The Death of Used Game Sales?

xtracto writes "The Inquirer has an interesting piece about a new Sony Patent on a technology that may possible prevent DVD disc media users from using their purchased disks in other machines after they have used them on a specific reader. Commentary also available on Joystiq. From the Article: 'While many are aware of the double profit companies make on pre-owned games, this would ensure the death of trading games between friends and even going to a friend's house to play a little multiplayer.'"

Comments

That Spells "Problem"

[TychoCelchuuu]

And what if you upgrade your DVD drive? Are you screwed? I'll believe the tech when I see it. I'm not sure Sony has the guts to try something this restrictive.

Re:That Spells "Problem"

[jelloshotgun]

...Or if your PS3 dies? I had a PS2 die on me, and buying another one was bad enough. Having to re-buy the games to go with a replaced system would certainly make the situation more enjoyable... :/

Re:That Spells "Problem"

[Chyeld]

Because that's almost as bad as installing a rootkit on your machine as a trojan, one opens your computer up to all sorts of nasty tricks if you have it installed and someone else comes along to exploit it?

Sony would never do that, right? They are a responsible company which looks out for the consumer of their products?

Lets face it, Sony's had a break from reality, they'll pull this crap in an instant as long as it doesn't cost them much more in production.

Oh, then it's very simple

[Dark Paladin]

I would never buy another Playstation game again.

Of course, with Sony's DRM kick and some other things, they're making it easier for me to decide to ban them outright. I can live without a lot of movies (I have 3 small children, so I hardly go these days anyway).

So if they want to break the existing system in the hopes of getting more money, then screw them. I have an entire back catalog of games I haven't gotten around to playing. I can wait a few years.

Can you, Sony? Yes, I know, you won't miss me. But I wonder how many other people you'd piss off along the way - and in a looming battle between Microsoft and Nintendo, can you *really* take that risk?

Well? Do you feel lucky, punk? (Apologies to Clint. I couldn't help myself.)

are they nuts?

[czarangelus]

No f'in way I'm buying a PS3 if this happens. Almost all my games are bought used - it makes it a lot easier on those who are gaming on a limited budget. If this happens, I'm going to end up the proud new owner of a Nintendo Revolution.

No, not really...

[Shads]

... it just ensures that the first time I get a game like this and the system fails that I sue Sony. Alternately, it may ensure that *everyone* starts burning copies of their games.

Copy protection as it currently exists hurts no one but legitimate purchasers of the material. It costs the pirates maybe a few hours of time or in worst case a day.

So long as the hardware isn't secured, the data that is being read in it can't be secured.

Alot of this new BS with sony and drm/copy protection/etc is seriously making me consider NOT buying a PS3. I don't want to support this kind of stupidity.

Be the first significant console I didn't own since the Nintendo days.

death?

[cryptoz]

While many are aware of the double profit companies make on pre-owned games, this would ensure the death of trading games between friends and even going to a friend's house to play a little multiplayer.

The death of trading games? Sure. Just like DRM has brought about the death of trading music. Yep! That's going to happen! When oh when will the "death of..." articles stop?!

Re:Rendered unreadable?!?

[axoi]

The only way this would work is if the console or dvd drive or system has nvram that recorded the license code ( or whatever it is ) and made some type of hash from the disk to go with it. That way when the same disk is inserted the same hash is created and verified against the license number. If it exists they can play otherwise no.

Sounds like digital suicide. How long before this gets cracked and everyone has a full blown nvram full of game licenses? About two weeks.

- Bill

No worries.

[HunterZ]

This is NOT going to happen. Many major game retailers (e.g. GameStop) make a significant amount of money on pre-owned (used) game sales. You can bet that they'll fight Sony tooth-and-nail to keep them from implementing any system that permanently binds a game disc to a single console.

It's also a pretty ridiculous idea, as I know a lot of people who bring together their games and/or consoles to have parties and whatnot. This kind of (legal, by the way) game trading and loaning is a form of free word-of-mouth advertising for game companies.

Going back all the way to my Atari 2600 in the early 80s, I can remember buying way more console games after having borrowed a friend's copy or renting a copy from a store that I have from reading useless magazine ads and reviews.

The line up so far

[RyoShin]

Sony - Playstation 3 (confirmed name)
+Blu-ray drive
+Lean Mean Sony Company Gaming Machine look
+Backwards compatible with PS2/PS1 games
+Games: Final Fantasy series, GTA series (first serve, anyway)
-Lock out technology to make sure that when a review says a game has no replay value, that means no one else can replay it, either
-Probably makes lousy burgers
-Expensive
-Same old controllers

Microsoft - XBox 360 (confirmed name)
+First to launch
+XBox Live features
+Games: Halo, ... Halo.
+It's white?
-Plain old DVD drive (no advanced drive- what is their's, HD-DVD?)
-Only partial backwards compatibility
-Same old controllers

Nintendo - Revolution (tentative name)
+Smallest of the three systems
+Innovative, new controller interface
+Backwards compatibility for the past 20 years
+Ability for controller attachments greatly increases game immersion and developer freedom
+Games: Zelda, Mario, Smash Brothers, Metroid
-Regular DVD drive
-Lack of HDTV support (IIRC, it has high resolution, but not HDTV)
-Arms or wrists could wear out faster than after a "session" with certain Pamela Anderson videos (this remains to be seen)
-Ability for controller attachments could overwhelm people who get 15 different types (there are already two "official" regular attachments- the Ninchuck and the shell)

Personally, I was leaning towards a Revolution when they first revealed the console, and I'm hard set on it now that I know about the controller. Sony's attempts at similar "prevention" in other technology realms ("P.C. phone home") helps make my mind up. Sony can keep their anti-customer DRM and Spider-man font. They won't get another cent from me.

Re:The line up so far

[heli0]

Nintendo - Revolution (tentative name)
+Backwards compatibility for the past 20 years

Not quite that simple. Where exactly do I insert the NES, SNES and N64 games that I already own? I will have to buy them again to get the privilege of playing them on an emulator on the Rev, and even this is limited to the games from publishers that agree to be part of this whole system.

Even old NES games will probably cost "a couple of pounds" according to Nintendo: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61 604

Re:Not going to happen

[DreamerFi]

Nobody at Sony would be stupid enough to implement this on the PS3.
 
You must be new here.
 

Re:Good goal, bad implementation

[Chyeld]

First off, I take it you've never been to a used book store? Never used eBay, an auction, or even Goodwill?

What's so special about game developers that they deserve protection from their products being resold used that the rest of the world doesn't have?

I don't see a problem with selling or purchasing used games at a small fraction of the cost of a new package as long as the games themselves are marked as used and aren't already 'tied' to an individual like most MMO's are.

Secondly, if a developer can't get the majority of people to purchase their games at the new game price point, that's a good sign their product deserves the bargin bin or that they need to lower their prices.

What if my game console breaks

[dtfinch]

Do I have to buy new games? Or what if I upgrade to a newer release of their console that claims backward compatibility, but most of my games won't work because they're locked into the older, obsolete console?

Re:The only source for games...

[leland242]

dude... seriously... shhhh!

Publishers

[heli0]

Don't forget that this is on their wish list.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_sto ry.php(que)id=125925%22

Mark Rein, Vice President of Epic Games
"If you walk into EB in the US, they try and sell you a second hand version of a game before a new one. I think that's bad. It would be fine if they share that revenue with us. They can also be marketing partners with us as well. We can have an official refurbished games policy. That's the problem. Those resold games use server resources, tech support. The majority of guys calling up saying "I don't have my serial number", I'm sure a lot of those are resold. It costs us money. Those customers think they paid for it, and they're entitled to support. The reality is, we didn't get paid. They didn't pay us."

Re:Publishers

[llevity]

You know, as much as I hate to agree with the evil publishers, they have a valid point.

Their marketing likely contributed to Joe Blow walking into the store looking for the game, yet they don't get to recoup that money through revenue if Joe buy's a used copy of the game. The support issue is also valid.

It wouldn't be as big of a deal if it were people selling their old games at yard sales, or even individuals clearing out their collection on eBay. But this is facilitated and organized by fairly large retail chains, so it's on a grander scale.

Having said all that, I don't think TFA's subject is the best solution. As many have pointed out, it'd screw over just about all of the legitimate consumers, and encourage people to resort to piracy, or boycott.

Can't the publishers just say "You know, if you're going to sell copies of our games used without cutting us in on the profit, we're not selling you any new games?". It'd hurt their bottom lines for a while, but if enough of them did it, the EB and GameStops would revise their policy or go out of business.

Probably not going to happen

[Castar]

First off, this is speculation based on a patent from 2001 in Japan, and patented in the US in 2004. So it's not brand new.

Secondly, there's already a system in place to do this for Online games at least - the DNAS copy-protection system can enable this behavior (locking the disc to a specific console) but no publishers enable it, for the obvious reason that it would piss a lot of people off.

While console makers would no doubt like to stop second-hand sales, I think they realize that people would be less likely to buy the hardware if they're unable to play second-hand games, and that game retailers make most of their money on second-hand games - killing that market would kill the retailers.

Of course, I woudl have said the same things about rootkits on audio CDs. So we'll see.

Re:Sony products

[Gogo0]

Well, I own a PS2, but it is used, so Sony didnt get any of my money on that =]
They did get my money on the games, though... =[

The revolution will get the majority of my games money in the future, like the cube and DS do now.

It's not even a rumor! It's just speculation!

[pornking]

The article describes Sony's new patent, and then speculates on one possible use for it. Everyone here seems to have their panties in a bunch based on that alone.

• Sony is a large company that is actively involved in DRM research.
• Sony files a patent for some DRM technology.
• The PS3 will be out RSN.

Therefore The PS3 will incorporate said technology.

QED

I think a few people here are overdue for a nap.

Some GBA titles do not work with GB Player

[tepples]

[The Game Boy Player accessory] screws to the bottom of your gamecube and lets you play everything an gameboy advance will play (and a very large proportion of nintendos classics have had some form of gameboy port)

Not exactly:

1. Game Boy Advance plays tilt-sensor games (such as Kirby Tilt n Tumble, WarioWare Twisted!, and Yoshi Topsy-Turvy). Game Boy Player does not because there is no way to use the Control Stick to override the tilt sensor.
2. Game Boy Advance plays sunlight-sensor games (such as the Boktai series). Game Boy Player does not (practically) because if the Game Pak can see the sun, then you can see the glare on the TV.
3. Game Boy Advance plays GBA Video titles. These freeze intentionally on the Game Boy Player as a form of copy prevention.
4. Game Boy Advance plays The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords and other GBA titles with a heavy multiplayer aspect. Game Boy Player officially does not because NOA recommends against using more than one Game Boy Player on one LAN; you have to use a Game Boy Player and one, two, or three GBA or GBA SP units.

But replace "everything" with "98 percent of games" and you're set to go.

Re:AES/EBU

[Blkdeath]

No, the "S" in AES/EBU stands for "Society".

I can't help but notice the first line of the URL you referenced says;

S/PDIF or S/P-DIF stands for Sony/Philips Digital Interconnect Format, also IEC 958 type II, part of IEC-60958.

Sounds to me as if HTH NE1 was rather correct.

The protocol formally called IEC 958 type II and popularly known as S/PDIF is primarily a proper subset of AES/EBU except for one minor detail (the "channel status bit") that most implementations of AES/EBU can probably handle.

Yes, the low level protocol support is nearly identical but the cabling, connector, signal level, subcode information and max resolution all differ. (Again from the very URL you referenced).

This is a great example of what happens when a person who knows little to nothing about a subject arms himself with Google (or Wikipedia) and posts the results on Slashdot.

See, had you worked with any of this technology in the Real World (or, had you read the entirety of your reference material) you'd know that the S/PDIF format is a lower cost, more readily available variant of a professional format used by music studios. It is a joint venture between electronics companies to provide low-cost digital audio to consumers. Another large difference is the size and cost of the cabling required. Professional equipment uses XLR connectors (3 pin, very cumbersome head, thick cables) which is higher cost and complexity. Also, home consumers don't need the ruggedness of the XLR connection as most home theatre equipment is connected once and ignored until the next major component upgrade whereas studio equipment is constantly re-connected depending on the equipment in use at the time.