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Is the Earth in a Vortex of Space-Time?

da6d writes "Apparently, we'll soon know for sure.... NASA has announced in an article that 'A NASA/Stanford physics experiment called Gravity Probe B (GP-B) recently finished a year of gathering science data in Earth orbit. The results, which will take another year to analyze, should reveal the shape of space-time around Earth--and, possibly, the vortex.'" More from the article: "If Earth were stationary, that would be the end of the story. But Earth is not stationary. Our planet spins, and the spin should twist the dimple, slightly, pulling it around into a 4-dimensional swirl. This is what GP-B went to space to check."

11 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. Space by nycheetah · · Score: 5, Funny

    Live long and vortexed?

  2. uhh by flamesrock · · Score: 5, Funny

    "If Earth were stationary, that would be the end of the story. But Earth is not stationary."

    Are you on crack!? The earth is stationary. It is the sun that's moving.

    1. Re:uhh by Belseth · · Score: 5, Funny
      "If Earth were stationary, that would be the end of the story. But Earth is not stationary."

      Are you on crack!? The earth is stationary. It is the sun that's moving.

      It's the fact that it's flat that gives it the illusion of motion.

    2. Re:uhh by LionMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is meant is the following:
      One of the exact solutions to the Einstein field equations is a decent assumption for the Earth's (or anything approximately spherical which is not moving relativistically) gravitational field. The curvature of space-time is greater the closer to the center of the massive body. A light ray travelling some distance from the massive body will be deflected from a "straight line" (which is hard to define in curved space).
      If you are taking the view that you start rotating the rest of the universe around us, then it is equivalent to having your coordinate system spin around the massive body (well, there is nothing besides the massive body in the universe I am imagining). Physically, light will follow the same path as it did before, since all you have done is redefine the coordinate system, which does not change physics!
      Now instead, consider spinning the Earth, instead of the coordinate system. The matter making up the earth now has more energy-momentum (the magnitude of which is a physical quantity which can be measured independent of reference frame, if your frame is freely-falling). Energy-momentum is what causes space-time to curve, so a light ray travelling the same distance from the earth will be deflected by a larger amount, since space will be more curved.

      --
      -Leo
    3. Re:uhh by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, it's flat because it's stationery, duh!

      No. The Earth is too complex to have just ended up flat with the sun spinning around it. A higher power must have had a guiding hand. So we should instruct kids on the Intelligent Flat Earth Design Theory over the Newtonian-Einstienian theories of gravity, which are after all, completely unprovable.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
  3. Re:It's all relative by Starker_Kull · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, it doesn't have to do with universal reference frames in the sense you mean. In Newtonian mechanics, there is a limited set of preferred reference frames within which Newtonian physics is valid - the inertial reference frames, or, casually speaking, the ones moving at a constant velocity - none of which is a "Universal" or better reference frame than any other. But even in Einstein's model, which incorporates accelerated reference frames in the same framework as inertial, there are still "preferred" reference frames; non-rotating ones. ROTATING reference frames lead to unambigious differences, both in Newtonian and Einsteinian models. While sloppily written, the article means that it is the ROTATION of the Earth's reference frame that leads to different predicted results, not the TRANSLATIONAL motion. Not all reference frames are created equal.

  4. Re:So... by leoPetr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, your problem with the story is that it's too geeky? Which part of "News for Nerds" is opaque to you?

    Proving things that are suspected to be true is the meat-and-bones of science. After all, they might turn out to not be true. Idle speculation may have been good enough for Aristotle the Things-Will-Stop-Moving-Without-the-Application-of -External-Forces Greek chap, but humanity has learned the lack of wisdom of that approach several times over.

    --
    My other body is also not wearing any.
  5. The engineering story by dracken · · Score: 5, Informative

    Behind the Gravity Probe B is here and here . It is a fascinating read, esp. about the gyroscopes.

    "The four gyro rotors are made of fused quartz, fabricated to an extreme level of material homogeneity and then ground to the near-absolute sphericity (Figure 1). The spheres are round to within 40 atomic layers, which is proportionally equivalent to an Earth-sized sphere with surface height variations of only 16 feet...."

    "It's one thing to have a virtually perfect gyro rotor, but that alone does not provide the necessary performance for this experiment......The electric fields center the rotors to a few millionths of an inch. They did not perform the spinning up electrically, however. Instead, they directed a precise stream of helium gas, traveling at nearly Mach 1, at the rotors. It takes about half an hour for the rotor to reach full speed, and it loses less than 1% of this speed over 1000 years in the super-vacuum of the cavity."

  6. Neat by Starker_Kull · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think it's interesting - general relativity makes some very hard to verify but specific predictions. Many competing theories to it over the last 50 years have made predicitions that have, one by one, turned out to be false. Rotational frame dragging is (I think?) one of the last unverified ones. According to Newtonian gravitation & mechanics, the rotation or non-rotation of the earth should not affect an orbiting satellite a whit (ignoring "complications" like variable atmospheric drag based on rotation rate, different shape of earth at different rotation rates, etc.), or put more abstractly, the rotation of an axially symmetric mass distribution should not have anything to do with its gravitational field. General relatitivity does not agree with Newtonian mechanics here, which brings up yet another interesting question:

    Is there a difference between rotating reference frames and non-rotating reference frames because of the universe of matter around them, or is it self-generated? In other words, if we "removed" the entire universe except the rotating Earth, would rotation still have meaning? Could we still do an experiment and detect its rotation, or is that an artifact of the universe of matter around it that would vanish when it did? As far as I understand general relativity (and IANAP), it does not make a hypothesis one way or the other. Is the question meta-physical? Or is there some clever way to set up an experiment to actually tell?

    Sigh - sometimes, I wish I was a physicist!

  7. Re:*woooooosh* by ichin4 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The idea of relativity is that no frame of reference is "special". Working this out for frames that differ by a constant velocity is pretty straightforward, but the situation with respect to rotation isn't so straightforward. If you spin yourself around you will quickly find that there does seem to be a special frame that doesn't make you dizy, which we call the non-rotating frame. To know that you are spinning, you don't appear to have to measure your rotation relative to anything else.

    Einstein had the idea that really, rotation is relative, too, and this apparently special non-rotating frame is really just the frame in which you are not spinning relative to the other bodies in your region of space time. In other words, seen from a different region of the universe, maybe our region of the universe is spinning furiously, but we don't notice it because all the bodies near us are all spinning furiously together.

    When you work out the math in the context of general relativity, the implication is that, near a big spinning body, for you to feel like you are not spinning you actually needs to be spinning slightly relative to what would fell like not spinning far away from the body. The effect is called frame-dragging. This experiment tried to measure the frame-dragging effect of the Earth on some extremely precise gyroscopes in orbiting satelites.

  8. Re:*woooooosh* by munpfazy · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's no reason *not* to be confused by the article. It's a pretty subtle phenomenon, described in an astoundingly sloppy writeup. Hard to believe it took three people to write something which is neither complete nor coherent, and which doesn't even give you enough key words to search for more information.

    The Gravity Probe B homepage has a far better introduction to the experiment. (Go to "classroom" -> "story of GPB" for a concise intro.)
    http://einstein.stanford.edu/

    In short, general relativity predicts that a massive rotating object (like the earth) distorts the space around it in such a way that nearby objects that are locally at rest are actually rotating slightly when compared to distant stars. (Locally at rest means that, for example, if you put some guy in a box with any measurement apparatus he could imagine, his measurements would show that the box isn't rotating.) This doesn't happen in Newtonian physics, and Gravity Probe B should be able to measure it and compare it to what one predicts using GR.

    The effect is usually called "frame dragging," or the "Lense-Thirring Effect."