Linksys WRT54G drops Linux

avorobiev writes "WiFi Planet is running a story on all the advantages of Linux-based firmware for the Linksys WRT54G router. Little do they know that as of v.5 of the router Linksys dropped Linux and switched to VxWorks. And yes, they crippled the hardware (halved the RAM) so that third-party firmware can not be installed anymore."

Comments

Understandable

[Kawahee]

Although it might not be too popular an idea, it's logical considering that Linksys doesn't want their $60 dollar router to be a $600 dollar one (Article: "The story of the Linksys Wireless-G Router (model WRT54G) and how you can turn a $60 router into a $600 router is a little bit CSI and a little bit Freaks & Geeks.") so that people are forced to buy their more expensive products.

If I'm right, I don't know where the article got "It's also the story of how the open source movement can produce a win-win scenario for both consumers and commercial vendors", because I haven't seen too many commercial vendors 'win' from allowing people with enough expertise to convert their routers to the next level and lose them money.

Just my two cents.

Re:Understandable

[Eivind]

Depends -- Linksys could have gone the other direction and started delivering the more feature-rich OS-firmware by default (or as an option). This would allow them to sell what you call "a $600 router" for $60.

They are not the only router-manufacturer. It is offcourse true that Linksys would rather you buy an expensive router from then than a cheap one. But on the other hand it's also true they would rather you buy a cheap router from then than an expensive one from their competition.

Re:Understandable

[benjamindees]

Of course Linux was a win for Linksys. It's just that they were bought out by Cisco.

Linksys was in the hardware business, so Open Source was good for them. Cisco is in the "enterprise pixie dust" business, so Open Source is bad for them.

Overall, though, Open Source is good for users, which is all that really matters.

Re:Understandable

[alienw]

I don't think it's purposefully crippled. Nobody is going to buy a Linksys instead of a Cisco router; the reliability difference is obvious even for a home user. It's probably more the case of saving money. If VxWorks can run with half the RAM and half the Flash, that's considerable savings.

Not to mention, they don't have to deal with hacking Linux to work on their hardware, they can have an OS company deal with that. Sometimes, rolling your own just doesn't make much business sense.

Re:Understandable

[Eivind]

Works both ways. Sure, you can have a company deal with the software. They won't do it for free though, and this is a very low-cost low-margin router.

Besides, I'm not that surprised if the Linux-firmware is adopted to also run on the half-ram version over the next few months, they'll have to sacrifice some functionality, but it's certainly not impossible: I've made Linux-routers that boot and run of a single 1.4MB floppy.

Re:Understandable

[Tune]

The story of [...] how you can turn a $60 router into a $600 router [...]

Or rather: The story of how you can gain market share by freeloading on a movement that lifts your $60 dollar hardware to a $600 level.

I mean: maybe the $600 hardware wouldn't be worth $600 in the first place if it weren't developed in a proprieatary world. I don't suppose they loose money on WRT54G items, its just that they've discovered a way to maximize company-wide profits by cashing more on hardware that supports GPL-licensed, thus cashing on the software itself. (Note that the old WRT54G hardware appears to remain available, but rebranded as WRT54GL, most probably at a higher price.)

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The path of least resistence is steady deterioration: without constant effort/energy keeping information free, it becomes not free, as thermodynamics clearly states

Re:Understandable

[DrSkwid]

You do know that Cisco bought out Linksys?

Re:Understandable

[indifferent children]

More importantly, Linksys didn't sell a $600 router, so they didn't lose any money when you made your Linksys router more powerful. Cisco does sell expensive routers (probably none quite as cheap as $600), so a re-flashed Linksys potentially costs them a lot of money.

So what? There is still a Linux flavoured product.

[Narkov]

Great article research. Linksys will/have released a Linux version and labled the packaging "Open Source". Here's the FCC information on the Linux device.

How do I tell on the retail box if it's v5?

[artifex2004]

I'm going out to buy either a 54G or a 54GS this week, specifically so I can install something that is capable of bandwidth shaping certain IPs in my network, and so obviously I need to make sure I have the right firmware and hardware spec.

Re:How do I tell on the retail box if it's v5?

[michaelredux]

I'm going out to buy either a 54G or a 54GS this week, specifically so I can install something that is capable of bandwidth shaping certain IPs in my network, and so obviously I need to make sure I have the right firmware and hardware spec.

The first 4 digits in the serial number (look on the box or the underside of the router) represent the hardware revision:
CDF0 = WRT54G v1.0
CDF1 = WRT54G v1.0
CDF2 = WRT54G v1.1
CDF3 = WRT54G v1.1
CDF5 = WRT54G v2.0
CDF7 = WRT54G v2.2
CDF8 = WRT54G v3.0
CDF9 = WRT54G v3.1
CDFA = WRT54G v4.0
CDFB = WRT54G v5.0

CGN0 = WRT54GS v1.0
CGN1 = WRT54GS v1.0
CGN2 = WRT54GS v1.1
CGN3 = WRT54GS v2.0
CGN4 = WRT54GS v2.1
CGN5 = WRT54GS v3.0
CGN6 = WRT54GS v4.0

(Source: http://wrt-wiki.bsr-clan.de/index.php?title=DD-WRT _Docu_(EN))

As far as I know, the GS version still runs Linux, although it is typically $20 more.

I used the information above to find the last WRT54G v4.0 on the shelf, mixed in with the newer v.5's at my local Office Depot.

WRT54GL

[spiralscratch]

Linksys is also coming out with the WRT54GL, which appears to simply be the WRT54G v4 hardware relabeled.

The Italian Linksys site shows it (bring babelfish), but the US site does not yet, except for their GPL Code Center.

More in this forum thread.

Competition

[adderofaspyre]

There are many manufacturers out there that sell linux enabled routers. Linksys might lose a lot of sales over this move.

Re:Competition

[adderofaspyre]

Most of the people I know do care. They are usually tech people, and others who have no clue about IT get their advice from rest of us who care.

Re:Competition

[Sancho]

Although Linksys was the beginning of running non-standard flash on off-the-shelf wireless routers, it is far from the pinnacle.

My money's on the Asus WL-500G Deluxe Why? because although it does not have 8 megs of flash, it has USB ports. Two of them, if I'm not mistaken. With the OpenWRT project, you can actually include the USB mass storage driver and plug a flash device (or a USB hard drive, I suppose) into this thing and have just about all the storage space you could want.

Of course, you can do this with NFS on other routers, but that requires that the network is up and that the other machine is up. This is a simpler, safer solution, particularly if you want access to the filesystem immediately after bootup.

Crippled?

[Urkki]

"And yes, they crippled the hardware (halved the RAM) so that third-party firmware can not be installed anymore."

Uh... Saving on components after replacing the OS with something that doesn't need as much memory is hardly "crippling". Hinting that they should have more RAM than they need is a bit... detached from harsh business reality.

Re:Crippled?

[mnmn]

I agree. And bravo to Linksys if they replaced Linux just to have a more efficient router.

I've seen people use Linux for crazy things, just because they wanted to use Linux. Plenty of small RTOSes require tiny amounts of ram and flash, less than what already comes on MCUs. For Linux, you need to add ram, flash, all the routes on the circuit board and the design and manufacturing costs.

Linux is awesome, but for some things eCos fits better. For other things freeRTOS or micrium fits even better. Its crazy to use Linux 2.6.10 on a $10 watch, making it a $50 watch, just so you can advertise that its a $50 watch.

If I wanted to run linux on my firewall, I'll just use an old machine (which I do), and NOT BUY linksys at all. I'll buy linksys for a very simple and cheap router (which theyre trying to be).

Re:Crippled?

[Urkki]

It is stupid if it loses Linksys sales to competitors that have models with better specs for almost the same price or only marginally more expensive.

Indeed. But the question is, how many of their customers actually even realize that their router has some RAM and an operating system inside the physical device? If they sell 5 million units at $5 profit margin per unit, it's $1000000 better than selling 6 million units at $4 profit margin.

And in this specific case I do believe that the increased profit far outweighs any lost sales. Of course I'm not an economist, so that's just a gut feeling.

Re:Crippled?

[benjamindees]

One thing to think about though is that, without a supported OS, most hardware is essentially disposable. The only reason you can use your "old machine" as a firewall is that it is OS-neutral. Devices which rely on specialized operating systems don't get reused. They get thrown away.

Also, you didn't mention the difference in power requirements between small custom hardware and reused PCs. A couple of years of electric bills will pay for the entire box. And the power saved will pay for the difference in hardware requirements several times over.

There is definitely a place for customized hardware running a generic OS like Linux. And there is incentive for both manufacturers and users to produce and demand such devices.

Bad news

[dimss]

My co-worker has bought new Linksys. He wanted to install OpenWRT... Bad luck. It was ver.5 running VxWorks.

Linksys running OpenWRT is nearly-perfect (and very inexpensive) universal CPE equipment for medium-sized ISP. Some ISPs in Latvia use hundreds of them. Here is one: http://nx.mpe.lv/

Re:So what? There is still a Linux flavoured produ

[Narkov]

They AREN'T dropping support for Linux. They are releasing a separate model with Linux support and making the mainstream one a cheaper design. The product I linked to is a Wireless router that can, with the addition of the USB port, act as a NAS unit.

Lots of alternatives!

[PastaAnta]

There are lots of alternatives to the Linksys routers. A detailed list of routers compatible with the OpenWrt firmware can be found here.

I have just bought a cheap ASUS WL-500g Deluxe router with two USB 2.0 ports, which can be used with storage devices, printers, webcams etc. With USB ports the possibilities are endless! Linksys seem to have been a bit slow to realise this anyway.

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Re:Lots of alternatives!

[commanderfoxtrot]

I also have a WL-500g Asus router- it's fantastic. Very reliable, with full Linux and USB.

I have disks and printers/scanners plugged in to mine.