Four Millennia Old Noodles Found In China

mollten writes "According to BBC News, the world's oldest noodles have been found at the Lajia site in China. Carbon Dating has found the remains to be over 4000 years old." From the article: "Prior to the discovery of noodles at Lajia, the earliest written record of noodles is traced to a book written during the East Han Dynasty sometime between AD 25 and 220, although it remained a subject of debate whether the Chinese, the Italians, or the Arabs invented it first ... Our discovery indicates that noodles were first produced in China."

Comments

Non sequitur

[Elf-friend]

Our discovery indicates that noodles were first produced in China

Although I would tend to agree with that theory, this is badly worded, to the verge of being a logical fallacy. It would be better to say that the discovery "rules out the Italians and Arabs," since those cultures post-date these noodles (assuming the accuracy of the dating, despite radiocarbon's vulnerability to contamination). The discovery does not prove that some earlier culture didn't have noodles first. We can only say we have no evidence for an earlier existence.

No, it's not

[JoeBuck]

Creationists (especially the "young earth" kind that compute the age of the earth by counting up the "begats" in the Bible) claim that carbon dating is inaccurate, because they need it to be inaccurate. They also think, wrongly, that if they can kill carbon dating, they can kill all evidence that the world is older than they say it is.

Also, carbon dating isn't used for anything as old as dinosaur remains, so sorry, tossing out carbon dating won't let you put a younger date on dinosaur fossils.

Re:No, it's not

[Hannah E. Davis]

IANAEBGOA (I am not an evolutionary biologist, geologist or archeologist), but...

For Carbon dating, "the current maximum radiocarbon age limit lies in the range between 58,000 and 62,000 years" (from wikipedia). So... pretty recent, in the grand scheme of things.

Wikipedia also has an article on radiometric dating in general which outlines some types of radiometric dating that work for much older samples.

Also, when we're dealing with dinosaur remains, even IF we're off by hundreds or even thousands of years, it's not going to affect our data very much. We're dealing with such a large time scale that determining roughly when a creature died is often good enough -- usually we just want to know when some species existed compared to some other species, and species are usually pretty good about lasting for at least a few thousand years.

In any case, if we determine that something is... say... roughly 60-65 million years old, that huge error range doesn't change the fact that the evidence blatantly contradicts Young Earth theory ;)

Re:No, it's not (OT)

[DarkProphet]

... and its a funny thing about the 'begats'... each generation (with a couple exceptions) has a somewhat shorter life expectancy, starting at 900-some odd years and gradually declining...

Creationists can't swallow evolution, but 1000 year old men sounds plausable?

By any sane measure (heh, ironic) using the 'begats', the world is only about 15-20 generations older than it was when christ was born, which would make it much YOUNGER than the creationists believe. I say a branch of science aughtta lay that one out on the table ;-)

Then there is the little problem that even with super high-resolution spy satellites, we still haven't found Eden or that big flaming sword that guards its entrance... heh.

And the number 1 least logical thing about this post? I am a protestant christian ;-)

Re:The inventions of noodles was in question?

[MMaestro]

You can chalk this one up to the fact that almost all modern history is written from a Western point of view (read: European and occasionally Middle Eastern outlook).

Who invented gunpowder first? The Chinese (although primarily used for bombs and fireworks.)
Who developed rule by divine right first? The Chinese (see: Chinese Mandate of Heaven.)
Who developed (or adopted) the idea of education as a high priority for all its citizens? The Chinese (see: Confucius.)

Who 'discovered' North and South America first? The 'Indians'/'Native Americans', Inca, Mayans, and others.

Re:Translation of text found with noodles

[Anonymous Coward]

why would you heat a cup of boiling water?

What would be interesting...

[jd]

They (believe) they have the list of ingredients for an ancient cocktail, they're pretty sure they've got the list for ancient beers, wines and meads across the globe, they've managed to identify the ingredients for breads found inside the stomachs of Iron Age people found in peat bogs, and now they've got the recipe for ancient noodles.

I'm sure it's done to some degree, but it would seem to me that there exists an opportunity for archaeologists to tempt people into the field by taking reproductions of these ancient foods to schools. If you want to make archaeology interesting to kids, you need to show them more of an end result than a dry, rather obscure research paper, some lumps of stone and a trowel. Make ancient history something real to them, something they can see, something they can actually relate to, and you're more likely to get them interested in it.

Re:The inventions of noodles was in question?

[typical]

You can chalk this one up to the fact that almost all modern history is written from a Western point of view (read: European and occasionally Middle Eastern outlook).

You mean most *Western* history is written from a Western point of view. Go to China and I suspect that you'll find somewhat different history texts.