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Interview with Tony 'Say No to Windows' Bove

An anonymous reader writes "XYZ has an interview with Tony Bove, author of the upcoming book, "Just Say No to Microsoft". From the article: 'With this book Bove intends to help readers rid Microsoft from their life- this is easier said that done, but it is certainly possible. The book goes on to list alternatives to the Microsoft programs on which people have become dependent and probably think they cannot give up.'"

21 of 412 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Neil+Blender · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From experience, any thing more than 11 steps is not worth it!

    And from the average user's perspective, anything more than 0 steps is too many.

  2. adbsurd by CDPatten · · Score: 3, Insightful

    MS and Windows is not all Bad. Not to mention how much software is avaialable for special industry only on windows not linux or macs.

    Most of us can't, and don't really want to "just say no". For example I have clients that are lawyers and doctors that are very happy with their windows software.
      Stuff that isn't available in linux. The just say no or linux only group always propose stuff for you to get by without ms, but some of us need to do more then use word and excel, or don't want some custom jerry rigged solution.

    1. Re:adbsurd by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >Most of us can't...

      I think you'll find the point is that most of us CAN. "Most people" use Word to write lists, and if the list needs 2 columns they use Excel. It doesn't have to be that way.

      And it's not just about linux, his favourite OS is Mac OS X.

      If you *need* MS, you probably made a poor decision somewhere along the line. If you have a free choice but choose to stick with MS that's fair enough. There's nothing about being a doctor or lawyer that intrinsically requires a MS operating system or software.

    2. Re:adbsurd by nurhussein · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then the book is not for you.

      It's for those of us who are frustrated with living in MS-land and unhappy with Windows and how Windows forces it's way of operating on you (don't the MS apologists in the audience flame me with "but it's supposed to be easier/better/shinier", I just don't like Windows and I have a right not to), yet because of the dependency chain that applications require you to use on top of Windows, you're stuck with an OS you don't like. I know a list of alternative applications that don't require Windows would come in handy for people who want to switch away from Windows and its inherent problems.

      If you find that the alternatives aren't good enough or aren't up to your standards, fine, stick with Windows. But in a world where Microsoft and the IT industry almost makes it an obligation for every computer user to pay tribute to the mighty monopoly with their wallet and their obedience, it's refreshing to know there's something to help us get out of it.

  3. the one thing you won't find in his review by everphilski · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...a replacement for Microsoft Exchange. His only mention is how "...Microsoft designs its software products -- especially Outlook and Exchange -- to lock people into using it...". Until a good replacement is found for Exchange you will have a hard time prying it from the cold, dead hands of thousands of businesses worldwide...

    (And I work in a shop where most of us do dev work on linux boxes... but we all have windows partitions for Exchange. So damn handy for scheduling meetings, knowing who is in and who is out of town...)

    -everphilski-

  4. Its not about riding Microsoft by Daveznet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I dont believe its about riding of Microsoft, I believe its about giving a fair chance for alternatives. Only with competition will the end user benefit. If Microsoft isnt the one that everyone is supposed to hate it would have been another company. I am not a fan of Microsoft either as I do NOT run any windows software at home, but it was because of Microsoft's so called "crappy software" that pushed the open source community to create these great alternatives such as openoffice.org, linux etc ...

    --
    GL HF!
  5. 2 Problems by b0r1s · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1) It assumes there's a good reason for people to abandon MS. Security is close, but as we've seen with recent holes in Firefox/Mozilla, as other tools get popular, their security will come under attack, too. The price, perhaps, but 'free' versions of anything lack meaningful support, which kills it for a significant number of end users. Therefore, if there were a convincing reason for everyone to change (other than personal bias), this would be much more meaningful.

    2) It assumes that it's the MS programs holding people back, when many desktops are tied because of third party software. For example, in my every-day job, I support dozens of workstations with Macromedia and Adobe software installed - neither of these run natively under Linux, and they run horribly under emulation. Yes, you can find replacement photo editors, but not really replacement video editors that are on par with After Effects, or replacements for Flash that have 95%+ installation base.

    --
    Mooniacs for iOS and Android
    1. Re:2 Problems by stlhawkeye · · Score: 5, Insightful
      2) It assumes that it's the MS programs holding people back, when many desktops are tied because of third party software. For example, in my every-day job, I support dozens of workstations with Macromedia and Adobe software installed - neither of these run natively under Linux, and they run horribly under emulation. Yes, you can find replacement photo editors, but not really replacement video editors that are on par with After Effects, or replacements for Flash that have 95%+ installation base.

      Exactly. Ever try to hire a graphics artist and tell him, "by the way, you'll be using GIMP on our Fedora Core 3 installation"? It's harder than it sounds. Yes, you can all rain down here with THOUSANDS of examples of YOU and YOUR FRIENDS and people YOU KNOW who not only can use GIMP but PREFER it to expensive alternatives. If the sample of Slashdot and its immediate social clique were the norm, we'd live in a pseudosocialist utopia in which all of us are gainfully employed and paid a hundred thousand dollars to work 30 hour weeks developing beautiful open source software that we give away and nobody buys, and all music and entertainment is produced through the honest labor of talented people upon whom we benevolently bestow voluntary payments for their work, and whose labors of love are distributed for free through the software channels that we were paid lots of money to develop. Oh, and Bush isn't president. And global warming stopped. And we all ride bikes to our jobs. And there's no McDonald's or suburbs. And soda is free. So is beer. I could go on, but I moved into the TrollZone about 5 minutes ago.

      --
      "I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
    2. Re:2 Problems by cbiffle · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Security is close, but as we've seen with recent holes in Firefox/Mozilla, as other tools get popular, their security will come under attack, too.


      I'm not particularly anti-Microsoft, though I choose not to use it for myself. However, I had to take issue with this, as I've been hearing this statement more and more lately.

      There is such a thing as designing for security. Postfix is an excellent example of this; whatever your feelings on DJB, djbdns and qmail are also good examples. These three packages are rapidly growing in popularity, without showing the same security problems as the tools they replace (namely, sendmail and BIND). This is because (filesystem hierarchy restrictions aside) they are quite simply designed better.

      Firefox, and Mozilla in general, was not designed with security in mind in the same way as Postfix. So, yes, it will show some correlation between popularity and exploits. However, even if IE and Firefox achieve equal popularity, I doubt Firefox will show the same consistently poor long-term track record as IE, for three main reasons.

      1. IE has at least one designed-in security hole, ActiveX. Signed code is not a security mechanism, it's an authentication mechanism, and a user-driven one at that; sandboxing would be better.

      2. Members (past and present) of the IE team have acknowleged that the IE codebase has grown to the point that it's difficult to maintain and patch. This suggests a poor initial design (compare Postfix's heavily compartmentalized code), but also explains some of the security problems of late.

      3. IE is not written with Least-Privileges in mind. I can drop Firefox on the desktop without admin rights and use it, confident that an exploit in Firefox cannot nuke my machine (assuming the underlying OS is not also exploited). I cannot be so confident about IE, tied into the OS as it is. Too many IE bugs have allowed SYSTEM-level privilege escalation on NT.

      Now, Firefox may well grow into problem #2, but I think #1 and #3 are unlikely.

      End rant.
  6. He has a point.... by Helpadingoatemybaby · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In a thousand years, the current trend towards open software will be regarded just as the Rennaisance is today. Minds opened, components that will form the basis of all communications were begun, no different than painters sharing the idea of perspective.

    Which will make being enslaved in the corporate underground salt mines that much more pleasant.

    --

    The baby's fine -- please stop sending business cards.

  7. Immature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can understand if you prefer Linux to Windows or don't like Word or something (I **hate** Powerpoint), but the whole not using any Microsoft products for the sake of feeling alternative/rebellious is just really immature and annoying. Microsoft makes a lot of good software.

  8. Not more political motivations! by ficken · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really wish that the Linux community wouldn't sink down to the level that Microsoft has reached. Releasing subjective papers on what works and what doesn't will not do anything for people except cause political arguments. Since most TCO and benchmark data is skewed one way or another, releasing whitepapers and books becomes irrelevant. Most budget managers and IT managers realize this. The people in charge (given that they know what they are doing) researches data from other companies. They ask questions like it worked for Company A so could it work for us? They do not look at opinions and unreliable sources. IMHO, this is one reason why Linux has not made it to the desktop - many companies are scared to move their user base over to a radically different interface. Not many companies have made the move, so everyone else is scared to jump first. They are not scared to move their servers over, since only a small handful of people interface with it - provided the services retain a high level of reliability.

    --
    Victory shall be mine!
  9. Isn't the purpose of computers... by kinglink · · Score: 3, Insightful

    to make our lives easier? I mean Linux has come around to make it easier for user to work to an extent (I still don't see anything as friendly to computer newbies on the linux systems as windows, but it is getting closer and closer), but to go 100 percent away from Microsoft is almost unrealistic for most people. Remember most people don't even know that you can network iTunes for playback with out buying the songs. Nor do they know what a MKV is, what the different of an OGM and XVID is, or what TCP/IP settings are needed to use a VPN (the last one puzzled me for a couple days.. turned out I was given the wrong IP... from a tech guy)

    Microsoft might be a monolpolistic company but for many people it makes their lives easier. I'd love it if they didn't have the same business practices as they currently do but let's not make our lives more inconvient.

    This interview sounds like another ranting guy. But yes I don't support Microsoft wholy (I got my Windows heavily discounted from school, I don't use Microsoft Office at home (At work we get it through Compaq, so it's already paid for) but going insanely against them will not help save anyone. Apple would love to step up and set themselves up as the next Microsoft. I'm sure their a little piss with what Microsoft did (with grabbing Apple's own Windows style technology, that they in turn took from Xerox who took it from their programmer who created it), and if they could trade places they would love to be the next giant, and with their love of "Apple approved" hardware, I'm sure could find some ways to close off competition. (remember if Apple was in charge, ATI and NVIDIA wouldn't compete like they do now, each trying to make radical strives, nor would there be any other sound cards except for the one or two companies apple approves of)

    Besides all his problems with Microsoft seem to stem from either hatred, or the fact that people who use Windows are stupid. (claiming never to get a virus on a mac isn't a small miracle, I never get virii on PCs... Why? Because I do the same shit he does. I have a anti virus program that has been completely dorment since installation, except when I actually test it, and it performs perfectly then)

    Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see why this is "news", when a guy writes a book or something about this stuff, let's hear info about book, not his ramblings..

    And my one quote from him?

    But if there is a monopoly, let's get out the rocket launchers and take our shots, please!

    advocating wholesale violence... tsk tsk.

  10. sub-title: how to spend more money by defile · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Eliminating Microsoft is a good way of increasing your computer costs.

    It might be hard to see from the end user perspective, but it's crystal clear from a developer perspective. But don't take my word for it, take Joel's:

    I'd love to have a Mac version and a Linux version, but they are not good uses of limited resources. Every dollar I invest in CityDesk Windows will earn me 20 times as many sales as a dollar invested in a hypothetical Mac version. Even if you assume that Mac has a higher percentage of creative and home users, I'm still going to sell a heck of a lot more copies on Windows than I could on Mac. And that means that to do a Mac version, the cost had better be under 10% of the cost of a Windows version. Unfortunately, that's nowhere near true for CityDesk. We benefit from using libraries that are freely available on Windows (like the Jet multiuser ACID database engine and the DHTML edit control) for which there are no equivalents on the Macintosh. So if anything, a Mac port would cost more than the original Windows version. Until somebody does something about this fundamental economic truth, it's hard to justify Mac versions from a business perspective. (Incidentally, I have said time and time again, if Apple wants to save the Mac, they have to change this equation.)
    And don't get me started about Linux. I don't know of anyone making money off of Linux desktop software, and without making money, I can't pay programmers and rent and buy computers and T1s. Despite romantic rhetoric, I really do need to pay the rent, so for now, you're going to have to rely on college kids and the occasional charitable big company for your Linux software.

    If someone's going to do a new application, it's much more likely to be a Windows application. If someone's going to offer technical support services, they're much more likely to focus on Windows support. If someone's going to make hardware, they're much more likely to focus on getting Windows supported first.

    This all means if you're not using Windows, you're going to pay for it with time or money.

    (Read the whole article at http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog00000000 51.html)

    1. Re:sub-title: how to spend more money by mcrbids · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If someone's going to do a new application, it's much more likely to be a Windows application.

      I disagree. Look further up the food chain - if somebody's going to do a new application, it's much more likely to be in an environment where the OS is irrelevant.

      Who wants to limit their marketplace to the Windows desktop, when there are so many mobile devices out there now?

      Or, put it like this: What OMFG killer appz have you seen in the last 5-10 years that have been Windows only? Games are moving to gaming consoles, Word Processing is moving with surprising rapidity to OpenDocument, and most all the new cool stuff (Google, Ebay, Yahoo, Amazon, etc) is web-based! (or, at least, is open-protocol)

      If someone's going to offer technical support services, they're much more likely to focus on Windows support.

      Hmmm. Partly because it needs so *much* support just to stay functional? Obviously, that's where the money is...

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  11. Re:the War... by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They act like drug dealers. They let people copy their software "illegally" for years until it became almost ubiquitous. Then they cracked down after everyone was already "addicted" to make huge profits.

  12. What about Microsoft Project? by tyates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft Project is the most widely used project management software that corporations use, and it's only available for one platform: Microsoft Windows. Not OSX, Not Linux, Not BSD, Not Sun, Not Palm, Not Amiga, etc. This means that anybody who manages work in a company *has* to use Windows. And yes, I know that Microsoft Project actually sucks for complex project management, and that there are better Project Management packages out there, but most of them only work for Windows also and they don't have the base or support that Microsoft has. Until that lock is broken, its going to be very hard for companies to switch.

    --
    Tristan Yates
  13. Of course there isn't by brunes69 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There isn't a "drop-in" replacement for exchange because the protocols are binary and not documented.

    If you will be a little less lazy, there are Outlook plugins for both Kolab and OpenExchange that will let your users use the same client while you replace the server, they should not notice anything different at all.

    But there is no way you are ever going to just replace the server and do nothing else. It is impossible - that is why the Outlook/Exchange combo is so horrible, it is not compatible with anything.

  14. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Neil+Blender · · Score: 3, Insightful

    too fragging lazy

    Those are the operative words. And please note, I said 'average user' meaning the general public. By the way, I have been using linux as my main desktop since the days when hanging yourself sometimes seemed like a better option than using linux.

  15. Doctors, Lawyers and Windows by Petersko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's nothing about being a doctor or lawyer that intrinsically requires a MS operating system or software.

    You're right to a point. Being a doctor or lawyer does not mean you need MS software.

    But if you want to use one of the many of industry-specific, specialized software libraries, you might just have to run Windows.

  16. Educating people about OS choice by Randall311 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Before I get flamed on this, I just wanna point out that there is a big difference between being an advocate and being a fanatic against Microsoft. Now you want to tell people not to use MS because the corporation is a pig... ok fine. I can agree that Windows is a poor operating system because of all the patches and the fact that it is based off of DOS, instead of a rock solid, open solution like *nix. That said, do you really expect your average user that "Just uses MS Word to edit lists, or if the list has two colums, use MS Excel" to have any clue about using Linux? Granted that in recent months the Linux world has gotten mush easier to handle, for example Ubuntu 5.10 installs like a dream, with 3D acceleration supported out of the box! But to your average user in general, having config scripts everywhere is just not reasonable. Linux is not ready for the masses. Sorry. Not yet anyway. On the other hand you have Mac OS X, which IMO is a much more viable, and even preferred solution. "It just works" is so true. When you have the prettiest looking user interface of all time, and you build your own hardware (don't have to worry about drivers) and write your own software to work on it, not to mention a rock solid *nix base that's easy to use, then you have the perfect computing solution. Everybody is capable of running a Mac, and it has the perfect mix of *nix to make the geeks happy, and eye candy and functionallity to make anyone happy. OS X is your winner.