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Magnetic Field Thruster Developed

ndverdo writes "There are reports of a working magnetic field engine prototype based on Alfvén waves designed by Austrian scientists. According to the reports fuel savings in rocket engines of 90% could be achieved. Other benefits include enhanced durability due to the nozzle forming outside the engine."

23 of 257 comments (clear)

  1. Its pure babel by JustOK · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just thinking that it woulda saved me a headache ifn I'd noticed it was a babelfish translation earlier.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  2. Perfectly understandable... by suitepotato · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...and it was not "Chinglish"; it is the inevitable byproduct of using a machine without experience or intelligence to translate between two dramatically different languages. Grammatical errors are going to happen.

    This sort of thing has been in the works forever and there's entire university physics and astrophysics texts written on it as well as related disciplines including plasma and ion propulsion. That the superheated reaction products of a rocket are ionized and thus subject to magnetic fields is well known. What is not well known is when we might make some use of this.

    We do know that various superconductors are in that state when subjected to the cryogenic temperatures of liquified oxygen and hydrogen and using the fuel and oxidizer to cool such magnets would be an interesting thing. It would have to be in the line before the liquified reactants reached the nozzle cooling section but if it worked it might well dramatically reduce the size and thus mass of the nozzle and thus the cooling requirements as well. It depends on the tradeoff of field generating power equipment, coils, and so forth.

    Ultimately the basic research being done here will be contributory to the future of space propulsion in its own small way.

    --
    If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
  3. googling for a readable story by slicer622 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The basic idea of how this works is like a railgun, except you're trying to get the gun to move, not the projectile. Two parallel bars, with a third across the two, and massive current going through the system. The third bar experiences terrific force. In this system, the perpendicular bar is actually a conducting gas.

  4. Re:Rockets vs Space Elevator by ishmaelflood · · Score: 2, Informative

    He said, grass-sourly.

    I think you'll find that this effect has a fairly small thrust/mass ratio, so it won't really be suitable for heavy lifters. While we're at it what does efficiency mean in this context? Why don't they quote a specific impulse?

    Anyway, it sounds like a good thing.

  5. It would be simpler... by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 3, Informative

    To learn German than try and untangle that horrible babelfish translation. The funny part was that I read about 4 paragraphs before realizing it was a Babelfish translation, and the whole time wondered what incompetant wrote it :P

    Anyway, here's a better(or at least another) translation done by ImTranslator.

  6. General info for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
  7. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    A better translation:
    More push, less consumption (diepresse.com) 14.10.2005
    Domestic researchers developed a plasma-drive, that should revolutionize space
    flight.

    The idea is 20 years old and comes of Manfred Hettmer, president of the Austrian Mars Society: by means of a plasma-drive being based on "Alfven-waves", the push of a rocket could increased, drastically diminished become simultaneously the fuel consumption, so the idea.

    And actually, according to tests leads the plasma drives to a fuel saving of approximately 90 percent - and that is no trifle: "in satellite the fuel makes up to 50 percent of the weight from because therefrom also the service life depends. Without drive, the exact position not finally can be retained", so project coordinator Andreas Grassauer. This Austrian development could lead therefore to massive variations in future space-projects.

    Base of the development is describes itself a discovery of the physics noble prize winner Hannes Alfven in the year 1942nd Alfven busied among other things with Magnetohydrodynamics(MHD), that the interaction of an electrically leading Fluids with electric and magnetic fields. So for example the expansion of waves in this fluid - today "Alfven-waves" named.

    Now it gives for the first time a technical conversion of the "Alfven-waves", that "a new era in the field of the impulse technology in the universe initiate could", says Grassauer. The most essential feature of the technology would not be attainably would be a ten time inflow velocity increase, that otherwise only through a kernel fusion engine - that (yet) existed -. The measurements were carried out based on a prototype in a vacuum-chamber. Moreover corrosion would be avoided because the push results through the magnetic nozzle outside of the object.

    Of sides of the economy, already interest was manifested in the project, at which next to grass sour and Hettmer of also the experimental physicists Norbert Frischauf that system-engineer are involved Tobias bar flourish as well as Otto Koudelka of the TU Graz. On the 15 October, the plasma-drive is presented for the first time Aeronautic Federation (FAI) in Japan on a congress of that internationally. (APA/jule)

  8. NASA Plasma Propulsion by nigelvthomas · · Score: 4, Informative

    Further implications of magnetic nozzle control can be found http://www.ess.washington.edu/Space/magbeam/NIAC20 05/NIACmagbeam2005.ppt

  9. Re:Yeah but... by cheesybagel · · Score: 4, Informative
    The article seems to be pretty thin in technical detail. But it appears they are talking about an MPD thruster.

    They usually have problems with erosion, not to mention the low thrust-to-weight ratio (which means you cannot get off the Earth's surface with one). Also, they take a lot of juice, so you likely need something like a nuclear reactor or friggin huge solar array (we are talking MW here) to generate enough electricity to power one of these babies.

  10. Alfven waves and velocity by whitehatlurker · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not being familiar with Alfvén waves, I am not sure how the velocity of the exhaust is increased. Could these waves be forced via magnets to form a constriction in the flow, forcing the vented material through a smaller "exhaust port"? (This would be in keeping with the separation of combustion from the nozzles.)

    --
    .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
  11. Another better translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I just wasted 20 minutes of my life. Here is the result:

    The idea is 20 years old and was conceived by Manfred Hettmer, president of the austrian mars society. A new plasma-engine based on "Alfven-waves" could increase the thrust of a rocket while at the same time drastically reducing its fuel consumption. At least that is the theory.

    And in practice, in tests the plasma-engine achieved fuel savings of around 90%, which is no small thing: "A sattellites weight is 50% fuel, because its fuel determines its life time. Without engines the sattellite could not keep it's exact position", says project coordinator Andreas Grassauer.

    The basis of the development is a discovery by nobel prize winning physicist Hannes Alfven in the year 1942. Alfven was researching, among other things, magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), which describes the interaction between an electically conductive fluid with electic and magnetic fields, and also the propagation of waves in the fluid - now known as "Alfven-waves".

    Now, for the first time, there is a technical implementation of the "Alfwen-waves", that, in Grassauer's words, "could be the start of a new era in rocket engine technology". The main feature of the technology is a ten times higher escape speed, that can otherwise only be achieved by a fusion engine, which doesn't exist yet. The measurements were taken on a prototype engine in a vacuum chamber. Also, corrosion of the engine is avoided since the thrust is achieved using the magnetic jet on the outside.

    Economically, there has been some interest in the project already. Besides Grassauer and Hettmer the experimental physicist Norbery Frischauf, system engineer Tobias Bartusch and Otto Koudelka of the TU Graz are also involved. On the 15th of October the plasma-engine will be shown for the first time at the convention of the Internation Aeronatic Federation (FAI) in Japan.

    1. Re:Another better translation by fizze · · Score: 2, Informative

      nice translation, no need to AC, imo.

      a little googling would have yielded this:
      http://www3.inspi.ufl.edu/space/program/abstracts/ 1146.pdf

      text:

      MOA: Magnetic Field Oscillating Amplified Thruster and
      its Application for Nuclear Electric and Thermal Propulsion

      Norbert Frischauf1), Manfred Hettmer2), Andreas Grassauer3), Tobias Bartusch4)
      1)BAH - ESA/ESTEC
      Raiffeisenstrasse 31-33/6/2, 2322 Zwölfaxing, Austria
      Tel:+ 43 1 706 15 99, Fax:+ 43 1 706 15 99, Email: Norbert.Frischauf@cern.ch
      2)Manfred Hettmer Datenverarbeitung
      Palmgasse 10/7, A-1150 Wien, Austria
      Tel:+ 43 676 540 20 69, Email: palm_net@magnet.at
      3)Green Hills Biotechnology
      Dr. Bohrgasse 9/3, A-1090 Wien, Austria
      Email: a.grassauer@greenhillsbiotech.com
      4)Rudolf-Diesel-Technikum Augsburg
      Hainhoferstraße 2,D-86356 Neusäß, Germany
      Email: leaffrog@gmx.de

      Abstract - It was in 1942, when the later Nobel laureate Hannes Alfvén published a letter, stating,
      that oscillating magnetic fields can accelerate ionised matter via magneto hydrodynamic
      interactions in a wave like fashion. These waves were later called "Alfvén waves", in honour of
      their discoverer. Although the evidence for Alfvén's hypothesis came already rather early with the
      observation of certain plasma phenomena, such as being connected with high solar wind Wolf-
      Rayet stars, more than 60 years had to pass by before a technical implementation of Alfvén waves
      for propulsive purposes was proposed for the first time.
      The name of the concept, utilising Alfvén waves to accelerate ionised matter for propulsive
      purposes, is MOA - Magnetic field Oscillating Amplified thruster. Alfvén waves are generated by
      making use of two coils, one being permanently powered and serving also as magnetic nozzle, the
      other one being switched on and off in a cyclic way, deforming the field lines of the overall system.
      It is this deformation that generates Alfvén waves, which are in the next step used to transport and
      compress the propulsive medium, in theory leading to a propulsion system with a much higher
      performance than any other electric propulsion system.
      Based on computer simulations, which we conducted to get a first estimate on the performance of
      the system, MOA is a highly flexible propulsion system, whose performance parameters might
      easily be adapted, by changing the mass flow and/or the power level. As such the system is capable
      to deliver a maximum specific impulse of 13116 s (12.87 mN) at a power level of 11.16 kW, using
      Xe as propellant, but can also be attuned to provide a thrust of 236.5 mN (2411 s) at 6.15 kW of
      power.
      Although a dual-use system, space propulsion is expected to be the prime application for MOA. As
      MOA works best in high-power mode and with ionised matter, utilisation concepts range from a
      high-efficient Nuclear Electric Propulsion System, to an 'afterburner' for Nuclear Thermal
      Propulsion Systems. This wide range of applications makes MOA a unique accessory for any
      nuclear propulsion system to overcome specific concept drawbacks, allowing a full-fledged hybrid
      nuclear propulsion system, with attune able thrust / specific impulse parameters, perfectly suited
      for nearly all types of space missions.

      --
      Powerful is he who overpowers his temptations.
  12. Re:I was just going to say, learn to read by phsdv · · Score: 2, Informative

    here is the orginal link in german of course. But who can't read that ;-) ?

  13. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes - its just a name, "Grassauer"... ;)

  14. Re:Yeah but... by cheesybagel · · Score: 5, Informative
    I found an article abstract on this:

    MOA: Magnetic Field Oscillating Amplified Thruster

    Mr. Norbert Frischauf, Booz Allen Hamilton, Austria
    Mr. Tobias Bartusch, University of Augsburg, Germany
    Dr. Andreas Grassauer, Green Hills Biotechnology, Austria
    Mr. Manfred Hettmer, Manfred Hettmer Datenverarbeitung, Austria

    Abstract - It was in 1942, when the later Nobel laureate Hannes Alfvén published a letter, stating, that oscillating magnetic fields can accelerate ionised matter via magneto hydrodynamic interactions in a wave like fashion. These waves were later called "Alfvén waves", in honour of their discoverer. Although the evidence for Alfvén's hypothesis came already rather early with the observation of certain plasma phenomena, such as being connected with high solar wind Wolf-Rayet stars, more than 60 years had to pass by before a technical implementation of Alfvén waves for propulsive purposes was proposed for the first time.

    The name of the concept, utilising Alfvén waves to accelerate ionised matter for propulsive purposes, is MOA - Magnetic field Oscillating Amplified thruster. Alfvén waves are generated by making use of two coils, one being permanently powered and serving also as magnetic nozzle, the other one being switched on and off in a cyclic way, deforming the field lines of the overall system.

    It is this deformation that generates Alfvén waves, which are in the next step used to transport and compress the propulsive medium, in theory leading to a propulsion system with a much higher performance than any other electric propulsion system.

    Based on computer simulations, which we conducted to get a first estimate on the performance of the system, MOA is a highly flexible propulsion system, whose performance parameters might easily be adapted, by changing the mass flow and/or the power level. As such the system is capable to deliver a maximum specific impulse of 13116 s (12.87 mN) at a power level of 11.16 kW, using Xe as propellant, but can also be attuned to provide a thrust of 236.5 mN (2411 s) at 6.15 kW of power.

    Although a dual-use system, space propulsion is expected to be the prime application for MOA. As MOA works best in high-power mode and with ionised matter, utilisation concepts range from a high-efficient Nuclear Electric Propulsion System, to an 'afterburner' for Nuclear Thermal Propulsion Systems. This wide range of applications makes MOA a unique accessory for any nuclear propulsion system to overcome specific concept drawbacks, allowing a full-fledged hybrid nuclear propulsion system, with attune able thrust / specific impulse parameters, perfectly suited for nearly all types of space missions.

    This article will be presented on Friday, October 21 2005, 08h30m at the 56th International Astronautical Congress in Fukuoka, Japan.

  15. Re:Did They interview Yoda? by mr_zorg · · Score: 3, Informative

    Pay attention to the URL. It's been babelfish'd from German... Though it would be nice if the summary warned you about that. It threw me for a loop at first too.

  16. Re:what about NERVA? by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Informative
    Though the German author says only a nuclear fusion (Kernfusionstriebwerk) engine could achieve the exhaust gas speeds of this plasma mhd thang, I think a fission engine (uber-NERVA) might suffice.
    No purely thermal system can achieve these exhaust velocities. There are no materials that can withstand the temperatures.

    These guys have come up with a way to accellerate a plasma with just magnetic fields: no electrodes need be exposed to the plasma.
    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  17. Breakthroughs are a dime a dozen nowadays by heroine · · Score: 2, Informative

    Of all the millions of electric propulsion breakthroughs you can read about on the internet, the most promising one is magnetoplasmadynamic propulsion because it's simple, it can use plentiful hydrogen instead of expensive Xenon, and it makes enough thrust to actually do something useful.

    Unfortunately, no electric propulsion breakthrough has done a thing for getting off of Earth. They're all for maneuvering in space and they're all roughly the same in terms of benefit.

  18. Re:Come On Editors by brianerst · · Score: 2, Informative
    Maybe because a lot of us are stuck behind firewalls and NATs that don't allow us to hit port 8090? Coral has been claiming they'll move to port 80 for a long time now - the 8090 was supposedly just something they used during beta testing. How hard can it be to change the port? If you're going to use a cahce, use Mirrordot - it's plain old port 80.

    Firefox users can just install the Coral Cache extension and save the bother of typing ".nyud.net:8090" to the URL and the obligatory "why not use Coral?!?!" reply to every freaking article. They can then stop bitching about the editors not using the Coral cache. (My assumption being here that the people who complain loudest about Coral tend not to be IE users. My apologies to any Opera/Coral fanatics out there.)

    Finally, for every website that is crushed by the Slashdot effect, there is another that is loving the boost to its ad revenues from the avalanche. (Again, Firefox users like myself who use Adblock or Mirrordot are just leeches and probably should be banned from the web... >g)

  19. Re:BabbleFish by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Informative

    And "up with this I shall not put" is English with correct English grammar, lampooned by Churchill. Maybe the Fish is on to something...

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    --
    make install -not war

  20. Re:Yeah but the article is inacurate. by Decker-Mage · · Score: 2, Informative
    Most of the weight of a reactor are in the ancillary components and shielding. In space if you mount the reactor on a long boom you need only shield the aft end at the top of the boom, just before the working capsule (cargo, passengers, etc.). Also, I don't think you'll be wanting to be using a pressurized, light-water reactor design in space. Not a good idea at all! I'd be thinking more along the lines of the liquid sodium (metal) designs we started playing with back in the '60's. We have much better materials for the plumbing now so corrosion in that part of the design could be significantly minimimuzed. Indeed, using a ceramic fuel element design, you'd eliminate fuel cell corrosion entirely. I wonder if Corning wouldn't mind a rather large contract to test using their diamond deposition process for lining the the other components. That's just a few issues off the top of my head that would be easy to address.

    Actually, I'd be thinking more along the lines of using plutonium or duterium fuel cell batteries rather than an actual reactor although a good reactor design gives a much higher power density and is (usually) easier to refuel.

    --
    "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
  21. 90% is conservative by Jump · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nice article. I recall that you can drive these waves about 4 times faster than sound waves. Since kinetic energy goes like velocity to the square, this means up to 16 times more power (in theory). So this means in theory you can save 1/16 of the fuell (assuming the same kind of fuel for normal and magnetic propulsion), and possibly even more because you need less energy to drive the lighter rocket. Saving only 90% seems to be a conservative estimate. BTW, please do also provide links to the original article if you use babelfish. Most people prefer to read the original if they can.