obvious out of the way. by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree mostly, but I'll part ways in a few places:

    If they want, they can build InHouseApp 1.0, Teh Suck Edition.

    This is a bad, bad idea. Never do anything better than the best you can do under the circumstances. You'll never have the circumstances to do the best you can do period, but at least try.

    I'll give you two reasons why. (1) you're not that kind of person. (2) it will come back to haunt you, either in job interviews, recommendations, or your some day in the future application to work on the team that maintains this when it's a multimillion dollar asset for the company (riiight).

    Much better, in the long term, to take the "You're fired" route, unless you're totally living hand to mouth.

    Finally, in case of termination or threats thereof, make sure they know how to reach their bosses' bosses.

    Here's an interesting social psychology result that was published a few years ago. They had an experimenter describe another person to a subject. The subject was later asked to describe the experimenter and many of the attributes of the person being described were attributed by the subject to the experimenter. It turns out the human mind has a "birds of a feather" wired in: losers associate with losers, slimeballs with slimeballs. So you see, you never, ever build yourself up by tearing another person down.

    At very least, the boss-bosses will conclude you're a loose cannon, and they'll be right.

    So, no. Don't contact the bosses bosses unless there's something going on that is illegal or will get the company into trouble. You never bring your troubles to anybody but your direct manager, and then only reluctantly. Everyone has their own problems and would rather think about them than yours. Managers are looking for solutions, not problems. People are positively blind to problems until a solution appears. So, you gotta solve it man to man, right here at your level. The only circumstances you contact any higher ups is as the cavalry coming over the hill, never as the scout bearing bad news.

    If you can't, and you are asked to do something you aren't willing to do, and you're sure the project has legs, then you resign, giving no cause at all for any dissatisfaction. This may do the trick in itself, but if not, then wait for your boss "Alice" to get in trouble. At that point, "Bob" realizes he's in trouble to. Then you approach Bob, and you do it this way:

    "Bob, I hear the project's in trouble. I feel bad because the whole thing was my idea originally. Alice was gung ho about it, I know, probably too gung ho. I explained this was going to be a problem, but I think she must have thought I was maneuvering for more money. I don't blame her because she was trying to do the right thing by the company, but I felt under the circumstances I couldn't get behind the project as it stood. So we had to part ways -- amicably I hope. But I still feel bad. I'll be glad to come in and discreet look at the situation to see if I can't help you get things back on track. No, no, don't worry about paying me, I've got plenty of paying work, and it'll only be a couple of hours, and I can't promise anything. But I do feel responsible."

    Now, isn't this a much more attractive scenario? Alice's perfidy and incompetence is exposed -- Bob has witnessed it with his own eyes. He also sees you're a decent upstanding chap. Alice has blamed everything on you since you left, but blaming problems on subordinates never cuts the mustard. She's been saying you're a slimeball -- if she only knew. You're not a slimeball, you're much worse: you're a cunning bastard who knows how to discreetly leave knives around where your enemies are most likely to pick them up and cut their own throats.

    And while you can't count on being invited back, if you are you're in the catbird seat. If the project goes down the crapper, it's still Alice's fault. Of course, the project may go on to be a roarin

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