Slashdot Mirror
School Power Over Student Web Speech?
Petey_Alchemist asks: "In the wake of the Pope John XIII student weblogging ban, the online lives of students are once again being examined by their academic institutions. News outlets are covering a series of recent events--most notably the expulsion of a Fisher College sophomore (who also happened to be President of the Student Government) after he posted in a 'controversial' Facebook group. Facebook, for those of you who don't know, is an incredibly popular social networking site for American college students. The fact that you must have a college email account to join provides some modicum (re: illusion) of privacy, but doesn't keep faculty or administrative members from joining and patrolling the website.
Bottom line: Facebook, Pope John XIII, and other online student speech cases are popping up all over the place yet no case defining the amount of control a school has over a student based on that student's web speech has come before the Supreme Court. When will this happen? Moreover, what will be the result when it finally does?"
A student at the school I attend was recently expelled because she posted photos on a public webpage of herself drinking. The school found out about it (I think an IT guy was surfing and searched for my school name on a free photosharing site), and the girl was expelled.
The lesson: don't be stupid about what you post on publicly viewable websites, such as blogs. You never know who's going to read it.
"Scud Storm!" -- Jeremy of PurePwnage.com
As far as I'm concerned, these schools can do whatever they want. So far, these are all private school that we're hearing about. They can do whatever they want, that's their right. As soon as it's a public school, though, then we have problems. When the government starts telling you what you can and can't say, that's infringing on your first amendment rights. The school would lose any case like this in a heartbeat.
:)
But the solution to this problem is simple -- if you're a student at one of these pro-brainwashing schools, leave. Go somewhere where freedom and academic integrity are the core values -- not "do whatever we tell you to do". Because frankly, college is not about doing what you're told, it's about learning, exploring new ideas, and being Free. If these institutions that censor their students claim to care about education, they're lying. Let them brainwash their students, while those who can think for themselves go elsewhere. Capitalism saves the day again
My other car is first.
To be honest, I think this could happen very soon and I both think and hope that the Supreme Court will be on the side of free speech. Everyone in the United States has a right to free speech, but we also have consequences to bear for taking out freedom of speech too far, in public schools I imagine there will be fewer to no free speech restrictions. However, in private schools, I think they will put a harsh ban on violating their rules if they have any. I imagine that few (private) schools will actually enact AND progressively enforce these rules, but if they do, the punishment will be harsh, like suspension if the pupil does it twice, and expulsion for a third offense. Naturally, the first time will just be a nice "please take the site down NOW." This topic has me baffled, still, my personal belief is that everybody should have the right to free speech, especially when it's approiate, and bad-mouthing one's school (in many cases) is not only normal, it's almost expected for students at some schools, and if a school is so bad that more than 25% of the students express extreme dislike, I also think the school should re-evaluate its priorities.
I like suggestions, but I don't like contributing towards them.
The end result of all this is that private schools will become another government agency restricted by law from abridging free speech despite their non-public nature.
Free Speech is one of those things that is widely misunderstood. It is simply the ability to speak freely and without government interference. The government is restricted from barring you from exercising your right to speak.
That does not mean that you have that right everywhere. Your rights end, goes the phrase, where mine begin. Private property is one space where you are restricted in your speech. Public property, on the other hand, is where you ought to be unrestricted. Private sector entities (individuals, companies, and organizations) have the right to bar you from activities of the entity if they do not approve of your speech. This used to be an inherent right.
If we force private institutions to accept any and all free speech, despite the fact that it may injure, slander, or be antithetical to the institutions' charter, then we are in essence forcing them to act as a government agency, i.e. statute-restricted non-discriminatory agency. The institutions do not have the right to act as they deem appropriate, but must act in accord with governmental regulation.
Constitutional Amendments like the ERA were big steps in usurping the rights of private institutions. If we follow this line of thinking through, where schools ought to be prevented from punishing students who break school rules, then we can see that the end result is that schools and government move closer to each other and the value of private schooling is diminished.
Will it go that far? Hopefully not, and the school will realize what a mistake it is making. However, the odds are more likely that the growth of government will continue unabated and it will absorb all educational institutions as time goes by, piece by piece, right by right.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
Agreed. But watch out for your computer center's AUP -- some schools (like mine) have been sued and lost for censoring their students, but they still refuse to update their AUP to be more realistic. UIC refused to agree that their policies were unreasonable, and made no offer to review them*, so I told them I no longer agreed to their policy and cancelled my accounts. They have been dragging their feet on this (since it's attracted the attention of other branches of the University), so my web page is still up :) Pity I haven't had time to detail my problems with their policy and put it up there.
* The policy-makers have their heads firmly lodged in their asses -- the excuse I always get is "our lawyers said this is OK". I guess their lawyers don't understand what a court ruling against them means.
If you care about your rights online, I suggest you do what I did -- cancel your account if the policy is unreasonable. You can get free e-mail anywhere these days. If their policy interferes with your classwork, be sure to let the University's higher-ups know about it. Schools have no right to tell their students what is and is not acceptable speech, especially schools funded entirely by the government!
My other car is first.
What's truly amazing, however, is that students *aren't* punished severely for things such as rioting. After the Red Sox won the world series the local colleges has many riots with students flipping cars, fighting, etc. Very little happened to any of them. But *dare* to speak your mind and you get kicked out of school?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
Here is an interesting article about a site called whototake.com, which was started by James, a student I know at Fullerton College, where I teach. It was a place for students to post online reviews of their professors. Of course, when students rated me highly, I considered it fair, and when they gave me bad ratings, I considered them extremely misguided :-) The sad thing is that James was forced to take down the site due to the threat of a lawsuit. I may have been unhappy with some of the things said about me, but I would never sink so low as to use the threat of a lawsuit against a young college student as a way of suppressing his right to free speech.
Find free books.
When I was young I thought USA was a really cool country. For whatever reason, probably because of pop culture export, USA seemed great and my own country (Sweden) boring. I remember a kid on my block was really into the marines, he had a US flag above his bed. He knew lots of presidents, pretty good for someone not native to the country.
Then I grew older. I realized no country is inherently cool, when you look at the society and politics and not just action movies. USA seemed reasonable though, I remember a history (or geography) lesson in elementary school when a teacher described the basic ideas of the constitution, and the emigration from Sweden->America in the previous centuries. Inspiring.
Fast forward til now. Do I awe you? No, because in my opinion (which will be modded down really freaking fast), your country is going downhill. You are teaching religion as science, I don't even think fundamentalist muslims do that. Then you sort-of ban freedom of speech by forbidding blogging, of all stupid things to ban (whatever happened to land of the free?), introduce laws like DMCA, and are actively trying to destroy the whole worlds intellectual property laws.
Think about it.
Regards,
Swedish citizen.
Of course they allow non-Catholics at Catholic schools. What better way to add more sheep to the flock?
The brainwashing that goes on in those schools can be scary sometimes.
-Z
I know that at my school, also catholic high school, the administration bullied some kid into 'inviting' them to facebook so that they could comb through everybody's profiles. Multiple people were called to the front office, apparently to answer for pictures or written accounts of drinking, sex, and drugs. I can't really say that I'm sorry for them -- there is no such thing as privacy on the internet. At the same time, the administration should find something better to do. I don't take sides so much simply because I try to stay out of facebook/xanga/livejournal/myspace. I think most of them epitomize the stupidity and superficiality of your average teenage girl.
I might add that I have been personally attacked by a facebook group and an individual known on facebook as "Thomas Torquemada." Not only is there an illusion of privacy, but also of anonymity.
Maybe it's part of the Church's seeming tendency to live vicariously through others. Seems like that's what some of our resident priests do during confession according to my girlfriend.
Well first off, the US really is in deep dodo. Especially economics wise, (the debt is reaching Argentine levels) but unfortunately we will probably take down europe with us.
But in the big picture, I think what you are seeing is that the US is going thru the birthing pains of the information age. All the people who were used to controlling information are panacking, and the peoples of the world who have been exposed to US cluture via the internet are suffering culture shock all over the planet - causing many to lash out at us, and a lot of islamic reactionisim.
In fact, something similar happened during the industrial revolution as new transportation technology caused US, inidian, and Mexican cultures to mingle like never before and completely clash. Not to mention the thought of the plantation masters who freaked at the thought of loosing their labor force as labor in the North became mobile. Now, information is becomming commoditized and large industries are threatened with complete loss of control. (over information, implying the death of the copyright system)
We haven't had a transformation like this since the civil war. IMHO, it's just the beginning and all freakin hell is about to break loose.
I go to a large public school and wonder if this could have happened here. You see, we have an interesting judicial system when it comes to kicking people out of school for violating school code. (Which may or may not be a violation of real law, as seen in this case.) If you violate school code, regardless of weather it would land you in front of the cops or not, and the violation is severe enough that it could get you kicked out of school, you come before a panel of students and administrators. The way the panel is set up is that the students (5 of them) can outvote the administrators (4 of them). We hear the case of the student (they get a chance to tell their side) and decide if they broke the code. If we decide they did, then we get to decide on the punishment also. We could decide not to expel them, or to expel them for years. Either way, I doubt this kinda stuff would fly if you had students deciding cases like this one....
Funnily enough, I was almost expelled for my university for "insulting a university member" (actually, documenting the mistakes of a lecturer who was fundamentally unqualified to teach the subject, that we'd already complained about and had it swept under the carpet, for other students who didn't know any better).
The head of department went massively overboard on the disciplinary proceeding and tried to have me expelled on a personal grude (after I complained she covered up our initial complaint about the lecturer concerned). Eventually it was tacitly admitted she was pursuing a vendetta, and I was let go with a severe punishment (to set a precedent), but a suspended one (so as long as I did nothing else wrong in my time left there - about 6 months, by that point - I basically just got away with a token slap on the wrist).
I learned some hard lessons as a result of the experience, and the crux of the matter is this:
1) Universities/colleges are private clubs.
2) Private organisations make their own rules, and can freely disregard rules we otherwise take for granted in everyday life, such as "freedom of speech".
3) Most universities don't make a complete copy of their disciplinary rules and regulations easily available before you enroll there... and even if they do, they're pretty much all the same so there's not much to choose between them.
4) If they perceive you're fucking with one member of their club (a "important" one anyway, like a member of the teaching staff, tenured professor, administrative employee, whatever), they will close ranks and will all fuck you. You have attacked their "club", so the whole club comes gunning for you.
5) Because they're a private club, this is all entirely legal, and above-board.
Sample interesting details of a typical UK university disciplinary process:
i) While you're accused of (or being investigated for) an academic or disciplinary offence, you have no right to a lawyer. Contacting any form of legal representation is itself a further disciplinary offence.
ii) You do have the right to be represented by a member of the Students' Union. These people are generally untrained volunteers, and may not even know the disciplinary process prior to taking on your case. You may also not be informed of your right to representation at any stage.
iii) Merely being accused (not even necessarily found guilty) of an academic or disciplinary offence and having to take time to defend yourself, even under threat of expulsion, is not considered grounds for an extention on a single coursework deadline.
iv) Offences such as "abusing, harassing, threatening or insulting a member of the university" mean exactly that. If you state "X is bald" and he doesn't like the fact he's bald, you can be hauled up in front of the university authorities, regardless of the fact he is bald. Unlike libel/slander, truth is no defence.
v) If you publically assert a lecturer is fundamentally unqualified to do his job, you commit an academic offence. Providing documentary evidence that you're right makes it a worse offence - it doesn't mitigate it.
iv) By submitting coursework to the university you permanently sign over all IP rights to the university. Some universities claim rights to all IP you produce while a member, even in your spare time and on your own equipment.
So yeah. Schools, universities and colleges aren't fair, aren't democratic, and aren't even (arguably) ethical. That said, if you shut up and keep your head down you're fine, and it's a great opportunity to spend 3-5 years getting wasted and having fun.
Just don't insult a faculty member while you do it, and never, ever stand up for a point of principle.
Everything in moderation, including moderation itself