Escapist Calls For Industry Unionization

amitlu writes "In the Friday edition of the Escapist, Joe Blancato challenges the industry to compare itself to skilled labor of the past, and says it's time to organize. From the article: 'If we continue at the rate we're going, we're either going to be worrying about a bunch of college-aged kids with computer science degrees working at McDonald's, too disillusioned to continue in their chosen field or worse, the position they previously held was moved overseas to a more bottom line-friendly locale. For the sake of trying to save money on production costs, why not ship off art production to Romania? Or customer service to India? But to paraphrase the old cliché: First they came for the artists, and I said nothing...'"

Comments

too bad it won't work...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's going to be cheaper to outsource to india then to hire union labor...

Re:too bad it won't work...

[BoomerSooner]

Simple rule of economics. You can price yourself out of a market. Todays software engineers are the autoworkers of yesteryear. Some old coder will look up one day and realize he doesn't have a field to work in anymore. Pay attention to the world around you and ALWAYS continue education and expansion of your experience. Look out coders, someone's moving your cheese.

Yea

[ClownsScareMe]

To curb outsourcing?

Right, because union workers are much more attractive hires.

Re:Yea

[Directrix1]

Oh come on, its obviously worked wonders for GM and Ford.

Re:Yea

[Irish_Samurai]

You really don't understand how unions work do you?

You first get a whole group of similar laborers together to stand together against employers.

Then, when the employers threaten to not hire them, the union goes to the politicians and tells them that their union has enough votes to make or break their election. At this point the union muscles the politician into creating laws prohibiting the outsourcing of this type of labor, or the hiring of non-union labor.

If the union does not have enough votes to change the election itself, it generally does have enough resources to campaign against said politican and create a real problem. How would you like to be labeled as a politician that did nothing to prevent the outsourcing of jobs, and could be argued was pro-outsourcing? Thats all it would take.

For the employer, non-union labor is almost always more attractive, but they can't use them. Check out construction workers and Taxi drivers in New York. Or perhaps you should take a look at Bell South.

Re:Yea

[TykeClone]

For the employer, non-union labor is almost always more attractive, but they can't use them. Check out construction workers and Taxi drivers in New York. Or perhaps you should take a look at Bell South.

That's the difference between right to work states and non-right to work states. Places like New York and Illinois can force you to join a union if you want to work in a union shop.

Missing the point

[mugnyte]

This topic comes around now and then. Sadly, skilled labor is more apt to follow the metaphor that "information wants to be free" than nonskilled labor solidarity slogans.

The knowledge to write good code isn't a secret. If you can get it better elsewhere ("better" being a very subjective and detailed term) then do it!

If programming comes outsourced and completely shuffled around to the lowest labor market, I'd be delighted to see requirements/process achieve this capability. And of course, I'd start to look for a newer industry to keep my standard of living. But in the end, there's no bullying a global market into not trying to get the cheapest price. It's doing it now and examining the quality - with mixed results.

What about the political donations

[heinousjay]

Joining a union is pretty much pledging a portion of your salary to the DNC. I don't need that mess.

Re:What about the political donations

[kingsmedley]

Joining a union is pretty much pledging a portion of your salary to the DNC. I don't need that mess


Sigh. I agree, the use of dues for political contributions is a big problem. But we are seeing more often states passing laws that prohibit unions from using member's dues in this manner without their written consent. I hope to see this continue - simply because they are union members does not mean they are all behind any particular party, and therefore their money should be used to fund causes they don't believe in.

Re:What about the political donations

[dbrutus]

Can I have a pony with that scenario?

The truth is that pathologically dysfunctional governments have created a huge labor market imbalance. Every time some country starts getting decent governance, that labor market imbalance is going to get unwound with lower 1st world wages (or lower increases than otherwise if we work our tails off increasing productivity) and better 3rd world wages until the imbalance is normalized for the skills/experience gap.

A union doesn't help your skills or your experience. It just cranks up that gap so that the balance point is going to be more jobs over there instead of here. The balance is going to happen one way or another. I'd rather not artificially rase the unemployment rate here by promoting unionization.

Re:What about the political donations

[Halfbaked Plan]

What if your wages were higher than they are now even after you had to pay union dues?

No matter HOW much more I then make, I object to a slice of my earnings going to a particular 'wing' of politics that I might not agree with.

It's a moot point though. The AFL/CIO now knows what the outcome was of fucking around with electoral politics instead of sticking to workers' issues. Hopefully the split-off unions will now focus more on what matters to their dues paying membership.

Worst possible idea

[xenocide2]

Assume that the workers should own the means of production. Unions promote the status quo, without actually reaching that ideal. The good news is that the cost of starting up your own company and making games can be incredibly low. Every year several people leave EA and all the other big players to start their own company. This form of socialization I think works much better in the end than a union, who's interests are promoting their own existance and resisting changes to industry practices. What the industry needs more of is cheaper, faster and more equal access to consumers. Coming from a fairly socialist/communistic viewpoint, capitalism and entrepeneurship appear to maximize the social value.

Companies like EA have become large through vertical integration; they have developed retail channels to sell their products in, and it's not easy to get shelf space without EA or someone like EA. The internet helps solve the problem, as Valve is discovering. Whether we end up with a surplus of internet distribution methods for games or whether we get one or two is up to Valve, gamers, and the employees out there with the motivation to do what they want to do for THEMSELVES.

So?

[Kaenneth]

Do Americans have an innate right to a better financial situation than others in the world?

China, Brazil and many other governments are encouraging local software development for their own culture. Pretty soon those cheap tech-support guys in India will be supporting Indians using software written in India. Then the cost of hiring them might rise enough that it will once again be more economical to do things locally. Heck, if you think trying to understand what the Indian guy is saying is hard for you, think how hard your english is for them, all day, every day, for a fraction of your pay.

I already think it's more economical to use local support people in the long run, what with language barriars, and better accountability. Saving $2 on a support call won't matter when you lose too many paying customers. The bottom line of Outsourcing is that the providing companies make a profit, so that instead of paying $20 to an employee for $40 worth of work (if an employee isn't worth more to your company than you are paying, then you are losing money), you're paying $15, minus $5 for the Outsourcer, minus $5 for long distance, so $5 left for the worker for $10 worth of work. So you just lost money. (YMMV)

I also think it's our duty to help other cultures to progress in better ways, think of China, then think of the gas-hogging cars of the 60's/70's. If the worlds oil reserves, and the earths atmosphere is going to last for all of us, we had best help them skip over the Gasoline powered cars in every home phase, and go directly to electric/fuel cell automobiles, and the needed infrastructure.

To me, it boils down to that most americans think america is the best country in the world. I agree, but, I don't think that our Geography, our Genetics, our Religion, or our Language is ideal. What makes us the best is our Ideas, and an Idea costs us nothing to share, except our compedative advantage in other areas. But once they subscribe to our ideas, we win. Like McDonalds in Moscow.

Unions

[Usquebaugh]

There is no way I'll ever join a union.

I was forced into a closed shop when I was a teenager, never will I be a part of that again.

I'm all for a more equitable share of money but you don't get that with a union. All union does if give my money to somebody else who in return tells me I have to stop work!

I think the world needs a radical shake up in the labour market but it will not happen because people unionise. I doubt it will happen in the next fifty years. It will only happen when people grasp the idea of us all being one.

Unions in right-to-work states

[kingsmedley]

That's the difference between right to work states and non-right to work states.


Yes, that's true. But even though right-to-work legislation makes it harder to form a union, it does not by default mean a union cannot be successful. I work in a union shop in a right-to-work state, and the union is still capable of successfully negotiating a new contract. The majority of workers here are members of the union, and the beauty of it is that they were not forced to join. It demonstrates to management just how strong the resolve of the workers is on a given issue.

My point is, a union can still have clout in a right-to-work state. New hires have a choice to join or not, but they are still working under the union contract, and therefore still entitled to its protections and benefits.

Great Idea!

[stevew]

I think this is a marvelous idea, especially since it has worked so well in the past.

Look at how successful the Steal Workers (Unionized) were at saving their jobs!

Whoops - that didn't work did it?

They priced themselves right out of a globally competitive market. The same thing is happening in engineering, IT, and programming now-adays. There are well trained individuals willing to take less money that can do the job.

Uhm - it's called supply and demand. Capital goes to where the lowest cost of production is - simple economics....

Unionization is merely a method for one to stick one's head in the sand and say Hmmm..Hmmm...Hmmm...I can't hear you...

Sheesh!