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U.S. Gets Taste of Own Patent Medicine

cheesedog writes "A few Andean countries have turned the tables on U.S. requests for more forceful expansion of patent law, requesting broader protection for indigenous plants and tribal uses of natural medicines. At first glance this seems like a win for these countries, but it is also a major braodening of the definition of what kinds of ideas can be locked away from the public in government-granted monopolies. As Right to Create notes: 'Let us hope that those involved in these negotiations, particularly those representing us in the U.S., see this for what it is: a de facto demonstration of how ridiculous our intellectual monopoly regime has become, and how insane our demands on the rest of the world's citizens are.'"

22 of 76 comments (clear)

  1. 404 by spot35 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nice, the linked article shows a 404. Here is another article about the subject

  2. Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by general_re · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The odds of this sort of IP protection being accepted worldwide: about zero. Anyone feel like sending a royalty payment to Peru each time you eat a potato? Didn't think so.

    Similarly, the odds of this causing some sort of moral crisis on the part of US and other Western governments: about zero. Like I said, let's wish for a pony while we're enjoying this rich, satisfying fantasy life.

    --
    ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
    1. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by 1001011010110101 · · Score: 2, Informative

      So, suddenly because someone send a researcher to the rain forest, to learn how indigenous people used some plants, they suddenly have exclusives right to the product of those plants, and you pretend that even them (i.e. the people that have used the plants forever) have to pay royalties? Its kind of odd, dont you think? If anyone has any rights to the medicinal application of the plant species, is the ones that have been using them for a long time, not the US that puts them into a plastic bottle and pattents it in your country (mostly because people can patent even a Turd shape over there).

    2. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by 1001011010110101 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Part of what the US is trying to force in most if not all of the *FTA partners, is for them to agree to your disfunctional patent system and IP protection.

    3. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by general_re · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's not what I asked. For a while, under this very patent system you object to, Bristol-Myers held a couple of patents on Taxol, before they were eventually invalidated. But even while they were still in force, that didn't stop anyone who wanted from going out and eating the bark of the Pacific Yew, or making the leaves into tea, or whatever folk remedy you care to think of. Object if you want, but at least try to ground objections in reality.

      --
      ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
    4. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by 1001011010110101 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My objections are not about the people drinking or smoking whatever herbs they want to, that wont change. They are about stealing knowledge from other cultures/sources and pretending to discover the wheel, and pretend to have some kind of special rights to exploit it over anyone else's.

    5. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by general_re · · Score: 2, Interesting
      They are about stealing knowledge from other cultures/sources and pretending to discover the wheel...

      If I observe you, a native tribesman, using some herb to cure toothaches, and I then extract and patent some new painkiller from the herb, how is that "stealing" knowledge from you?

      ...pretend[ing] to have some kind of special rights to exploit it over anyone else's.

      Ah, but don't you see? That's exactly what these countries are claiming for themselves. They're claiming that, because the potato came from Peru, Peru therefore should own a piece of everything that ever comes from the potato, because they have (or want, anyway) "some kind of special rights to exploit it over anyone else's". You've nailed the problem, but you have the wrong villain ;)

      --
      ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
    6. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by lambadomy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the point is that they're both villains. Just because someone knows to chew some indigenous bark or eat a potato to cure some ill doesn't mean they should get some rights to the cures created from knowledge they already had - something tells me that knowledge is kind of old. But the issue is whether or not some company that comes in and extracts the compound and either synthesizes it or has an efficient means of extraction should be able to patent the compound itself either. And the answer is no, no one should have a patent on the compound, not peru or the company. They can have a patent on their extraction or synthesis process, assuming it is novel, but anyone who wants to come up with a different way to make this compound should be able to.

    7. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Kind of like patenting genetic sequences?

    8. Re:Let's hope for a pony while we're at it... by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How's this (somewhat) logical reason then? Prior Art. The knowledge has existed for thousands of years. They didn't just figure out what it was for, it's been known for a long time. At least with genes, they are recently figuring out what does what.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
  3. what is this "braodening" by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Funny

    what is this "braodening" of which you speak ?

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  4. An idea by alexwcovington · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well, if you can patent genes and lifeforms... Why not just patent Gene Simmons?

    --
    (It's never too late to join the Renaissance)
  5. and US is going to say "who cares" by falcon5768 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Seriously, you think that the US is going to have a moral change of heart when we are the same people who for years placed our national seaboarder miles out into the atlantic and contested anyone who got inside of it while at the same time following the 3 mile rule for every other country despite protests from those companys.

    The US could give two shits sadly.

    --

    "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    1. Re:and US is going to say "who cares" by BlueStrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Seriously, you think that the US is going to have a moral change of heart when we are the same people who for years placed our national seaboarder miles out into the atlantic and contested anyone who got inside of it while at the same time following the 3 mile rule for every other country despite protests from those companys.

      The US could give two shits sadly."

      The U.S. stops and searches pretty much anyone it pleases in international waters, and not just within whatever limits it happens to set for its' own waters.

      AFAIK, the only ships it hesitates to pull this on are ships of governments that have enough military/naval force to pose a realistic threat of significant reprisal, and/or significant enough economic/political might to cause the U.S. damage.

      I guess that as far as freedom from U.S. boarding and search in international waters goes, you're as free as the number of carrier battle groups and submarines you can pony up when threatened makes you.

      To be fair though, other countries also play the same game with the ships of countries with significantly less might than themselves.

      The oceans have, to a greater or lesser extent, always been a no-mans' land where the rights a ship enjoys in open waters is directly related to how much power the country under which flag it happens to fly enjoys.

      When you're on an unarmed freighter or fishing trawler and you have a destroyer demanding you heave-to for boarding and search with it's guns and missiles locked onto your vessel, international law is a moot point.

      Especially if the only thing that happens if you're fired upon and sunk is a diplomatic letter of protest.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    2. Re:and US is going to say "who cares" by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You do know that pretty much every country does the same thing, advocating one set of limits for itself while following another for everyone else, generally resorting to narrow, sometimes hypocritical definitions, depending on their own interests?

      Please look at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/field s/2070.html and let me know how many of the open, standing disputes between states have to do with maritime limits? Or maybe http://www.oceanlaw.net/netpath/page8-mb2.htm ?

      Not to interrupt your little Anti-American rant, I mean, it's so trendy nowadays. Self-loathing is so satisfying, it's like moral masochism. It's like self-righteousness in a can!

      --
      -Styopa
    3. Re:and US is going to say "who cares" by lintocs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How on earth did a reference to maritime law warrant an "insightful" mod? Particularly an incorrect reference? The 1994 Law of the Sea secures territorial waters to 12 nautical miles, not three. There is an additional cause to allow an area of influence of an additional 12 nautical miles, for law/customs/immigration enforcement.

      Screw you, moderator scum!

  6. They don't have the $$$ to make this stick by max+born · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wish them the best of luck but unforntunately the purpose of the patent laws seems to be, not to promote the progress of science but to concentrate wealth. The drug companies, et el, have paid millions of dollars to congress to buy a system that keeps them in power. Sadly Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru don't have the kind of money it takes to control the situation in the long term.

  7. It's all about health, right? by kimvette · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Pharmaceutical companies only care about your health. Natural remedies are eeeevil and bad for you. Patented synthetic drugs made from extracts of those natural remedies are good. That which cannot be patented is bad! Don't you love the anti-herbal campaigns run by pharmaceutical companies, and now that there are medical studies which prove that at least some ages-old remedies actually work, they are now racing to patent them?

    Of course, if they can succeed in patenting things such as garlic, orange juice, cranberry juice, ecchinacea, and other foods which can cure some sicknesses that patented remedies can only control the symptoms of, and if they can patent herbs like St. John's Wort, Black cohosh, etc. then you will see pharmaceutical companies singing the praises of such things like revolutionary new cures for the cold, treatment of certain depressions for which prozac etc. are overkill, and black cohosh rather than conjugated horse urine for treatment of menopausal symptoms, all without negative side effects when taken in moderate amounts. You'll see herbal remedies and certain foods rise in prices and only be legally distributed by a certified/licenses pharmacist.

    Or perhaps I am just cynical. I'm sure they really do have the public good in mind, right? Right? I mean, certainly drugs which treat depression "but can cause heart failure certain individuals" or "can result in liver failure in certain individuals" and drugs which can control blood pressure "but side effects include glaucoma" is a good thing because they are patentable and real treatments of the cause of problems rather than controlling symptoms is bad for business.

    I'm all for patents for protecting legitimate inventions, but companies have gone too far with patents, and with the USPTO simply rubber-stamping every application to come through the door and leaving it up to the courts to sort out the mess, who wants to do business here in the US any more?

    What's up with patenting software? That is what copyright is for. You're fully protected, and you can trademark certain aspects of the look and feel of an app. Patents are not required. Besides, since the 1950s there has been plenty of prior art which should rule most software patents invalid anyhow. Heck, hypertext in its purest form has been around since analog computers, and prior to that in paper books.

    What's up with patenting the human genome? They innovated NOTHING. The human genome is either the product of billions of years of pure chance and accident, or the result of a design by "GOD" and there is nothing genetics companies are designing in the process, aside from designing the process and devices to actually map and manipulate the genome. Those processes and devices are certainly patentable, but the genome ought not to be as there is billions (or thousands, let's not get into that flame war, I'm including both theories here to avoid flamefests) of years' worth of prior art demonstrating that those companies have produced zilch.

    Am I veering off topic here? Not really, I'm just drawing some related (and unrelated) examples of how ridiculous the patent process has become, due in part to the employeee productivity quotas set at the USPTO, and due in part to laziness.

    A few years ago it was more difficult to obtain patent protection. A friend of mine invented a product related to automobiles and the USPTO rejected it because the clerk who received the application did not believe the invention would perform as claimed (since when is that the acid test for a patent?). The USPTO demanded that he produce other designs to prove that certain other things would not peform the intended function. He did so, persisted, and nearly $30K worth of prototypes later (not a lot of money for a large corp, but for a small self-funded proprietor it's a huge chunk of change) and independent testing labs proved his claim, they finally granted the patent. The clerk was certainly on his toes, but was a little too aggressive in enforcing the patent process, beca

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:It's all about health, right? by mavenguy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I don't have the background or time to express an opinion on the main question posed by this article but I do have some comments on some statements you've made:

      I'm just drawing some related (and unrelated) examples of how ridiculous the patent process has become, due in part to the employeee productivity quotas set at the USPTO, and due in part to laziness.
      Yep, production requirements as well as all sorts of deadlines has been a chronic problem for over the last 30 years, and management has tightened the screws even more over this period. In addition, it has been made harder to make prior art rejections due to court rulings requiring more explicit showings from the prior art references, and less ability of examiners to make reasonable inferences from those references, as was originally permitted. There may be instances of laziness, but most of the problem is management pressure for production and making dates. If you don't make the numbers you get an unsatisfactory rating and get shown the door.

      A friend of mine invented a product related to automobiles and the USPTO rejected it because the clerk who received the application did not believe the invention would perform as claimed (since when is that the acid test for a patent?)
      It's one of the "acid tests" for a patent, 35 USC 101, the key adjective being "useful." This is known in patent law as the "utility" requirement; the invention must actually work. This is the legal basis to reject claims for "perpetual motion" machines or "pyramid power" inventions. It's unfortunate that your friend had to go through all this expense to prove utility, but examiners are responsible to pass on this issue as part of examination. As a counter example, look at the case of the recently issued anti-gravity patent where this wasn't challenged. It would be great if this could be correctly determined each time, but it's not practical for a bureaucratic, production based system where even the limited art areas assigned to individual examiners can encompass many different actual areas in the "real world.
      Now companies are patenting story plots...
      Stay tuned, this one is only a published application; AFAIK it's hasn't received a first action yet.
      ...20-to-50-yr-old computer methodologies, and tons of other prior art which would be rejected outright by any patent clerk not only enforcing patent law and doing his job, but also possessing even the slightest amount of common sense.
      Well, chalk this up in some cases of examiners not doing their jobs within the constraints of the current PTO working environment, but most of the problem, as commented above, results from the lack of time available coupled with the requirement to have the prior art explicitly discuss why they are doing things, not just show them. All the common sense arguments in the world these days will be rejected by the courts (mainly the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, the de facto court making patent law given the paucity of Supreme Court decisions on these matters).
  8. WRITE TO POLITICIANS by olddotter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sadly I don't expect the US to make any useful or moral decisions. That is unless a bunch of congressmen (and women) think they will be voted out of office over the issue!

  9. Gold Mine! by corellon13 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I would love to be the country who can claim fire as its Intellectual Property! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, but it'll cost you should you use fire to light it.

    --
    Do what is right and let the consequence follow
  10. Re:indeed by iggymanz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    nothing to the table? What would the middle east or China be like, where would they be, without western money? Better yet, where will the arab lands be when the world moves on to alternate energy sources. Answer: They will be primative shit holes (or more accurately. even more primative shitholes), with their minds and bodies imprisoned.. At least those in Iraq have a chance to build a better government for themselves (compared to dictatorship they had). You also seem to think that those who choose to be a soldier, a warrior, for a living should be outraged they might be asked to go and fight & risk death at a young age somewhere. Soldiers fight, kill and destroy stuff, it's in the job description and company policy handbook.