Nintendo DS Trojan Creator Apologizes

Mike wrote to mention an apology from the creator of the DS Trojan. From the article: "I won't release any more of this crap for DS and I don't think parts of this trojan or the idea itself will emerge in future homebrew releases. The point is probably clear. Do not run any form of untrusted code that just suddenly appears without any name."

Comments

A term that I coined to describe idiot users.

[kdark1701]

'Darwinian Computing'

Old news...

[DarkYoshi]

I read this on a forum several days ago.

Re:Old news...

[Hellad]

and I am sure that we all read that same forum...

Re:Old news...

[bleaknik]

hence my sig.

Argh

[pclminion]

Now this is way offtopic, I know, but it irks me to hell. Please don't abuse the concept of Darwinism.

Just because an idiot's computer explodes doesn't prevent him/her from having children who are also idiots.

Similarly, it's in vogue on Fark to call Darwin on some moron who kills himself in a ridiculous fashion. Ha ha, except that if said moron has already begotten a few children, then Darwin didn't win in that case, did he?

It's only Darwinism if you're killed before you have a chance to produce offspring. "78 year old dies in fiery jet ski accident" inevitably leads to cries of "Darwin wins again!" And yet this 78 year old has 9 grandchildren. My God, people cannot grasp this concept.

Re:Argh

[Momoru]

Well to further that off-topic point, intelligence or common sense is not something that is passed through genes, a smart parent has no guarantee of a smart child and an idiot parent may not get an idiot child. And even if that were the case, the other mate could be the intelligent one. But in the end, I don't think anyone is trying to make a scientific point, they are just trying to be funny. Much like how everyone ironically misuses the word ironic.

Re:Argh

[TheCRAIGGERS]

That's because most of the people on Slashdot are in the same category as the 9 grandchildren.

Re:Argh

[AuMatar]

Its a Darwin award as well if they manage to destroy their reproductive organs, not just die. I'd also say it counts if they died while still in child making eyars, even if they have 1-2 kids- they could still have had more, by their death their spawn is lessened.

Re:Argh

[Somegeek]

Dude, relax. I think you are too touchy on the subject and are assuming the worst when you see the word.

Look at it as in we now have a computing environment (including idiot users) that is capable of weeding out the weaker computers; those that aren't strong enough to deal with the emerging threats while being manipulated by their users. If a species (brand/model) evolves to meet the new challenges (Trojans in this case) and still successfully competes with other systems in the marketplace, it will continue and prosper and more of those systems will be born (manufactured) with the new traits.

If a system is flawed in that its architecture makes it susceptible to threats and can't evolve, it will die; (individually from the Trojans in this case), and as a species (due to failure in the marketplace). Who would want to buy a system that might be destroyed by a passing Trojan when there were better options?

If a species (Nintendo) dies in the marketplace and no new ones are built because it could not evolve to meet new threats, while other species (PSn, XBox) survive and multiply because they did evolve to meet the new threats, doesn't that sound Darwinian?

Regarding your other complaint about the misuse of the term Darwinism, I would be willing to argue that an evolved trait to care for your young after they are born and thus the need for continued survival of the parents could be crucial to the development of a species. For example, I may pass on great genes to my offspring, but if I don't survive to rear them and teach them they won't survive on their own and those genes aren't going anywhere. Another individual that has genes that allow him to survive long enough to raise and train his offspring will have those genes continue to a third generation.

I believe you are being far too strict in your interpretation of the concept. But then again, IANAB.

Re:Argh

[yhnmzw]

We can at least take others' foolish deaths as examples of bad ideas.

DarkFader is a cocksucker

[Anonymous Coward]

INSIGHTFUL!!

Security about everything that is portable...

[alexandreracine]

Do portables have some protection?

-Would you like to execute 99 times this external unknown command that could destroy your portable?

There was an article some time ago about a cell phones that could be infected by other phones. There was a popup every 5 seconds unless the person would say "yes" or walk away. Why are there no threshholds? Why do I have to think about everything in here? ;)

Re:Security about everything that is portable...

[Suddenly_Dead]

This isn't that huge a problem. To execute, one needs to run it with a Passme / Wifime / Flashme, all of which most people would most likely not use, only those interesting in ze homebrew would.

Narrowing it more is indeed a "security feature" included in Flashme, the modified DS firmware that many or even most people with interest in homebrewed stuff use. The flashme adds a small failsafe to the beginning of the firmware that can not be overwritten without the person actually sticking some metal into a hole on the back of the DS (under the battery cover) to short some contact thingie. If a person's DS is "bricked", they simply have to put Flashme on their cart, put it in the DS, and let the failsafe boot it.

oh thank goodness.

[JVert]

He is sorry. Good news!

Whew! Dodged that bullet aye?

Re:Just so you know.

[Guppy06]

"I still recommend that my clients purchase a Nintendo DS"

"Clients?" So you contract your entertainment-reccomending skills out for a living, or are you just a GameWhore employee who thinks he's a little more important than he really is?

Re:Just so you know.

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a very highly-regarded man. When people need to buy something, they come to me. If a person has purchased an item such as a PSP that is not recommended, I use that person as an example of why purchasing items I don't recommend is bad.

As far as I can recall, nobody has ever been upset or disappointment with my entertainment recommendations, whether proactive or reactive.

Why Not Link to the Original SIte

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot newsposters, please understand that the correct site for this news/apology was http://darkfader.net/ and not the ContentHoldings.com/Freepsp scam machine, i myself found the newsposted on the Nintendo DS news site http://nintendo-ds.dcemu.co.uk/ / http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t= 12308 on the 13th and the site you linked copied the news off them. But anyways what Darkfader did was terrible and if anyone had their DS Bricked then according to the site i linked to above their is a site who repair dead Nintendo DS consoles heres the link http://www.aheadgames.com/ Lets hope this never happens again

Re:Just so you know.

[FinestLittleSpace]

Can you REALLY be born as that much of a cock?

Re:Just so you know.

[Anonymous Coward]

It appears you have been trolled.

Re:Darwinia

[vertinox]

Darwinia would make a great game for the DS!

Oh wait... You meant Darwinian...

Re:Just so you know.

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing worse than a troll is an ignorant fool who falls for it.

next console battleground?

[Somegeek]

What if this becomes the next battleground for console makers?

What if MS realizes that they can write and untraceably release a Trojan that would kill Playstations? Who would stick to a certain console brand if it kept getting infected after every few weeks of online play and you had to keep exchanging it for a new one? How long could Sony stay in business in such a situation?

If you were in a multi-billion dollar battle how far would you go to win?

Re:next console battleground?

[KDR_11k]

That virus would be pointless as most PS2s die of disk read errors much earlier. People still keep buying Sony hardware.

Re:next console battleground?

[Castar]

There would be too much risk in committing a crime like that. The engineers who wrote the code would have to be kept quiet, and everyone who knew about it. If it was discovered, it would lead to legal action and public hatred for the company.

Plus in order to write code like that, you'd have to have access to a dev kit for the competition, which are carefully controlled by the console manufacturers.

Re:next console battleground?

[mink]

Funny thing is, my version 2 PS2 still reads all media but has some kind of lock up when I try to play The Zone of Enders. My version 4 and 9 PS2 units are either incapable of reading any media or can not read DVD media. I am working on re-calibrating them if I can (I do electronics work and have an Oscope.).

Weird

[Gogo0]

It is kind of funny that the guy who released this trojan for the DS is the same guy that has done some of the most important DS hacking in the homebrew scene.

Most notably:
He made the first PassMe to run homebrew code in DS mode.
He hacked and released the GBAMP firmware to allow .nds files to be run from a flash card.

This guy has done a HUGE amount of work and made homebrew (DSLinux, Moonshell, touchscreen ports of Doom, Heretic, etc) possible on the DS. He is easily the all-around most important person in the scene.

Re:Just so you know.

[Anonymous Coward]

1. I agree with your comment completely.

2. Your post is pure flamebait, and I would mod you down if I had points today. That wouldn't have been the case if you had mentioned even just ONE insightful, informative, or funny thing in your post, but you didn't.

Phew!

[KDR_11k]

So I wasn't the only one dorky enough to think of Darwinia when he said that...

Darwinia would need a bit of tweaking to the controls if you want it to work on the DS and the graphics would take a hit but it should be possible. Well, if Nintendo handed SDKs to indie devs, that is. They suggest on their developer site that they won't even sell you an SDK unless you are a company of importance.

Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

I think we should cut this guy some slack. The amount of good he's done for the DS overshadows the amount of evil he's done. I think it was a proof-of-concept that unwittingly got out-of-hand. Let's just put this behind us and pretend it never happened.

*sigh*

[Wraithfighter]

This is the argument hackers use to claim the high ground: "I only did this to show everyone to be careful!" And yet, if it weren't for the trojan makers and hackers, we wouldn't need so much security. You make malicious code and release it into the web, YOU are responsible. Even if its obvious that the users shouldn't download the code, the problem wouldn't exist were it not for you.

Re:*sigh*

[xenocide2]

Ironically, this is the same guy who made it possible for us to run ANYTHING on the DS at all! I suspect this was motivated by a disdain for unethical uses of his original software, that allows one to run both commercial games and "homebrewn" demos. This nonsense about signatures doesn't really solve the problem. So some guy signs his code; do you trust him?

If anything, this demonstrates the in-viability of the passMe mechanism and flashable firmwares.

Re:*sigh*

[Dan Farina]

At the same time, better this than something that tries to turn every DS into a spam-relay, right?

You may think the hacker ethic is a fallacy, but at the same time they do (probably) the least damage. At worst, they can take up a lot of bandwidth should a worm get out of their control. (Pretty bad, but better than opening up tons of backdoors to make zombie nets)

Re:Just so you know.

[earthbound kid]

I would say the worst thing is not understanding the meaning of the word "crock."

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[tepples]

You're permanently banned from the homebrew community.

Would you rather have no homebrew community at all?

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's amazing how much your attitude has changed! Why were things different back when this irc log was recorded?

  [18:28] DS wrote this bugger
  [18:28] i mean DF
  [18:28] natriumAw: explain
  [18:28] he doesn't get a ban
  [18:28] http://www.64scener.com/
  [18:28] what gives?
  [18:28] Chuck`: you misunderstand.
  [18:28] are you saying if i write my own damn virus and release it with that
  [18:28] Chuck`: what'd be cause for ban would be releasing legit homebrew roms as bricks.

  [18:28] Chuck`: what darkfader did only targets asshole warezers. ...
  [18:30] Eh, they were warned.
  [18:32] Chuck`: If they steal from us, we steal from them.
  [18:32] Chuck`: Fair's fair.

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a better paste of the irc logs:

[18:28] [Chuck`] DS wrote this bugger
[18:28] [Chuck`] i mean DF
[18:28] [StoneCybh] natriumAw: explain
[18:28] [Chuck`] he doesn't get a ban
[18:28] [natriumAw] http://www.64scener.com/
[18:28] [Chuck`] what gives?
[18:28] [StoneCybh] Chuck`: you misunderstand.
[18:28] [Chuck`] are you saying if i write my own damn virus and release it with that
[18:28] [StoneCybh] Chuck`: what'd be cause for ban would be releasing legit homebrew roms as bricks.
[18:28] [Chuck`] i get off the hook?
[18:28] [StoneCybh] Chuck`: what darkfader did only targets asshole warezers.
[18:28] [Chuck`] then why did MithosAFK get his ds bricked?
[18:29] [Chuck`] he's not an asshole or a warezer
[18:29] [natriumAw] StoneCybh, read the newspost on that site
[18:29] [Headspin] dark fader can destroy us all.. his power is strong... but the more n00bie jedi's the better the bricks... and the better the bricks.. well you know the rest
[18:29] [Chuck`] this is out of hand
[18:29] [DarkFader] I really won't update the flashme site with it or anything
[18:29] [Chuck`] i was joking too
[18:29] * MithosAFK did not scroll up and read the warning. just wasfriendly to test apps.
[18:29] [cReDiAr] Chuck` well if you don't follow the talk :] and just download the file
[18:29] [Chuck`] well theres a certain amount of trust that we have in each other here
[18:29] [Chuck`] DF just shattered it
[18:30] [Chuck`] i hate being cynical
[18:30] [StoneCybh] Eh, they were warned.
[18:30] [Ixthus_] But some warez kiddy can steal a nick and get in here asking us to test his new DS app
[18:30] [natriumAw] MithosAFK, ouch
[18:31] [natriumAw] Ixthus_, true :(
[18:31] [Headspin] look, the PSP scene had a bricker ages ago.. were just keeping up with the scene
[18:31] [Ixthus_] oh well
[18:31] [DarkFader] you wouldn't just click on http://www.notworksafe.com/ or anything if you are in the wrong environment either
[18:31] [Ixthus_] lol Headspin
[18:31] * Ki11er7 (~death@66.103.251.59) has left #dsdev
[18:31] [natriumAw] hahaha
[18:31] [DarkFader] ppl click too fast
[18:31] [Chuck`] i think the whole community would be far better off if DF would not have written it
[18:31] [StoneCybh] Chuck`: yes, we heard you the last several times.
[18:31] [Ixthus_] huhu

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[dovoto]

sorry stone, but some things you just have to chuckle at...

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[stonecypher]

I know these things are difficult for anonymous cowards. Let me explain.

1) I didn't know the full extent of what was going on back then. I was under the impression it was a software rollback, and even then I was pretty pissed.

2) We don't act on our own. I was waiting until I talked to other ops before I acted. Luckily, I didn't have to; someone else did. That said, if I banned a regular without talking to the channel owner, I would have been a giant asshole. What I did was to act carefully.

I do remain relatively amused how badly thieves react to the tool. Nonetheless, if you bother to read what I said, I was trying to get DarkFader to release a tool to identify the bad rom. Did you bother to think about why, or who it was that reported these to the antivirus companies?

Don't bother replying if you're too much of a coward to admit who you are. I suspect your name starts with an N and ends with a D, though.

You are very wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to tell you. Most of the trogens/viruses and so on have been relatively harmless.
If the users and creators of computing don't start taking things seriously, we'll end up with a disaster.
If someone actually spent the time to make a well-crafted virus to do much damage as possible the results would be shocking.

People just don't get it. The viruses you have come in contact with have all been script kiddie bordem or whitehats.
Any intelligent person with good coding skills has the ability to unleash a devistating virus.

Devistating is not:
crashing your computer, making it run slow, using you to send spam and spreading itself to other computers.

Devistating would be stealing bank/creditcard information, SSN, phone number, emails, home address, yearly income, buisness records, photos, legal documents, credit history, VIN numbers, browsing habbits, conversations, IP ( code/ideas/songs/movies/prototypes )
All transmitted in a torrent P2P fasion to all of the other infected computers making the data hard to destroy.
With a little work you could probably transfer funds from all the bank accounts ( from the infected comptuers ) to another country!

Have it be stealth a silent as unnoticed as possible and maybe even disguise itself as something people will use.
It could use the BIOS, boot sector, OS, routers, modems, network printers, digital cameras, ipods, cellphones, 802.11 services, PCI/AGP cards, network/telephone/cable/wireless providers and such to store copies of it self to make sure the computers are re-infected over and over.
Transmit the information encrypted little pieces at a time, no network congestion, no slow-running computers... Who would notice?

Would it be a massive effort to create? Yes.
Is it completely possible? Yes.

THAT is why intelligent patient good people go crazy and release viruses.

Re:Just so you know.

[Hitto]

Mod that +1337(Pwnage), please.
And the grandparent maybe -5 (no, great-grandparent never promised to give $10K to charity so it actually IS funny sarcasm, you schmuck!)

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[Hitto]

"I suspect your name starts with an N and ends with a D, though."
Dude, most of us have been called so in the past, and it's not funny anymore!
I bear that tag proudly : "NerD".

More seriously... DarkFader has done excellent work for the NDS scene, but this is just some adolescent tantrum. Ooh, I wanted to show off some powerrrr, I'm so leet! *sigh*

Kids nowadays.

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[KDR_11k]

There already are tools to check for that ROM, a popular one is called md5 and included in almost every *nix.

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[AlexMax2742]

You're permanently banned from the homebrew community. We won't have anything to do with you ever again. It may be years before we recover from what you've done. Apologize all you want, if it makes you feel better, but you're none the better for it.

As far as I know, the 'homebrew' community isn't centrally located on one site? How do you ban someone 'from the community'?

Also, to take the devils advocate, perhaps he was fed up with what his very own hacks allowed people to do i.e. run commercial games. Or, as a point to not just trust any old asshole with your DS. After all, people didn't care about IE's security flaws until people started taking advantage of them. He stepped forward and admited that it was his work. The next group that comes along might actually have malicious inteinsions and figure out a way to perminently bork it. Hopefully people will be wiser the next time this happens.

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're permanently banned from the homebrew community.

Fuck you, I don't see you contributing anything useful. I readily welcome him into the homebrew community, so take your attitude and shove it up your ass.

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[stonecypher]

I wasn't using the word nerd. I'm referring to someone's nick.

Re:Meh. It's no consolation.

[Hitto]

Dude, please accept my apology for attempted humor.
*sigh*
Again... Kids nowadays.