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Ma Bell is Back

brass1 writes Ma Bell is back. It seems that for the purposes of branding, SBC is changing its name to AT&T once the acquisition is complete. Meanwhile, a great force and a high pitched whining sound has been reported from Judge Greene's grave as he spins at nearly 10K RPM."

16 of 511 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo by kflash15 · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Ma Bell" is a nickname for AT&T... like "Mother Bell" because it split into severl smaller "Baby Bells"...

  2. Re:They aren't as dangerous as before by thedogcow · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can attest to this. SBC majorly sucks on toast. Just initiating for them to turn on the telephone service for the first time(translation: click "OK" at the call center) costs $50.

    --
    Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
  3. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, this one is a little better.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  4. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo - SHORT VERSION by mrsbrisby · · Score: 5, Informative

    Alexander Graham Bell -> American Bell -> American Telephone and Telegraph (AT&T) + Western Electric -> Bell Laboratories (Bell Labs).

    Bell Labs did everything first: telephones, lasers, telecommunications satellites, electronic and packet switching, UNIX, etc.

    In 1949 Bell Labs was sued for antitrust. They settled in 1956 with the US DOJ. Part of the settlement is that Bell Laboratories couldn't use one monopoly (telephone) to gain others. In 1974 they got another antitrust suit which was to be split up in 1984.

    Prior to 1984, there was one telephone company. The bell. Mother bell. Ma Bell. Whatever you like. It was so huge and spanned so many products and etc, that many people didn't know where one part began and another ended. They kept telephone and data circuit prices real high, so the DOJ's decision to make a bunch of little bells (baby bells) was to make it easier for others to compete and hopefully bring the prices down.

    It didn't work.

  5. Re:service mark by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Informative
    HELLO?? MODS?? PLEASE TRY TO KEEP UP.

    "We're the phone company. We don't care, we don't have to." is a famous tag-line from comedianne Lilly Tomlin from the old "Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In" TV show. She played a phone operator (Ernestine) with a plugboard and did things like calling Richard Nixon's White House and asking "Why do you have 162 extension phones?...Well, if they're so silent, why do you need 162 phones?".

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  6. Re:Western Electric by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Informative
    They may be gone, but their tech lives on!

    Western Electric made telephones you could drive nails with. Most of the phones you get today would break if you dropped them only once, phone cable dialectric craps out after a few months. Stuff that was built to hold up for decades will probably still be around when the cockroaches are all that's left roaming the earth.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  7. SBC used to be called Southwestern Bell by dananderson · · Score: 4, Informative
    SBC was originally called Southwestern Bell. It covered the Southwest United States (except for California and Nevada). It was one of the regional "baby Bells" created when ATT was split in the 1980s.

    SBC merged with two other baby Bells: Pacific Bell in 1997, and Ameritech in 1999.

  8. Re:They even have a "Bell Labs" by sg3000 · · Score: 3, Informative
    > Formerly called SBC Technology Resources, Inc., currently called SBC Labs, will it be renamed to Bell Labs
    > now that the former holder of the name gave it up for the trendy 90's marketroid name of "Lucent"?

    If things keep going the same for Lucent, they might not be needing that name any longer, either.

    From today's New York Times:
    speculation about Lucent's long-term outlook - and even its survival as an independent company - gathered steam yesterday after it released earnings for the fourth quarter. Profits plunged 69 percent compared with the same quarter a year ago, to $374 million, or 8 cents a share, from $1.21 billion, or 23 cents a share.

    --
    Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
  9. Re:Cool by JUSTONEMORELATTE · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sorry to bear bad news, but most of AT&T Labs has been outsourced to IBM as of last May.
    IBM is actively trying to move as much of that work as possible to India, and they are overt about this. It's discussed openly in director-level all-hands meetings.
    I used to work for Labs, and became an IBM employee with the outsourcing, and then found myself reporting to someone with the @in.ibm.com address.
    Then the people who knew WHY we did our jobs kept leaving, and getting replaced by people who only knew how to populate status reports and timesheet codes.

    Then I quit and got a job in the Energy sector instead.

    AT&T Labs is essentially gone, and will never be reformed in the SBC/AT&T merged company.

  10. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Informative
    A similar "friendly nickname" is given to the BBC which is frequently refered to (unfortunately, probably more often by itself) as "Auntie Beeb", for much the same reason.

    The BBC hasn't been broken up (yet) ;)

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  11. Re:ma bell not back by rkhalloran · · Score: 3, Informative

    In the beginning was Ma Bell, and things were regular.

    Then did Judge Greene divide, and there was AT&T and seven Regional Bell Operating Companies: NyNex, Bell Atlantic, Bellsouth, Ameritech, US West, Southwest Bell and Pacific Telesis.

    Nynex & Bell Atlantic -> Verizon
    Southwest Bell & Ameritech & Pacific Telesis (and SNET) -> SBC
    US West -> acquired by Qwest during the dot-boom

    Seven RBOCs down to four, three of them owning a LD carrier or trying to: Qwest already a carrier, Verizon buying MCI, SBC buying AT&T. Bellsouth's the poor sister at this point. What ever happened to Sprint's LD business?

  12. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo - SHORT VERSION by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Informative
    Any scenario I could imagine where AT&T was the only phone company providing cell service doesn't look good at all.
    But it wouldn't have been. In most Western free-market countries, cellular service was deliberately un-monopolised. The dominant landline operator was usually given a franchise together with a competitor, because there's no reason why cellular should be a natural monopoly. It's cheap to deploy, a substantial proportion of the costs are per-customer (as opposed to landline service where it's more per-street)

    In Britain, BT was given an effective monopoly on landline telephone service in 1984. At around the same time, the UK government set up two cellular franchises, and while it allowed BT to be involved with owning one of the operators, it actually insisted that BT own a minority share (Cellnet, for it is them, was majority owned by a company largely known for delivering parcels and money.)

    In the early nineties, as this wasn't creating enough competition, they opened up three more franchises (though two franchisees merged early on), and the EU itself forced the UK to open up more (albeit resulting in only one more competitor) a few years ago for 3G services.

    I can't imagine it being any different in the US. The AMPS network supported B and A carriers from the start. Would the FCC not have opened up the 1900MHz band in the mid-nineties?

    Not that I think the break-up of AT&T did nothing. But the notion that AT&T having a regulated monopoly would have meant it would have controlled cellular too strikes me as unlikely. The only change I can possibly think of is that it's possible that the calling-party-pays scheme would have been more feasable in an environment in which one landline operator exists who sets the charges for every type of call. And, having lived under both regimes, I can't honestly tell you if that'd have been better or worse.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  13. Ma Bell was worse than you think by einhverfr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Go ahead and mock the Bell System. They did step over the line quite a few times.

    I think that the conspiracy between J.P. Morgan and Theodore Vail was more than a bit over the line. Note that Ma Bell didn't become a monopoly without a lot of "help" from the good friend of Vail's. Basically Morgan would withhold credit, the competitor would go belly up, and AT&T would buy it for pennies on the dollar. This is how they went from about 60% market share in 1900 to a near total monopoly 50 years later. Tragically Congress intervened on AT&T's behalf, effectively exempting telephony from the Sherman Act.

    It was only though the hard work of the folks at the FCC and NASA that we have any competition in the telphone market today. (FCC because of their tireless work to ensure that customers could purchase their own telephone equipment, and NASA for jumpstarting Comsat Corp. The FCC also made it a policy of subjecting AT&T to much more regulatory scrutiny than their competitors, such as Microwave Communication Inc, later named MCI.)

    The early AT&T made Microsoft look like a good corporate citizen. And they only got away with what they did because first Congress rolled over and exempted them from an important antitrust act, and secondly, that two major wars (WWII, Korea) disrupted investigation and enforcement on remaining grounds. But the break up was the result of seventy-four years of repeated predatory activity on the part of AT&T, investigations by the ICC (later FCC), and government policy aimed at curtailing AT&T's power. Note that the ICC's first investigation into antitrust violations started in 1910 and that it took two antitrust cases (both settled out of court) to break the company up.

    At its height, the Bell system included AT&T, Western Union, Western Electric, Bell Labs, and all the regional bell operating companies. They had their own radio network and were even attempting to get in on producing motion pictures prior to the consent decree of 1956.

    For many years, you could be heavily penalized for putting a piece of cellophane tape on your telephone. No consumer purchased equipment. No acustic fibers that would effectively mute the device, nothing. In essence your telephone was the equivalent of closed source software today. It was licensed to you. You could not dissassemble it. You could not extend it. You could not purchase another one and swap parts. You could not even purchase another one and connect it to the Bell network. And if you did, they would sense the impedance differences and disconnect your service.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  14. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo by Osiris+Ani · · Score: 3, Informative
    Bell labs was named after him
    Actually, Bell Labs was named after an earlier name of one of its parent companies, American Bell, which was indeed named after its founder, Alexander Graham Bell. Back in 1907, the AT&T (nee American Telephone and Telegraph Company, nee American Bell Telephone Company) and Western Electric engineering departments were combined to form what would eventually be named Bell Telephone Laboratories.

    (Decades later, this entity would be spun off and renamed "Lucent Technologies.")

  15. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo - SHORT VERSION by mrsbrisby · · Score: 3, Informative

    Um no, BBN did packet switching first by building the Interface Message Processor. AT&T said it could not be done.

    That quote is taken out of context so many times it's not even funny. What AT&T said couldn't be done was replacing the analog infrastructure with the digital one required for packet switching.

    There are no digital circuits in my town, so I'd say that packet switching still hasn't replaced the analog infrastructure.

    I'd never say that it won't happen, some day, but this quote occurred back in 1965 over 15 years after AT&T started experimenting with packet switched networks.

  16. Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo by Farfromlosin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, the POTS lines stayed up. If you had any clue how the POTS systems or cell systems worked, you would realize how silly that argument was. In a nutshell (I'm good at nutshells, people tell me I'm nuttier than a squirrel turd.) The POTS line in your house is run from a CO (Central Office) with usually one big telephone switch, which is easy to have one big battery bank (usually there is one set of batteries in each cabinet to prevent any one cabinet from failing). In the event of a catastrophic power failure (loss of grid power) the internal cabinet batteries keep a tone on the line until the building backup generator gets warmed up and provide an external source of power. Everything is centrally located, easy to maintain, and in most cases, the generator never comes on because the cabinets will power themselves for at least an hour before they start dropping out. Now, when you lose the grid, imagine having to try to maintain the same scenario in 20 locations. Each tower must have a battery back system (which requires routine maintenance), and a generator in the event of a longer outage (more routine maintenance) plus if the tower is on a building, you have the problem of the landlord letting you store large banks of potentially explosive batteries, a generator, a large tank of explosive fuel. Also, the generators have to be fired every so often to make sure they don't have a problem, plus storage of fuel for said generators has to be stabilized, or rotated so you don't have "bad gas" in your backup system that would take it down. Now, you've spent millions of dollars in getting your towers on a reliable source of power. You now have the problem of providing a SECOND source of power for the incoming line from the CO. Being a multi trunked line, it isn't powered by the CO's emergency power like your POTS line is. You must supply 24-96 volts and it might be a proprietary -48Vdc system. So you are looking at even more things to fail. It's not quite as simple as plugging an APC UPS into your home computer, and as soon as you do all of this, the power goes out, your battery bank explodes because of a bad cell (happened to our local PD on the last power outage drill) and the site goes down anyway. Now you have to answer to your customers who want to sue you because they couldn't call 911 on their cell phones. Ok, a little more than a nutshell, but still not too in depth.

    --
    ...because what good is power unless you can abuse it?