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Building PCs - How do you Choose Your Components?
ATP asks: "It's been a few years since I built my current system by ordering parts from the cheapest vendors I could find. Everything went smoothly with very little research, and my system is still running great today. I'm now looking into building another desktop system, but I've become quickly overwhelmed by how complex components have become. In particular, motherboard/CPU compatibility are confusing (think: single/dual, socket 478/604/754/939/939pciExpress/940/LGA775, OS compatibility, memory types, etc). Is there a guide to the not-so-novice PC guru somewhere that would help me catch up on the developments in the last couple years?"
Check out what some of the big guns are doing. I'd start by visiting Intel's site. Even if you aren't an Intel fan, there is a ton of info on CPU's, memory, chipsets, etc. available at the site. Also check out what companies like Alienware are doing. They build for a "niche" market primarily - a high end niche market. Again, plenty of info. CNet and Toms' Hardware are good places to look, as are (or were last time I was there) the forums over at Directron.
Isn't that what http://tomshardware.com/ is [supposed to be]?
The first thing you need to decide is things like do you want a little computer (like a Shuttle) or something special (dual-cpu SLI) etc. The odder your request, the more your field is automatically narrowed down. The rest of this will apply, but I"ll assume you just want a normal (probably 1, maybe 2 CPU) board without SLI.
Start with the big one. Do you want Intel or AMD? I would go with AMD at this moment, but the choice is yours. So now that you know that, you eliminate a large chunk of stuff. So lets say you want AMD (same basic things for Intel).
Do you want dual processor (NOT CORE, PROCESSOR). If you want multiple sockets (dual rules, but you could get the same benefit with a dual core these days). If you do, that will severely limit your chipset choices and motherboard choices (because most dual-cpu boards are designed for servers). So by reading articles on the CPU you want, you can find out which chipsets support it. Make sure to future-proof. Even if you don't want a dual-core Athlon 64 today, get a chipset that would support it. This will cut down your chipset choices further.
Then look up the chipsets (with reviews of those). These will let you see the features to find something you'd really like that would narrow things down (say SLI as only a few chipsets support that). That way you can find the chipset you want (or at least a list of those you DON'T want).
Now you know your processor type, and a chipset (or small list). Now if want SLI then based on your graphics brand many of these decisions are made for you. With this information you can go out looking various motherboard manufacturers' sites looking for boards that have what you want (or close to it). From here you read reviews and narrow things down.
I've stopped following all this stuff closely as I moved to laptops and then Mac (neither of which can you build your own). I'd say the most important thing would be the processor right now. You need to decide how much you want this system. Because while there are always new revisions coming out every few months, we are about to see some big changes. Intel is going to release their new chips (Yonah?) based on the Pentium M for the desktop. AMD will be moving to a new socket soon to enable them to use DDR2. So you may want to wait. On the other hand, the new Intel processor might not be enough for you wait, and you may see DDR as just fine (because when they first hit the street, the new CPUs and boards will be expensive and might not be worth it to you).
You've got homework to do, but if you just go looking at motherboards for features you like and try to decide the other factors (SLI, CPU, memory, etc) based on that you can be easily overwhelmed at one manufacturer's site.
I hope this helps. This is the process that I went through every time I built a computer, but like I said I used to keep up with this stuff much more than it sounds like you do (I'm now where you seem to be: I know some general stuff but I'd need a bunch of research before even starting to look at parts to buy).
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
These sites might be of assistance:
www.anandtech.com
www.sharkyextreme.com
www.lostcircuits.com
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
I had the same problem with my new iBook when i first got it. Turns out, Fn-Delete does backspace and Sidetrack (http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/) will help with the right click issue.
First, choose a mobo/cpu combo.
Second, buy compatible RAM. (The mobo determines what you need to buy.) Get at least 1GB. Always get your RAM such that you will have two (or four) identical DIMMs. Get the fastest RAM that your mobo can handle. Use the manufacturer's website to determine that. For most AMD systems, this will PC3200 DDR SDRAM. For most (new) Intel mobos, this will be some type of DDR2. DDR2 and DDR have nothing to do with dual-channel memory. That is about whether you have two (or four) identical DIMMs plugged into a dual-channel mobo, in the right slots (one of each color, on most mobos).
Third, grab a hard drive. Look for perfomance rather than just size. Go with 7200RPM at a minimum. SATA is a plus. Make sure the cahce is good and large. 8MB minimum, 16MB is better. If you get 10000RPM or higher, you'll need an HD cooler, though it's a good thing for the slower HDs as well. Don't buy the cooler with the HD, though; you'll find them cheaper elsewhere usually.
Forth, the CD/DVD drive. Get what you'll need. Go with Plextor or Yamaha if you want it good.
Fifth, the power supply(PSU). I only put this fifth because its such a no-brainer, not because it's not important. Get a GOOD PSU with a medium to high wattage. I recommend an Akasa 460W at a minimum and Akasa 650W if you want the best. DO NOT SPEND LESS THAN $60 ON A PSU. DO NOT USE A PSU WITH THAT CAME WITH A CASE. Seriously. Those cheap 450W PSUs you see out there for $20 suck balls. Even if they can handle the wattage your system requires (doubtful as most have inflated stats), they won't be able to handle it well. Bad power is worse than no power, much worse. Bad power WILL cause your system to be very unstable for no apparent reason. If you have that computer with every individual piece of hardware working fine but you still get random crashes and instabilities, its the PSU. Trust me, the PSU is the most important part of your system. If you cheap out, you will be making your system suck donkey for no good reason. Get a good a PSU. If in doubt about what's good, go to Hexus.net. They had a huge roundup of PSUs that they reviewed. Trust them if you don't trust me. But seriously, I can't stress this enough, the PSU is the absolute most important part of your computer purchase and you should NEVER even think of using a shitty, cheapass one. No matter what.
Sixth, the graphics card. This is important. Think about what you want to do and then decide what you want. Use reviews to get a good idea of what's good. Just make sure you get the AGP version if you bought an AGP mobo and the PCI-E version if you got a PCI-E mobo. One will always be more expensive than the other but which one is a crapshoot. For games, Geforce 6800GT or ATI Radeon X800 are minimums. 256MB graphics RAM is also a minimum.
Seventh, the least important aspect of the computer other than the monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers: the case. When you buy a case, you only need to worry about a few things. First, don't get one with a PSU built-in (unless you plan on throwing it away or selling it to someone less informed); those PSUs invariably suck. Second, make sure that it can handle full-ATX if you bought a full-ATX mobo. Otherwise, its all about looks.
Eighth, fans. Buy some fans to keep your system cool. You don't need to worry so much about the processor fan; the ones that come with them are usually fine. But you do need to get some case fans; probably 3 or 4, at least two. Just make sure that you have more (or the same as) fans pointing inside your case than fans pointing out. It helps keep dust down and keeps your system cooler. Be sure that the fans are placed so that air flows from the front to back; your PSU's fan will push air out of the back of your computer too.
Ninth, the rest. These are the least important. Get whatever monitor you can afford. Get the cheapest keyboard that your willing to have on your desk. Get an IR mouse (don't bother with ball mice; they aren't any cheaper). Speakers are a matter of preference. Games
Three other points I would add:
1. All the praise of Tom's Hardware Guide is absolutely true.
2. Analog sources can be good... flip through a few Computer Shopper magazines and the Consumer Reports Buyer's Guide before making significant purchases.
3. Before you spend a dime, run the numbers and figure out whether or not building it yourself is really worth it. Is there a config you want that Dell doesn't offer? How does price compare to an off-the-shelf solution? Would you prefer a single point of contact for repair issues or are you comfortable dealing with multiple vendors? Depending on what you need it to do, a DIY solution might very well be better, faster, and cheaper... just check first.
Also, just in case, this is solely my opinion and not necessarily the opinion of my employer.
Vanya's Law: "In any culture without irony, fart jokes will be the highest form of humor."
I used to shop through pricewatch, until I dealt with the skeeziest dealers on the planet, that made me stop for good. I think I had three really really really bad experiences with their sh*tty dealers, no more.
I stick with the high-quality vendors such as:
NewEgg.com - ZipZoomFly.com - MonarchComputer.com - ClubIT.com
To find the cream-of-the-crop vendors, use: ResellerRatings.com
Also check out the Hot Deals sections of forums (read the FAQ, before you post!)
www.hardforum.com
forums.anandtech.com
it's a sig, wtf?
Note: highly personal opinions are to follow, but they are the result of building lots of my own computers and fixing way more for other people. Use this list as a guideline to get you started and narrow down from there.
:)
First, processors. Intel highly overcharged everyone for years until AMD starting giving them some competition. For that reason alone I buy AMD CPUs exclusively - but they just happen to be the best in most every category currently anyway. Get a 64bit dual core processor, let price decide which one. Get the retail version with a fan and a better warranty.
Motherboard - narrow down by chipset first looking for stability in the drivers etc. Forums can help you a lot here. My advice is go with a motherboard with an Nvidia chipset - they seem to have less bugs and better drivers than VIA. Besides I will be recommending an Nvidia video card and that just helps on the compatibility front. If you are going all new then get a motherboard with PCIe video card slots instead of AGP. Don't get SLI (dual video cards) unless you are really into games and want to spend a lot of money on this.
Next go find a good vendor, (newegg.com), that's as important as any thing else. Check them out on resellerratings.com - look at their satisfaction ratings from when people need to do returns; (newegg.com) that will tell you the most. Or just go to newegg.com. They are the best general vendor out there (newegg.com) with the best customer service, but a little bit pricey because of it. (newegg.com)
From that vendor get the list of motherboards that meet the goals above, and research those boards on the forums (pcper.com) and find one that people are not having trouble with. Don't worry about the absolute fastest performance, the difference between brands is usually negligible. Asus motherboards are usually a safe bet.
Video card - get the best Nvidia card your budget will allow. Don't even think about ATI. Buggy cards, buggy drivers, have been that way for years. ATI's idea of adding stability to their drivers is to add a utility that auto-restarts them when they crash. Make sure that the type of video card matches the video card slot on the motherboard - AGP vs. PCIe.
Memory - get name brand - Corsair, Crucial or Kingston all make me happy.
HD - get Western Digital (one with a 5 year warranty) or Seagate - you can check storagereview.com for specifics.
Don't get a cheap power supply - either buy one separately or get a good name brand case with a power supply - antech etc. There are some good power supply reviews around.
Get nice interface items - keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor. Those items really control how you interact with your computer and are usually overlooked. Go to circuit city or something and try different ones, find out what you like. Personally I go for the Microsoft Natural Pro keyboards and 5 button laser mouse.
DVD drives, Plextor.is usually a safe bet.
That's it!
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
As someone else has mentioned, the ars system guides are excellent. They build several different types of system and explain the trade-offs they make very nicely.
I also happen to really like Dan Bernstein's advice, especially for a good *BSD desktop box. Like Ars, Dan does an excellent job explaining why he chose what he did.
The ars guides are usually almost current. DJB's is not as current. But look at them for the explanations, even if you want newer components. You can apply their advice to the in depth discussions of particular components you'll find at places like Tom's, HardOCP, AnandTech, etc.
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That said, are you sure you want to build your own PC? I built my own for years but finally got tired of it. At a certain point I decided the time wasn't worth it, and I wanted to be able to call the manufacturer if something went wrong and say "fix it".
I bought a laptop (Dell) and never regretted that I didn't build another computer. When things happened, I could call dell about it instead of searching forms on the internet to try to diagnose whatever odd thing might happen. When the capacitors on my motherboard died, I had no one to turn to. It took me forever to figure out what it was, and then I had to contact the motherboard manufacturer and get it fixed at my own cost then rebuild it myself and it was all a huge hassle that I didn't have time for at the time. I would have loved to call up Dell and say "fix it" (which I have done for a motherboard problem in a very old dell years ago) and have them come over and fix it fast.
I later switched to the Mac which has been even more hassle free than with my Dell laptop (which was very nice).
Building your own computer is nice and if you want something very special you practically have to (when I did it I wanted a dually rig which were only available pre-built in servers at the time). But if you are just building it to say "I built it" and you have done it before, you may want to skip it. It often isn't worth it any more. When you can buy a very nice Dell for $300 or less, many of the arguments for building your own are gone.
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad I built my own. I wish more people would for the experience and understanding. But if you have done it, you should think long and hard about if this is what you want for the next few years or if you want something that is manufacturer supported. I don't know how old you are or how long you have been building computers, but at a certain point you'll probably begin to think like me and my post's parent.
You may see me build a special little weird box in a few years to play with, but for an every day computer, I'll buy one.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
You really just have be willing to dive in and soak it all up. Search for FAQs and read forums - there are probably some general and specific guides that are useful, and there are helpful, knowledgeable people out there.
Another good thing to do is to read articles and reviews on tech sites and window-shop on online stores that sell pre-built rigs to get an idea of what kinds of components are being put in various computers these days. Then, shop around to see what deals are out there and be sure to read reviews of specific components. Most importantly, SEARCH FORUMS (via Google) to see if people have problems with a given component -- I can't stress this enough! My friends and I have been both bitten by buying a compnent without researching it first, and saved by reading people's complaints about it before buying.
Finally, if you have money don't be afraid to just dive in and buy a bunch of parts. If you're really lost, you're best of getting them from a local parts retailer so you can exchange out anything you accidentally buy that turns out to be incompatible with the rest of your parts.
If you can't afford to screw up, I'd recommend finding a online store that lets you build a custom system from parts on their site. They usually make sure you can only pick combos that will work, and the price will be better than a totally shrinkwrapped system from a major retailer. You can also then swap out parts in the system as you learn more.
Either way you go, you'll need to keep at it for a few years before you really know your stuff. Eventually you'll have preferences for brands and price ranges on everything, a list of regular sites and/or stores to get parts from, and hangouts for news, reviews and discussion of components and issues with them.
Building systems for friends and family (as long as you're willing to do follow up support) is also a good way to figure out what's good and what isn't without wasting your own money >:D
Here are some personal recommendations based on a decade or two of experience (ramble alert!):
- Stay away from VIA for motherboard chipsets if you decide to build an AMD-based system. They're better these days, but I've been burned repeatedly over the last half dozen years. In fact, stay away from everyone but Intel or nVidia; nVidia is now my mobo chipset manufacturer of choice, despite dumping the awesome SoundStorm chipset from their newer mobo chipsets (good thing there are DDL PCI cards out now, but Realtek onboard sound is respectable too these days)
- You get what you pay for with power supplies (up to a point of course). Don't buy that $25 550 Watt power supply because it'll probably blow out in 6 months or the first time it hits anything near 550 Watts - whichever comes first.
- newegg.com is an awesome online parts retailer. If you're into modding, xoxide.com and directron.com are worth a look, but beware of overpriced items.
- Don't believe anything that store clerks/sales reps tell you. If you're looking at something in a retail store, go home and research it first and then go back and buy it if you're still interested. Note that you can usually get better deals online, but local retailers are good in a pinch if you need something right away.
- For those in the Puget Sound area: Fry's is the bomb, and CompuCare is decent. PC Club is so-so. Stay away from CompUSA unless you're really desperate! And never, EVER buy anything computer-related at OfficeWhatever/Staples unless it's printer or scanner related - they're overpriced on everything.
- Netgear makes excellent network hardware, although I'm in love with the WRT54G/GS (but not the current on-the-shelf versions, which have been neutered) wireless routers due to their ability to run homebrew Linux-based firmware.
- 64-bit CPUs and PCI Express motherboards & video cards are now worth buying. I plan to upgrade from my 32-bit, AGP 8x system early next year at the latest.
- nVidia and ATI are neck-and-neck in the video card business right now. Stay away from All-In-Wonde
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
... the tomshardware forums are great for specing a system togeather with feedback about the components.
I'd highly suggest an
AMD 3500+ on an ASUS A8N-SLI 32X Deluxe Motherboard.
This gives you pretty good options for the future-- processor upgrades from single core to duel core, single video card to duel video card, plenty of pci slots, sata, usb, firewire, etc.
I've been extremely happy with my older a8n-sli.
Shadus
PCI-X is just a faster PCI, it is a dead end. PCIe (PCI express) is where the future is. It is a new serial interface.
If you're using a Powerbook, the Control key gives you access to all the traditional "right click" functions. I generally don't need it when I'm using my iBook, but it gets used extensively when I run Office v.X.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Too true.
I built an AMD setup about 4-5 years back. My CPU is an 800MHz Duron, old Socket A. Until a couple of months ago, AMD were still selling CPUs that would fit old Socket A. During that time, the number of different Intel sockets used has been well into the teens. Your chances of getting a replacement Intel CPU should your old one fail? Close to zero. Your chances of getting a better fan for an older Intel CPU if you get tired of the noise? Close to zero. Both of these, it's "replace-the-mobo" time, at a cost of an extra hundred quid on top of whatever the CPU cost.
So for me, it's AMD all the way, and it'll continue to be unless AMD completely lose the plot at some point in the future.
Grab.